Conquer Club

The OECD has just released their new report on adult educational competence, evaluating persons over the age of 18 in the following 22 countries: USA, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Canada, UK, Ireland, Spain, Austria, Australia, Germany, Finland, Poland, Slovakia, Korea, Italy, Denmark, Czech Republic, Norway, Japan, Estonia, Cyprus.

http://www.oecd.org/site/piaac/Skills%2 ... 013%29.pdf

LITERACY PROFICIENCY
ability to comprehend the meaning of complex, written phrases

Top 5 - Japan, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Australia
Bottom 5 - Ireland, France, Cyprus, Spain, Italy

NUMERACY PROFICIENCY
ability to do math problems based on real-world ideas (e.g. bread is $2.24, milk is $5, butter is $3 - if you buy two loaves of bread and one brick of butter, how much does it cost?)

Top 5 - Japan, Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway
Bottom 5 - Ireland, Cyprus, United States, Italy, Spain

PROBLEM SOLVING PROFICIENCY
ability to solve problems (e.g. scheduling a meeting with multiple attendees with conflicting schedules)

Top 5 - Sweden, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark
Bottom 5 - France, Italy, Spain, Cyprus, Poland

Excellent. Let's draw conclusions:

(1) Since the French can neither read nor solve problems, they will seek escape by consuming croissants, cheese, and wine, (the costs of which they can calculate well enough).

(2) The Swedes and Netherlandese obviously have small penises, thus their inability to sexually satisfy themselves leads them to a life of reading, counting, and problem solving. Prediction: given enough time, they'll figure out how to increase their penis size.

(3) The Japanese face similar issues to (2), but the Japanese will be unable to increase their penis size. Prediction: the Japanese upon realizing this constraint will join the ranks of (5).

(4) The Americans are less stupid than expected.

(5) The Cypriots, Italians, and Spaniards were at one time very much like the Japanese of today, but one day they realized that Failure, so they seek the solace of constant inebriety.

interesting if true. the spanish'll be fine when they change the TZ. olives, for pete's sake!

BigBallinStalin wrote:The Swedes and Netherlandese obviously have small penises

I speak on behalf of everyone when I say that this is not an invitation for Gillipig to post photos in an effort to prove BBS wrong.

If the Swedes and Finns are so smart, why are they communist states?

Paid education and 100% tax rates is smart? GFY Nords

Stereotype confirmed.

so why don't we try to emulate the education systems of the most educated countries?

john9blue wrote:so why don't we try to emulate the education systems of the most educated countries?

I suspect it would require levels of taxation,central planning and changes in attitudes that most Americans would not accept,(and a very long time to see any results)..

john9blue wrote:so why don't we try to emulate the education systems of the most educated countries?

Because right now the government is run by a bunch of hacks that don't give a crap about the rest of the country and have shut down all federal government offices except for those considered "essential" who are being forced to work for free while the rest are essentially laid off. And the politicians are doing this to "stand by their beliefs".

Do you really trust that lot to do anything that would improve the general education system in the country when they've been so inept at everything else they've done?

Headline : US adults are dumber than the average human

I laughed when I saw this, several of my friends are Americans and a hell of a lot smarter than any other country I saw the report on.

Biased, well : Researchers tested about 166,000 people ages 16 to 65 in more than 20 countries and subnational regions. The test was developed and released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which is made up of mostly industrialized member countries. The Education Department’s Center for Education Statistics participated.

What are these people actually paid to do? Researchers need to get a better IQ, send them back to school..maybe kindergarten would be a good start.

I voted option 1, but in reality the Italians probably didn't bother showing up in the first place...

It's actually a little interesting.
The "they're too busy drinking wine in the sun with olives and fine cheese" sort of argument might be a good one, except... well the Finns should be far to busy drinking Vodka while whipping each other with birch branches in the sauna to ever learn to read...
We (Swedes) do here rumours that our eastern brothers have succeeded the last 20+ years where we have been steadily declining though: Education.

So if hell has frozen over and someone is actually interested in my opinion, go research the Finnish education system. They are doing something right over there! Any success Sweden has in such studies is because of the older generation. We know we're slipping. In 20 years we won't top 10, let alone top 5. We're slipping, and repairing an education system takes time.

I feel sorry for the children on today, and even more so for the ones of tomorrow. I'm just happy I got six years in an NZ school as a child that somehow ignited a fierce desire for knowledge. That might be a thing of the past though, when I talk to my Kiwi cousins these days It's hard to see anything on the webcam through that cloud of smoke in front of their faces.

