Conquer Club

denominator wrote:I'm not going to delve into the first two because I don't know the movies well enough, but I have a suggested hypothesis for the third.

Vader had many opportunities to reveal that he was Luke's father before the iconic moment, but chose not to. In fact, revealing such information was an intended strategic play to lure him to the dark side. This suggests that Vader used the information with a goal in mind instead of just telling Luke. So I see it as entirely plausible that Vader also knew about Leia, but never had an opportunity to utilize that information to his advantage, so didn't bother revealing it to her.

muy_thaiguy wrote:a. The jedi were being hunted down and targeted. So Yoda hanging around Leia (who wasn't revealed to be Luke's sister in the original trilogy until later on) would have only put Leia into danger and make it suspicsious.

muy_thaiguy wrote:b. Vader knew Padme was pregnant and probably suspected she had given birth before dying, so when the most powerful force wielder next to Vader himself pops up out of nowhere, and about the right age, and considering the Empire's sphere of influence, not too hard to see why he knew.

muy_thaiguy wrote:c. Leia had not been trained in the Force like Luke was and had been kept in the dark much longer than Luke. Only a handful of people even knew her real identity, and she wasn't one of them until Luke told her. Plus, even in the outrigger novels that have come out since, Leia has never shown much in the way of using the Force.

thegreekdog wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:a. The jedi were being hunted down and targeted. So Yoda hanging around Leia (who wasn't revealed to be Luke's sister in the original trilogy until later on) would have only put Leia into danger and make it suspicsious.

So why not put Leia on Dagobah (or any other of the outer rim planets) like they did with Luke?

muy_thaiguy wrote:b. Vader knew Padme was pregnant and probably suspected she had given birth before dying, so when the most powerful force wielder next to Vader himself pops up out of nowhere, and about the right age, and considering the Empire's sphere of influence, not too hard to see why he knew.

I also just realized about 10 minutes ago that Luke's last name was Skywalker. Probably not a lot of Skywalker's running around the galaxy.

muy_thaiguy wrote:c. Leia had not been trained in the Force like Luke was and had been kept in the dark much longer than Luke. Only a handful of people even knew her real identity, and she wasn't one of them until Luke told her. Plus, even in the outrigger novels that have come out since, Leia has never shown much in the way of using the Force.

Makes sense. My only issue is that Vader ostensibly tortured her for hours/days and no Force powers manifested and he didn't figure anything else out.

TGD wrote:So why not put Leia on Dagobah (or any other of the outer rim planets) like they did with Luke?

thegreekdog wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:a. The jedi were being hunted down and targeted. So Yoda hanging around Leia (who wasn't revealed to be Luke's sister in the original trilogy until later on) would have only put Leia into danger and make it suspicsious.

So why not put Leia on Dagobah (or any other of the outer rim planets) like they did with Luke?

muy_thaiguy wrote:b. Vader knew Padme was pregnant and probably suspected she had given birth before dying, so when the most powerful force wielder next to Vader himself pops up out of nowhere, and about the right age, and considering the Empire's sphere of influence, not too hard to see why he knew.

I also just realized about 10 minutes ago that Luke's last name was Skywalker. Probably not a lot of Skywalker's running around the galaxy.

muy_thaiguy wrote:c. Leia had not been trained in the Force like Luke was and had been kept in the dark much longer than Luke. Only a handful of people even knew her real identity, and she wasn't one of them until Luke told her. Plus, even in the outrigger novels that have come out since, Leia has never shown much in the way of using the Force.

Makes sense. My only issue is that Vader ostensibly tortured her for hours/days and no Force powers manifested and he didn't figure anything else out.

Anarkistsdream wrote:Not to burst any bubbles or anything, but plot holes in Star Wars aren't exactly rare...

http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-1 ... missed.php

http://movieplotholes.com/star-wars-a-n ... holes.html

http://geekdad.hotwired.com/forum/topic ... plot-holes

thegreekdog wrote:

Anarkistsdream wrote:Not to burst any bubbles or anything, but plot holes in Star Wars aren't exactly rare...

http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-1 ... missed.php

http://movieplotholes.com/star-wars-a-n ... holes.html

http://geekdad.hotwired.com/forum/topic ... plot-holes

Shut up. If I wanted to google this, I would have googled it. Jerk.

dario2099 wrote:What I'd like to know is how Obi Wan was possibly able to defeat Anakin. By the end of E3, Anakin was probably stronger than both the emperor and Yoda. Maybe he wouldn't unleash his full power against Obi Wan, when Obi Wan had no problem with killing his padawan? Really makes you think twice when it comes to who's the good guys and who's the bad guys.

muy_thaiguy wrote:
c. Leia had not been trained in the Force like Luke was and had been kept in the dark much longer than Luke. Only a handful of people even knew her real identity, and she wasn't one of them until Luke told her. Plus, even in the outrigger novels that have come out since, Leia has never shown much in the way of using the Force.

Anarkistsdream wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

Anarkistsdream wrote:Not to burst any bubbles or anything, but plot holes in Star Wars aren't exactly rare...

http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-1 ... missed.php

http://movieplotholes.com/star-wars-a-n ... holes.html

http://geekdad.hotwired.com/forum/topic ... plot-holes

Shut up. If I wanted to google this, I would have googled it. Jerk.

Love you, Greek!

BigBallinStalin wrote:(d) Aren't the Rebels essentially terrorists? Their destroying the Death Star killed many, many civilians, and that counts as terrorism.

(e) Why do so many fans support terrorism--when it has fancy red logos and good-looking faces?

(f) Should the terrorists of today emulate the marketing strategy of the Star Wars Rebels? (shave beards, look handsome, allow more liberal dress for women, etc.)

mrswdk wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:(d) Aren't the Rebels essentially terrorists? Their destroying the Death Star killed many, many civilians, and that counts as terrorism.

