Some observers see American academia as a bastion of leftist groupthink that indoctrinates students and silences conservative voices. Others see a protected enclave that naturally produces free-thinking, progressive intellectuals. Both views are self-serving, says Neil Gross, but neither is correct. Why Are Professors Liberal and Why Do Conservatives Care? explains how academic liberalism became a self-reproducing phenomenon, and why Americans on both the left and right should take notice.
Academia employs a higher percentage of liberals than nearly any other profession. But the usual explanations—hiring bias against conservatives, correlations of liberal ideology with high intelligence—do not hold up to scrutiny. Drawing on a range of original research, statistics, and interviews, Gross argues that “political typing” plays an overlooked role in shaping academic liberalism. For historical reasons, the professoriate developed a reputation for liberal politics early in the twentieth century. As this perception spread, it exerted a self-selecting influence on bright young liberals, while deterring equally promising conservatives. Most professors’ political views formed well before they stepped behind the lectern for the first time.
Why Are Professors Liberal and Why Do Conservatives Care? shows how studying the political sympathies of professors and their critics can shed light not only on academic life but on American politics, where the modern conservative movement was built in no small part around opposition to the “liberal elite” in higher education. This divide between academic liberals and nonacademic conservatives makes accord on issues as diverse as climate change, immigration, and foreign policy more difficult.
Okay, this guys study is going to make both sides cringe, and he provides a lot of hard data on a lot of things. I did not read the book, but I listened to a 1 hour interview with him yesterday and saw a lot of videos. He finds different reasons for the results he comes up with, but a couple of key findings....abd btw, he self identifies as a "Lefty" and a proud Progressive
- 50% of all professors are solid Liberals - 10% of all professors are hardcore Liberals
- Students do become Liberal/more Liberal (although he finds it's not substantial, he does find it's true) when they attend college, and the more college they attend, the more Liberal they become. His study was based on a list of questions provided to college freshman, and then the same list of questions as a senior.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:47 pm
by notyou2
They are open minded by nature, which makes them more liberal in their views than say the average Scotty.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:22 pm
by Phatscotty
notyou2 wrote:They are open minded by nature, which makes them more liberal in their views than say the average Scotty.
Can you provide some examples? anyways, the main point is that college leaves a Liberal imprint on students.
I find it to be the case they are far more close minded, far less tolerant of other views. I have an ocean of examples ready at the click of a button to witness firsthand that show the opposite of your statement. Let's play!
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:29 pm
by notyou2
Universities by definition are institutions of higher learning. If higher learning results in people being more liberal, than I think the onus is on you to say why this is false.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:36 pm
by Phatscotty
notyou2 wrote:Universities by definition are institutions of higher learning. If higher learning results in people being more liberal, than I think the onus is on you to say why this is false.
It is a place of higher learning, but it's also true that Universities are absolutely dominated by Liberals. It's not the higher learning that makes people Liberal (business, industry, pharma), it's the Liberal control of higher learning that makes students more Liberal.
Example: Writing professors spending their entire class time repeating over and over and over and over and over again to a classroom full of young impressionable students about why Christians are stupid and Republicans are racist.
Oh, but that's just higher learning!!
sure it is Notyou, sure it is...
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:48 pm
by AAFitz
Probably the history classes.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:11 pm
by notyou2
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Universities by definition are institutions of higher learning. If higher learning results in people being more liberal, than I think the onus is on you to say why this is false.
It is a place of higher learning, but it's also true that Universities are absolutely dominated by Liberals. It's not the higher learning that makes people Liberal (business, industry, pharma), it's the Liberal control of higher learning that makes students more Liberal.
Example: Writing professors spending their entire class time repeating over and over and over and over and over again to a classroom full of young impressionable students about why Christians are stupid and Republicans are racist.
Oh, but that's just higher learning!!
sure it is Notyou, sure it is...
Okeeeyyyy...............
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:12 pm
by notyou2
scotty, your paranoia is showing.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:56 pm
by Phatscotty
notyou2 wrote:scotty, your paranoia is showing.
I just provided an example, something you have been unable to do. I think it's the college professor who is paranoid, but we both have our opinions.