Here's some more stats from the report -

Percent of Workforce with University Education
Top 3 - Canada (42.7%), Netherlands (37.7%), USA (36.1%)
Bottom 3 - Italy (18.4%), Spain (21.1%), Korea (21.5%)

Percent of Workforce Who Work at Companies with 1,000+ Employees
Top 3 - Norway (9.7%), USA (8.7%), Germany (8.7%)
Bottom 3 - Estonia (2.9%), Finland (3.8%) Spain (3.9%)

Percent of Workforce in Agriculture and Fisheries
Top 3 - Poland (6.4%), Ireland (4.4%), Austria (4.0%)
Bottom 3 - USA (0.9%), Slovakia (1.0%), Czech Republic (1.1%)

BigBallinStalin wrote:Excellent. Let's draw conclusions:

(1) Since the French can neither read nor solve problems, they will seek escape by consuming croissants, cheese, and wine, (the costs of which they can calculate well enough).

(2) The Swedes and Netherlandese obviously have small penises, thus their inability to sexually satisfy themselves leads them to a life of reading, counting, and problem solving. Prediction: given enough time, they'll figure out how to increase their penis size.

(3) The Japanese face similar issues to (2), but the Japanese will be unable to increase their penis size. Prediction: the Japanese upon realizing this constraint will join the ranks of (5).

(4) The Americans are less stupid than expected.

(5) The Cypriots, Italians, and Spaniards were at one time very much like the Japanese of today, but one day they realized that Failure, so they seek the solace of constant inebriety.

The conclusion I would draw would actually be a confirmation of my attitude to any ant involved in this waste of time. Simply that they themselves should be put to the test so we can all see how very stupid they really are.

The opening statement by that complete fucking buffoon José Ángel Gurría (Leeds University alumni, which pretty much says it all) has to be one of the most vomit inducing pieces of tripe I have read (quickly) in recent years.

Any one with a modicum of sense between their shell likes will shake their head in complete dismay that this complete bollocks is actually paid for. I am surprised the French even got involved, although one does wonder if they did this just to screw it all up by ensuring misinformation was given to what were obviously a bunch of idiots with grazed knuckles.

So in summary, ignore this load of rubbish unless you are a Politician, in which case try to read it the right way up.

Haha! They're just averages. Say if you have a large area of a city that's kinda slummish, and the kids there don't get a proper education due to lifestyle of parents and/or poverty, those areas become the negative side of the averages. Some countries have moved to educate those areas, running initiatives to teach children language skills from a young age so that they won't be behind when starting school and hopefully will go on to break the cycle and get work. Other places are catching on and trying the same thing. I've been involved with one such project as a designer, so I know quite a bit about it, getting to meet people involved during the research phase.

One does wonder how they come up with these averages though. Do they give some test to all the 10 year olds and compile their data. It isn't really a great way to sum up an entire country lol.

DoomYoshi wrote:If the Swedes and Finns are so smart, why are they communist states?

Paid education and 100% tax rates is smart? GFY Nords

Well it could be because Swedes and Finns are smart so they make more socialist states.

Or they have a more socialist state so the Swedes and Finns get more smart.

Or a combination of both!

Fruitcake wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Excellent. Let's draw conclusions:

(1) Since the French can neither read nor solve problems, they will seek escape by consuming croissants, cheese, and wine, (the costs of which they can calculate well enough).

(2) The Swedes and Netherlandese obviously have small penises, thus their inability to sexually satisfy themselves leads them to a life of reading, counting, and problem solving. Prediction: given enough time, they'll figure out how to increase their penis size.

(3) The Japanese face similar issues to (2), but the Japanese will be unable to increase their penis size. Prediction: the Japanese upon realizing this constraint will join the ranks of (5).

(4) The Americans are less stupid than expected.

(5) The Cypriots, Italians, and Spaniards were at one time very much like the Japanese of today, but one day they realized that Failure, so they seek the solace of constant inebriety.

The conclusion I would draw would actually be a confirmation of my attitude to any ant involved in this waste of time. Simply that they themselves should be put to the test so we can all see how very stupid they really are.

The opening statement by that complete fucking buffoon José Ángel Gurría (Leeds University alumni, which pretty much says it all) has to be one of the most vomit inducing pieces of tripe I have read (quickly) in recent years.

