Conquer Club

do people do anything that doesn't benefit themselves in some way ?

my strong answer is no...
benefits of those ppl may have may very well be explicit or hidden, but there still should be benefits/selfish reasons for one doing anything and everything imo.
what is it we call those who does things for no good reason ? (good = selfish on this context)
imo, in everything ppl do there is something those ppl think good for them then why they do...
even vengence, whoever does a thing to take vengence, doesnt s/he do it for his/her own short term good ?


reason of this subject/discussion is;
very well, i dont accept/value any of saying one does a thing for not any selfish reason, i dont any believe in this.
to me,
everyone (every creature) has a selfish reason, hidden or explicit, big or small, but there is a selfish reason for doing any and every particular thing.
these selfish reasons may come in thousands ways, pride, satisfaction, feeding, needs to survive, etc...can be abstract or concrete.

In my opinion the only Force that could push you to do things that doesn't benefits you is love.

Does creating this off topic thread and posting it in GD benefit you HardAttack ?

my strong answer is no...

jefjef wrote:Does creating this off topic thread and posting it in GD benefit you HardAttack ?

my strong answer is no...

actually, sure there is a benefit in it m8, but implicit one though which i do not prefer to share what it is.
what questionable is, the thing i call it i have got benefit from, if it is objective or subjective.

I really enjoy bacon. I will do all sorts of illegal things for bacon. But bacon isn't good for me. So yes, I do things that don't benefit me.

quod erat demonstratum.

danryan wrote:I really enjoy bacon. I will do all sorts of illegal things for bacon. But bacon isn't good for me. So yes, I do things that don't benefit me.

quod erat demonstratum.

effect of stress over human life, lately had been shown to be one of major parameter over aging...
eating bacon from good/bad fat bacon has point of view, it might not be very healthy, on the other hand eating it makes you happy and doesnt kill your stress (eating chocolate is not healty from fat point of view but it is from how it causes secretion of some hormones that makes human relax/happy...out of these scientific says, my point is very much over goes to why we do things as humans) ?
there should be some benefit in it, if there was not, why you wud do everything to have it ?

for example, why do we drive our cars faster than allowed limits ? especially when we are not in hurry ?
why do have alcohol ? why do have sex if we do not intend to breed ?

skillfull wrote:In my opinion the only Force that could push you to do things that doesn't benefits you is love.

v.good point mate...

jefjef wrote:Does creating this off topic thread and posting it in GD benefit you HardAttack ?

my strong answer is no...

+1

Lx

No, or at least I can't think of any counter-examples.

It's a reason why altruism doesn't exist, or that no one can verify if someone's being 100% altruistic, thus receiving 0% in self-interest, which means no benefits toward oneself.

Mr HA am going to attempt to relate this to CC as I believe was your intent though not directly addressed in your role as OP or thread creator. Would hate to see this moved to off topic and a more mono-brow respondent group.

Do people act selfishly in all their actions on CC? Let me postulate on one of the most important things for me on the site. Clans

I have been a member of 4clans now.
Founding co leader of Dark Defenders
Member of Imperial Britain
Helped make BoFM a strong competitive force for some time
Recently moved to the little island of Atlantis

Looking objectively at my participation in clans, I would have to say that my motivations have largely been selfish. I would like to think that I would invest time and energy in helping other members of my clan, promoting the clans interests and profile and other duties/tasks for zero return. I don't think that is the case though. I am a member of clan because of the net benefits.
- Access to quality account sitters
- Experienced team mates for - advice, medal hunting, point accumulation
- Commardary
- Add on benefits such as sigs, avatar pics, etc
All these benefits are why I'm in a clan. I am selfish I guess.

Everything you do in life you do for or because of one selfish reason. Pride. If its good or bad is up to you because its subjective in the end. You do everything out of pride right? You help some one not because it was the nice thing to do but because it is your pride to be the one to help. That feeling of satisfaction for ones own good or bad deed is pride. It is impossible to escape so why fight it because in the end you are just fighting it for your pride.

There is speculation into whether the decisions we make as an individual are at least to a degree based on how said action benefits us as an organism, if they find a way to prove (albeit I think the evidence is ample through observation) this to be true I would expect it to be an old mechanism to help us as a species and as an individual organism take advantage of situations for the reasons of survival. Even though nowadays survival is related to making money and stuff like that so we can for example afford housing or food etc unlike thousands of years ago where that would entail strenght and adaptability to an environment, however the base instinct remains.

I also find it interesting that even selfless acts from people do have a benefit to the individual, for example taking part in charity; you may get a sense of achievement and knowing that your work is helping the unfortunate, albeit it's a subtle and psychological benefit but in the end a benefit none the less.

Have you fall in love HA?

josko.ri wrote:Have you fall in love HA?

Damn, this got me. I chortled.

With himself, perhaps.

josko.ri wrote:Have you fall in love HA?

lol

Without appealing to controversial metaphysics, one might find it beneficial to be good simply based on pragmatism. This decision to be good is ultimately an application of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. If everyone valued others’ welfare inasmuch as they value their own, then everyone would share the greatest total benefit. If only some valued others while others were selfish, then the latter group would receive the greatest personal benefits, while the former would be greatly disadvantaged. Finally, if all parties do not value others, then everyone loses.

Are you one to hope for the greatest benefit for all parties involved? Or are you one hoping to have the greatest personal payoff while also risking the greatest loss? If one subscribes to the former group, then that is a reason to be good.