I assume you are done talking about the results of the study, and have contributed all the worthy material and commentary you can bring.
TY
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:01 pm
by notyou2
Look, I am not disputing with you that the majority of college professors appear to be of the liberal persuasion. The discussion was about the reasons for that. You haven't provided any proof of the reasons.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:46 am
by macbone
Scotty, that wasn't my impression of college at all.
Sure, many professors are liberal, and 50% sounds about right, but there are plenty of conservatives in universities as well, including some hard-core pro-states rights folks in history departments. I had a professor you'd probably label as liberal who was a Christian and believed in God but also came down hard on anti-gay demonstrators. His biggest concern was the considered segregation and racial discrimination of Greek organizations, but he loved a Christian group on campus that made a conscientious effort to be racially diverse.
Professors are great people for the most part, but they're just like any other segment of society. Some are saints, and some are sinners (and often the saints admit they're the greatest sinners (= ).
University is a place to challenge your previously held beliefs, not a place to reaffirm that everything you think about the world is true. That's by definition more liberal than conservative in the old sense of liberal being more open-minded and conservative being more focusing on preserving tradition.
Yes, the majority of professors and teachers are registered Democrats, but you know the rhetoric from the American right about issues like education and science. The Republican party seems to be positioning itself as the anti-education, anti-science party. That's a tremendous mistake.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:11 am
by Lootifer
I agree with Mac.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:16 am
by chang50
Lootifer wrote:I agree with Mac.
me 2..
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:52 am
by macbone
Aw, you guys are brainwashed, the lot of ya! =)
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:54 am
by GreecePwns
In pretty much everywhere in the world universities are hotbeds for left-wing politics. In America this isn't the case, you don't see the kind of student political organizations that exist in Europe and elsewhere. At best you get liberal professors (actually in business schools there is a noted conservative bias, outside of economics departments which are more centrist with a token Marxist professor and a token Austrian professor) and much less political activity overall.
Perhaps I am biased because I attended one school which put Catholicism over education, (even having a full-blown church on the damn campus and refusing federal funding for scholarships so they can force all students to take 9 credits of theology) and another which was prohibitively expensive for people who would naturally be attracted towards leftist political organizations.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:22 am
by DoomYoshi
Liberalism on certain issues is bound to come from education. Workers are being exploited worldwide, you don't need a university education for that. However, a university education does cause you to think twice about your morals and enables you to get past the verbal trickery of hardcore conservatism. In short, if you go in to university realizing that workers are being exploited, but also think that they deserve it for being stupid people, and you see that everyone around you in the school (primarily students) are acting the exact same way, then the concept of stupid workers doing it to themselves doesnt hold up.
I grew up on the streets (ya, ok, I'm Canadian, but we still have slum areas) and when I got to university, the first thing I noticed was how The Same everything was. At home, we would go to keggers and get fucked beyond all recognition. Then we would wake up and do our duties (panhandling, shoplifting, working, whatever). At school, it was the same thing. The only difference is that in 5 years, the kids back home all have kids and shitty apartments, the kids in university all have degrees.
The main thing that determines poverty is poverty of the parents. Whether or not that is fair or not is not something that I think the government can address, so I would never vote liberal. However, I am far more liberal now than I ever was, as I do think this is an issue that our society can work on.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:25 am
by DoomYoshi
I should also point out that some issues really have no basis on knowledge. For example, communities with active gay communities, and high divorce rates are not better off. These specific examples are forms of indoctrination.
However, the concept of "maximize sexual enjoyment, and screw the community/kids" comes from a selfish mindset, which may or may not be correct.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:59 am
by Phatscotty
notyou2 wrote:Look, I am not disputing with you that the majority of college professors appear to be of the liberal persuasion. The discussion was about the reasons for that. You haven't provided any proof of the reasons.
The reasons are in the book. One of them is because Liberals promote and look out for their own and turn away Conservatives of equal talent and promise. For the record, and it needs to be said I guess....No, this does not include every single Liberal professor, and not every single student will have that experience, and not every single Conservative will be blown off, but collectively and over time, it's very true. And btw, the discussion is not about that, Why Professors are Liberal is just the name of the book. The reason I posted this is because of an original statement I made long ago, that college makes people Liberal. If you want to sum it all up to "smart people are Liberal, and stupid people are Conservative" that's fine. But, for whatever reasons, this study does find that in fact college does make people more Liberal.