(e) Why do so many fans support terrorism--when it has fancy red logos and good-looking faces?

(f) Should the terrorists of today emulate the marketing strategy of the Star Wars Rebels? (shave beards, look handsome, allow more liberal dress for women, etc.)

If you hate freedom so much then why don't you move to France?

patches70 wrote:Yoda was on Dagobah for a specific reason. To learn how to interact with the people alive in the universe after he had died, like old Ben did. How to enter directly into the force, like Ben did when Vader "struck him down" in the light saber battle on the Death Star. Ben didn't get killed by Vader's light saber, he simply vanished just before the killing blow.

Ben's teacher was one of the first Jedi to learn how to do this (forget his name) and was actually talking to Yoda from beyond and Yoda went to Dagobah to learn the process. And to kind of hide out.

Dagobah is unique among planets in the Star Wars universe as the planet has become infused with the Living Force. A dark Jedi master was killed there a long time ago. That dark Jedi's energy fused with the planet and tainted it. Thus the reason for why the Cave of Evil exists (Where Luke Skywalker faced himself if you remember).

Few things survive there except for the native species. Expeditions there in the past always met in terrible failure. Yoda made his home near the Cave of Evil. The dark nature of the Dark Side and the power of the Cave of Evil was effective in masking Yoda's presence from the rest of the galaxy, which made it a perfect hiding place for the most powerful Light Side Jedi alive. And Dagobah itself due to it's nature naturally hides itself as well. Dagobah has been discovered, lost and rediscovered many times, despite attempts to log it's location for posterity. Information about the planet always seems to get lost.

The nature of the planet and it's origins of how it was infused with The Force also made it a good place to learn how to become One with the Force, as old Ben did right in front of Vader- "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine" if you remember his last words to Vader. And powerful indeed he became. Yoda himself became one with The Force in 4ABY, around the time of "Return of the Jedi". Yoda died the same year (became One with the Force actually, he simply faded away right in front of Luke) that Han Solo was finally freed from his carbonite prison. The Force was brought back into balance the same year (When Vader threw the Emperor to his death on the second Death Star).

Dagobah is very important and sacred place to the Jedi. Luke Skywalker as Jedi Master of the Order would sometimes send young Jedi's there to meditate. But those are other stories not yet told in the movies.

TGD wrote:So why not put Leia on Dagobah (or any other of the outer rim planets) like they did with Luke?

Dagobah is very dangerous, not a good place for Leia to go.

Luke had actual family on Tatooine and Leia was adopted and raised on Alderaan by Bail Organa and raised as one of his own children. I don't think she was ever told about her real parents or family. For her own safety.

It was decided that the two siblings should grow up separate (so they both couldn't be taken at once if ever found out) and with loving, caring families, as to be what was best for them. It all worked out pretty well in the end I guess. Except Alderaan was eventually destroyed by the First Death Star, so that wasn't a very good outcome.....

thegreekdog wrote:

patches70 wrote:Yoda was on Dagobah for a specific reason. To learn how to interact with the people alive in the universe after he had died, like old Ben did. How to enter directly into the force, like Ben did when Vader "struck him down" in the light saber battle on the Death Star. Ben didn't get killed by Vader's light saber, he simply vanished just before the killing blow.

Ben's teacher was one of the first Jedi to learn how to do this (forget his name) and was actually talking to Yoda from beyond and Yoda went to Dagobah to learn the process. And to kind of hide out.

Dagobah is unique among planets in the Star Wars universe as the planet has become infused with the Living Force. A dark Jedi master was killed there a long time ago. That dark Jedi's energy fused with the planet and tainted it. Thus the reason for why the Cave of Evil exists (Where Luke Skywalker faced himself if you remember).

Few things survive there except for the native species. Expeditions there in the past always met in terrible failure. Yoda made his home near the Cave of Evil. The dark nature of the Dark Side and the power of the Cave of Evil was effective in masking Yoda's presence from the rest of the galaxy, which made it a perfect hiding place for the most powerful Light Side Jedi alive. And Dagobah itself due to it's nature naturally hides itself as well. Dagobah has been discovered, lost and rediscovered many times, despite attempts to log it's location for posterity. Information about the planet always seems to get lost.

The nature of the planet and it's origins of how it was infused with The Force also made it a good place to learn how to become One with the Force, as old Ben did right in front of Vader- "If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine" if you remember his last words to Vader. And powerful indeed he became. Yoda himself became one with The Force in 4ABY, around the time of "Return of the Jedi". Yoda died the same year (became One with the Force actually, he simply faded away right in front of Luke) that Han Solo was finally freed from his carbonite prison. The Force was brought back into balance the same year (When Vader threw the Emperor to his death on the second Death Star).

Dagobah is very important and sacred place to the Jedi. Luke Skywalker as Jedi Master of the Order would sometimes send young Jedi's there to meditate. But those are other stories not yet told in the movies.

TGD wrote:So why not put Leia on Dagobah (or any other of the outer rim planets) like they did with Luke?

Dagobah is very dangerous, not a good place for Leia to go.

Luke had actual family on Tatooine and Leia was adopted and raised on Alderaan by Bail Organa and raised as one of his own children. I don't think she was ever told about her real parents or family. For her own safety.

It was decided that the two siblings should grow up separate (so they both couldn't be taken at once if ever found out) and with loving, caring families, as to be what was best for them. It all worked out pretty well in the end I guess. Except Alderaan was eventually destroyed by the First Death Star, so that wasn't a very good outcome.....

Sorry, I know you typed that whole thing, but note I said "Dagobah or another outer rim planet." I can find no logical reason why Child #1 is sent to a far away location with Jedi protection and Child #2 is sent to a royal family in the heart of the galaxy.