Therefore, if one decides to be good, it need not be for moral reasons. One need not be selfless to genuinely decide to be good. One can be good out of a totally selfish desire to have similar good behavior be returned to oneself by others.

danryan wrote:I really enjoy bacon. I will do all sorts of illegal things for bacon. But bacon isn't good for me. So yes, I do things that don't benefit me.

quod erat demonstratum.

quod erat demonstrandum
learn latin if you are to quote it :p

anyhow, to answer your question. id say yes. i do believe that people are essentially good. but the real answer here is, is this the realistic, or philosophical question? if its realistic, its impossible to answer. lets say you do a good deed. obvious answer is you have done it, so youd feel good. ofc you have done it because of that. for example, if Bogan is thirsty beyond belief, i will give him some water to drink and i will feel good because ive helped someone. now, if Bogan is horny, i will not catch a goat for him, mostly because my morality is different then his and i find fucking a goat disgusting. realistically, there is no action that anyone takes that will leave him indifferent. you will either feel good or bad because of it, and ofc everyone will chose good... i even think Hitler felt pretty darn good while killing all those people...


now, if question is philosophical, then answer is what you believe. if you can do something which will not affect you in any way, but will affect others, i think people would not chose nor good nor bad, but actually chose to do nothing, because why would you do anything that doesnt affect you in any way? why kids jump? because it makes them happy. primal instinct will prevail all the time. and if something doesnt affect you, there is no primal instinct

freakns wrote:quod erat demonstrandum
learn latin if you are to quote it :p

Funnily enough I am learning it with my kids right now. Needless to say so far it's a barrel of laughs.

Humans are inherently bad. When they do help someone, it's not purely to be helpful. Possibly it's to make themselves look good to a friend, or even as a bartering chip for a favour later in life. Sometimes, it would be so they could satisfy themselves when they felt like they needed to do some good. The only people who will ever do something purely for the benefit of others is when they are ignorant to the situation.

danryan wrote:

josko.ri wrote:Have you fall in love HA?

Damn, this got me. I chortled.

With himself, perhaps.

I will add to the wisdom of Dan "the goat whisperer" Ryan. On the public record for accuracies sake, HA is officially in love with his right hand.

nàme wrote:Humans are inherently bad. When they do help someone, it's not purely to be helpful. Possibly it's to make themselves look good to a friend, or even as a bartering chip for a favour later in life. Sometimes, it would be so they could satisfy themselves when they felt like they needed to do some good. The only people who will ever do something purely for the benefit of others is when they are ignorant to the situation.

So feeling an urge to do good for others is bad if the act is mutually beneficial?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nàme wrote:Humans are inherently bad. When they do help someone, it's not purely to be helpful. Possibly it's to make themselves look good to a friend, or even as a bartering chip for a favour later in life. Sometimes, it would be so they could satisfy themselves when they felt like they needed to do some good. The only people who will ever do something purely for the benefit of others is when they are ignorant to the situation.

So feeling an urge to do good for others is bad if the act is mutually beneficial?

Not at all. You can't just donate to charity and tell everyone you did it. You're not donating to help the cause, you're donating to make yourself look like a saint.

Or lets say someone is feeling bad for something they did and they help an old man cross the street. Again, it's just to make you hate yourself less. It wasn't to help him cross a street.

nàme wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nàme wrote:Humans are inherently bad. When they do help someone, it's not purely to be helpful. Possibly it's to make themselves look good to a friend, or even as a bartering chip for a favour later in life. Sometimes, it would be so they could satisfy themselves when they felt like they needed to do some good. The only people who will ever do something purely for the benefit of others is when they are ignorant to the situation.

So feeling an urge to do good for others is bad if the act is mutually beneficial?

Not at all. You can't just donate to charity and tell everyone you did it. You're not donating to help the cause, you're donating to make yourself look like a saint.

Or lets say someone is feeling bad for something they did and they help an old man cross the street. Again, it's just to make you hate yourself less. It wasn't to help him cross a street.

Are you just looking for reactions or are you really that narrow-minded?

There are always two sides to a story, an action, a decision, etc.

Lx

nàme wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

nàme wrote:Humans are inherently bad. When they do help someone, it's not purely to be helpful. Possibly it's to make themselves look good to a friend, or even as a bartering chip for a favour later in life. Sometimes, it would be so they could satisfy themselves when they felt like they needed to do some good. The only people who will ever do something purely for the benefit of others is when they are ignorant to the situation.

So feeling an urge to do good for others is bad if the act is mutually beneficial?

Not at all. You can't just donate to charity and tell everyone you did it. You're not donating to help the cause, you're donating to make yourself look like a saint.

Or lets say someone is feeling bad for something they did and they help an old man cross the street. Again, it's just to make you hate yourself less. It wasn't to help him cross a street.

so, you think most people donate to charity and then talk about it?
never in my life ive talked about donating anything to charity... by this there is no way you can know weather or not i have donate anything...
also, famous people telling on TV they have donate something, they do that mostly not to present themselves as saints, but to urge others to donate too... i sure they feel good about what they did, but there is nothing wrong with feeling good

HardAttack wrote:

skillfull wrote:In my opinion the only Force that could push you to do things that doesn't benefits you is love.

v.good point mate...

empathy
sympathy
honor

Might also make a person sacrifice for the benefit of others.