Here, I listened to this last night and just finished this morning. I guarantee you will like it as it's a bunch of Liberals trying to make political hay out of Gross's findings, but the bottom line is college makes people more Liberal.
I want to respond to everyone else too but it will have to wait.
TTFN
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:22 am
by chang50
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Look, I am not disputing with you that the majority of college professors appear to be of the liberal persuasion. The discussion was about the reasons for that. You haven't provided any proof of the reasons.
The reasons are in the book. One of them is because Liberals promote and look out for their own and turn away Conservatives of equal talent and promise. For the record, and it needs to be said I guess....No, this does not include every single Liberal professor, and not every single student will have that experience, and not every single Conservative will be blown off, but collectively and over time, it's very true. And btw, the discussion is not about that, Why Professors are Liberal is just the name of the book. The reason I posted this is because of an original statement I made long ago, that college makes people Liberal. If you want to sum it all up to "smart people are Liberal, and stupid people are Conservative" that's fine. But, for whatever reasons, this study does find that in fact college does make people more Liberal.
Here, I listened to this last night and just finished this morning. I guarantee you will like it as it's a bunch of Liberals trying to make political hay out of Gross's findings, but the bottom line is college makes people more Liberal.
I want to respond to everyone else too but it will have to wait.
TTFN
Ain't education wonderful in that case?
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:15 am
by oVo
A generalization like "Professors are Liberal" is a stereotype and as such is not a one size fits all. Stereotypes don't work any more than liberal is a bad attitude that conservatives must fear. There is no shortage of conservative professors in the university systems and I doubt there ever will be.
There is always the potential for higher education to make students a bit more open minded and still not a "liberal."
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:14 pm
by BigBallinStalin
What's the author's definition of 'liberal' and 'conservative'?
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:33 pm
by notyou2
Phatscotty wrote:
notyou2 wrote:Look, I am not disputing with you that the majority of college professors appear to be of the liberal persuasion. The discussion was about the reasons for that. You haven't provided any proof of the reasons.
The reasons are in the book. One of them is because Liberals promote and look out for their own and turn away Conservatives of equal talent and promise. For the record, and it needs to be said I guess....No, this does not include every single Liberal professor, and not every single student will have that experience, and not every single Conservative will be blown off, but collectively and over time, it's very true. And btw, the discussion is not about that, Why Professors are Liberal is just the name of the book. The reason I posted this is because of an original statement I made long ago, that college makes people Liberal. If you want to sum it all up to "smart people are Liberal, and stupid people are Conservative" that's fine. But, for whatever reasons, this study does find that in fact college does make people more Liberal.
Here, I listened to this last night and just finished this morning. I guarantee you will like it as it's a bunch of Liberals trying to make political hay out of Gross's findings, but the bottom line is college makes people more Liberal.
I want to respond to everyone else too but it will have to wait.
TTFN
If students are leaving university with a more open mind than when they entered then the "indoctrination" is working.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:41 pm
by Symmetry
I've spent much of my life in academia, and the truth (for me) is that the question is complicated. Conservatives will always be on the outside in universities. The basic conservative mindset is the continuance of past ideas, while universities are mostly about research into new ideas.
The strange thing about this question of "indoctrination" is of course that it's a conservative line of thought. Studying Marx, for example, tends to get some conservatives into a tizzy as they consider it indoctrination, as if it makes you a Marxist.
I do wonder if the paranoia about liberal professors might stem from a weird paranoia that students might encounter someone who breaks from the strictly controlled indoctrination a family has over someone till they come of age.
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:04 pm
by crispybits
It amuses me that American right wingers are so worked up about "teh lefties" when actually their lefties are still to the right of the majority of the rest of the world.
Also, +1 to Macbone and Symmetry's posts
Re: Why Are Professors Liberal
Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:33 pm
by notyou2
American conservatives in general amuse me until they become offensive and or attempt to influence beyond their bounds.
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:41 pm