Any one with a modicum of sense between their shell likes will shake their head in complete dismay that this complete bollocks is actually paid for. I am surprised the French even got involved, although one does wonder if they did this just to screw it all up by ensuring misinformation was given to what were obviously a bunch of idiots with grazed knuckles.

So in summary, ignore this load of rubbish unless you are a Politician, in which case try to read it the right way up.

Hey, those governments need some rubbish to justify whatever they already had in mind anyway. The OECD and EC will build a better future for all citizens under their influence! Only poverty can be reduced by wealth transfer and government projects; history and empirical data will guide our selfless leaders toward a better tomorrow for all of us! Hail, OECD! Hail, EC! Unification is key!

john9blue wrote:so why don't we try to emulate the education systems of the most educated countries?

Because the US has a lot more people to try an educate from a raw numbers standpoint, this would be tough. Lets just say 20% of a country's population is in school (I know that's not true, but I'm using it for the argument). The USA has 316 million people, Sweden has about 10 million, and Norway has like 5 million. That means the US has to worry about educating about 63 million kids, while the other two only have to worry about educating 2 million and 1 million respectively, so logistically speaking, it would be much tougher to have the US be at the same level as Norway and Sweden.

One thing I've noticed, is that people thing that there is some magic formula that if implemented would completely change the system. But this rarely take into account a variety of other factors such as population demographics, the overall consensus of the people and their identity, and the other systems in place that would in turn be affected by changing one system.

In short, if you have a larger pool idiots to select from, then expect worst results. If you can centrally plan over a much smaller population, then expect better results ('course, separating the results from the privates schools v. the public schools should be undertaken---not sure if this study does that. If not, any ideas on public policy should be scaled back accordingly).

BigBallinStalin wrote:In short, if you have a larger pool idiots to select from, then expect worst results. If you can centrally plan over a much smaller population, then expect better results ('course, separating the results from the privates schools v. the public schools should be undertaken---not sure if this study does that. If not, any ideas on public policy should be scaled back accordingly).

For some reason I doubt there's a correlation there. Do China have the least intelligent population in Asia? I haven't checked and but according to your theory they should have because it's the most populace country.

Agent 86 wrote:Headline : US adults are dumber than the average human

I laughed when I saw this, several of my friends are Americans and a hell of a lot smarter than any other country I saw the report on.

Biased, well : Researchers tested about 166,000 people ages 16 to 65 in more than 20 countries and subnational regions. The test was developed and released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which is made up of mostly industrialized member countries. The Education Department’s Center for Education Statistics participated.

What are these people actually paid to do? Researchers need to get a better IQ, send them back to school..maybe kindergarten would be a good start.

man, where to begin...

- US adults aren't dumber than the "average human", unless there are no humans in africa? you think there are no humans in africa? RAYSIS

- you can't compare individuals to countries

- you can't really get a better IQ, it's pretty much set in stone once you're an adult

tl;dr you crazy, son

How did a thread titled "Smart: Finnish, Swedes | Dumb: Italians, Spanish" get redirected away from a discussion about Finland, Sweden, Italy and Spain, and toward the USA?

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john9blue wrote:

Agent 86 wrote:Headline : US adults are dumber than the average human

I laughed when I saw this, several of my friends are Americans and a hell of a lot smarter than any other country I saw the report on.

Biased, well : Researchers tested about 166,000 people ages 16 to 65 in more than 20 countries and subnational regions. The test was developed and released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which is made up of mostly industrialized member countries. The Education Department’s Center for Education Statistics participated.

What are these people actually paid to do? Researchers need to get a better IQ, send them back to school..maybe kindergarten would be a good start.

man, where to begin...

- US adults aren't dumber than the "average human", unless there are no humans in africa? you think there are no humans in africa? RAYSIS

- you can't compare individuals to countries

- you can't really get a better IQ, it's pretty much set in stone once you're an adult

tl;dr you crazy, son

This report in the OP compares people in 22 first world countries,no mention of third world nations in Africa ,the ridiculous proposition that US adults are dumber than the average human appears in a later post and has no relevance to the OP.The proposition that they are dumber than the average in this elite group is plausible,but impossibly difficult to evaluate accurately.

saxitoxin wrote:How did a thread titled "Smart: Finnish, Swedes | Dumb: Italians, Spanish" get redirected away from a discussion about Finland, Sweden, Italy and Spain, and toward the USA?

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Lol,rhetorical question much Saxi?