Conquer Club

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:51 am**

NY Times - Manning Sentenced to 35 Years for Leaking Government Secrets

The judge’s decision to impose a 35-year sentence roughly split the difference between what the prosecution had requested — 60 years — and the 20 years that Private Manning had exposed himself to when he pleaded guilty to a lesser version of the charges he was facing before the trial began. Under the military system, convicts are eligible for parole after serving a third of their sentences, and Private Manning is receiving 1,294 days credit — a little more than three years — for time already in custody and for a 112-day period in which the judge ruled he was mistreated during pretrial confinement.

By some estimates, he may be available for parole after 8 or so years.

--Andy

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:11 pm**

He's already spent enough time locked up, frankly. So much for the right to a speedy trial. That he's sitting in prison while the war criminals he exposed remain uncharged is disgusting.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:58 pm**

>>The materials that Private Manning gave to WikiLeaks included a video taken during an American helicopter attack in Baghdad in 2007 in which civilians were killed, including two journalists. He also gave WikiLeaks some 250,000 diplomatic cables, dossiers of detainees being imprisoned without trial at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and hundreds of thousands of incident reports from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. <<

so he was sentence to 35 years prison, because he reveal ,how US army killing civilians???? Unbelievable,, instead that all people who cover all this war crimes, be arrested and put on trial, they arrested Maning,, only because he show to all people ,how US handle with Civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.
And US say that China are undemocratic country.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:04 pm**

I am glad this topic lured Qwert out! It seemed like a given, but good to see confirmation nonetheless.

--Andy

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:45 pm**

I'm glad his sentence is as "light" as it is and that the possibility of parole is there. I feared the government would lock him up, throw away the key and only a presidential pardon would release him at some point in the future.

There are no clean wars, so the info isn't shocking, but the exposed documents do create dialogues and accountability that would never occur without Bradley Manning.

It isn't about democracy Qwert, but it does expose the ugly side of diplomacy
and the heavy handed bungling of governments who like to claim the higher
moral ground with the way they conduct business.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:55 pm**

Manning apologized, which means he admits he did wrong. Just a pawn, not a true believer. In the end, a sell out.

Snowden is more like Rorschach

Manning is more like Two-Face

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:22 pm**

35 years is a damn long time.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:19 pm**

Phatscotty wrote:Manning apologized, which means he admits he did wrong. Just a pawn, not a true believer. In the end, a sell out.

Snowden is more like Rorschach

Manning is more like Two-Face

Had Manning maintained that nothing he had done was wrong he would have been imprisoned for even longer. He didn't need to martyr himself further with absolutely nothing to be gained for it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:38 pm**

Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Manning apologized, which means he admits he did wrong. Just a pawn, not a true believer. In the end, a sell out.

Snowden is more like Rorschach

Manning is more like Two-Face

Had Manning maintained that nothing he had done was wrong he would have been imprisoned for even longer. He didn't need to martyr himself further with absolutely nothing to be gained for it.

How could he have passed up the possibility of obtaining Phatscotty's undying admiration?

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:39 pm**

oVo wrote:I'm glad his sentence is as "light" as it is and that the possibility of parole is there. I feared the government would lock him up, throw away the key and only a presidential pardon would release him at some point in the future.

There are no clean wars, so the info isn't shocking, but the exposed documents do create dialogues and accountability that would never occur without Bradley Manning.

It isn't about democracy Qwert, but it does expose the ugly side of diplomacy
and the heavy handed bungling of governments who like to claim the higher
moral ground with the way they conduct business.

What accountability?

(Just asking. I haven't followed the story too closely, so I'm not sure if anyone was held accountable).

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:00 pm**

I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:19 pm**

Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:33 pm**

Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:37 am**

Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Detailings of multiple instances of civilian casualties that were covered up: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/25/afghanistan-civilian-deaths-rules-engagement

Suicide bomb goes off, marines fire indiscriminately on everyone in the vicinity as they retreat, photographer associated with the Associated Press is threatened: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/26/afghanistan-war-logs-us-marines

Military contractors soliciting child prostitutes: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/02/foreign-contractors-hired-dancing-boys

These are a handful of examples. I haven't gone through all of the leaked documents myself, but there's obviously a lot more where that came from.

Edit: Oh, and obviously the Collateral Murder video.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:31 am**

Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Scott. He provided verification. That is something usually beyond what you require from your analytical approach.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:14 am**

should of been hung for treason,why waste the tax payers money to keep this scum bag in jail

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:26 am**

Karel, here is something right up your alley:

NY Times:

One day after being sentenced to 35 years in prison for leaking vast archives of secret government files to WikiLeaks, Pfc. Bradley Manning said Thursday that he is female and wants to be known as Chelsea.

In a statement read on the “Today” show during an appearance by his defense lawyer, David E. Coombs, Private Manning said he had felt that he was female since childhood, a fact that was discussed during his court-martial.

“As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me,” the statement said. “I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition.”

The statement went on to request that Private Manning’s supporters “refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility).” It was signed, “Chelsea Manning.”

Mr. Coombs said Private Manning waited to speak publicly about his gender identity until after sentencing.

Private Manning’s decision to live as a woman raises questions of how the Army prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., where he will be held, will respond. A spokeswoman for the prison recently told Courthouse News that the prison does not provide hormone therapy or gender-reassignment surgery. As is the case for all soldiers, transgender inmates are only eligible for psychiatric care, she said.

Mr. Coombs acknowledged as much on “Today.” He said that his client had not signaled an interest in gender-reassignment surgery, but that he was hopeful that Fort Leavenworth would “do the right thing” and provide hormone therapy. Such therapeutic regimens can help people with male physical features turn those features more feminine.

Mr. Coombs said that if the military did not provide hormone therapy willingly, “then I’m going to do everything in my power to make sure they are forced to do so.”

...

--Andy

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:28 am**

saw that on the news and he should have all his request denied.We should be spending 1 penny more on him

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:10 pm**

karel wrote:should of been hung for treason,why waste the tax payers money to keep this scum bag in jail

He was found not guilty of the most serious crime of "giving aid to the enemy". So if he's not guilty of that, how can he be hung for treason when the main point to prove treason is that aid has to be given to the enemy?

Treason is very clearly defined in Article III, Section 3 in the US Constitution. You ignoring the Constitution would be said by some as a form of Treason. Are you a traitor to the Constitution of the United States, karel?

Or is it that you just don't understand it?

Did you know that not a single Confederate soldier, officer or politician was tried for treason after the Civil War? Not a one, though a few were indicted, but received amnesty. Did Bradley Manning do something worse than waging actual war against the United States like the Confederate States of America did?
Even the Americans who have been captured on the field of battle in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan, and are being held in Club Gitmo, haven't been charged with Treason. And some of them have actually killed US military troops. Was Bradley Manning's crimes worse than theirs?

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:11 pm**

karel wrote:should of been hung for treason,why waste the tax payers money to keep this scum bag in jail

How enlightening your post has been karel. Why don't you tell us about the rest of the traitors that should be executed? How about we start with everyone that was upset when they saw the collateral murder video?

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:18 pm**

Frigidus wrote:How enlightening your post has been karel. Why don't you tell us about the rest of the traitors that should be executed? How about we start with everyone that was upset when they saw the collateral murder video?

To be fair, Frigidus, that particular video is misleading in a lot of ways. It was edited, the context was ignored or not known about by most. Once the whole story got out, one can easily understand how such a thing could happen. It's one of those things that unfortunately happen in war and in combat zones.

It doesn't make it any better for those killed and maimed, but at least people can understand better how and why it happened.
(You are talking about the video where the helicopter shot and killed a news reporter, group of people with the reporter and his camera man, and the van which came soon after and had a child in it? If so, then there is a lot more to that story than you may be aware.)

It was never a case of "Oh, there are some non combatants, lets gun em down!" on the part of the strike helicopter pilots. Far from it actually. It was a mistake, and an understandable mistake at that given all the circumstances and considering this had been in a combat zone.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:54 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Scott. He provided verification. That is something usually beyond what you require from your analytical approach.

I never needed verification. I am not so jaded as to think the things listed by FRigi did not occur, do not occur, and have not occurred since the beginning of time by all of humanity at all places on the earth.

Only those who turn a blind eye to the reality of war need verification.

My analytical approach to the verification is "no duh..."

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:55 pm**

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Scott. He provided verification. That is something usually beyond what you require from your analytical approach.

I never needed verification.

That explains a lot.

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:57 pm**

btw, you guys need to start referring to Bradley Manning as Chelsae Manning. No more him or he, it's her or she.

Bradlay Manning is a trans-sexual

Posted: **Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:58 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I'd also like to just ask...what exactly did Bradley Manning accomplish?

He exposed an unpunished war crime and details of a system that regularly engages in crimes against humanity, both of which are being committed in our name. The American people deserve to know what their government is up to.

What is it the American people did not know the government was up to, as far as being at war...

Scott. He provided verification. That is something usually beyond what you require from your analytical approach.

I never needed verification.

That explains a lot.

If you look at the part you deleted, it means one does not need verification for something one already knows.

Don't go Woodruff.

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