Conquer Club

does anyone dabble in the purchasing of stock online? like with the highly advertised trading companies that cater to folks who know very little about it all ( like me )?

i'm just curious, i want to invest about 10k, but am not sure if these online trading sites are ok or not.

maybe someone here can help. someone that knows the ropes. i'd play you a game of doodle for good info.

all on black

khazalid wrote:all on black

if i were to do that, i'd just put it all on green instead.

now why would you go and do a thing like that?

btw - with 10k to bat around, my limited understanding is that it's a crapshoot either way. daresay some of the illuminati might pipe up and tell ya otherwise.

Stocks might be exciting, but with no game plan, better to put it in a more secure place. Can they be trusted? No.

Invest in a surf company in China in RMB. Or anything in RMB, it will only get stronger against the dollar. Baidu is offering RMB1,000,000,000 in mutual funds at a guaranteed 8%, but good luck, it's coming out Monday.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:does anyone dabble in the purchasing of stock online? like with the highly advertised trading companies that cater to folks who know very little about it all ( like me )?

i'm just curious, i want to invest about 10k, but am not sure if these online trading sites are ok or not.

maybe someone here can help. someone that knows the ropes. i'd play you a game of doodle for good info.

there are quite a few Stock Market Trading Games. You can try some various strategies on there and see what works - they are based on real performance, you just can`t manipulate the numbers like you could in real life. I suggest you to a bank for actual trading though.

Remember that stock trading is a zero-sum game. For every winner, there is a loser. Also remember that at any given minute, 60% of trades worldwide are done by computer programs that analyze second-to-milisecond variations in price. This is who you are competing against.

By all means, don`t buy penny stocks, especially if they are advertised.

Depending on your age. You are 34 yoa, so you can be more aggressive than someone in their 60's. I recommend an aggressive tech mutual fund. They are listed on any google search. Buying one stock, ie putting all eggs in one basket is a recipe for higher risk.

Find in the real world a product that you really like, that you think is superior to others and purchase their stock. If you buy individual stocks, try to chose 7-8 to diversify.

Term of purchase: Holding a stock for <1 year will incur 28% capital gain taxes on all profits. holding a stock for >1 yr and then selling, will be taxed at 15% capital gains tax. If you lose $10,000 or $100,000, the government doesn't care, they will only allow a max of $3,000 per year to be written off your taxable income. (You don't want to know how I know this, but it's safe to say that I will be utilizing the $3,000 write off per year for another 35 years).

Buying: in the open market, means you are buying at the price the middle man says, which means if the "ask" for a stock (the price someone is selling it at), you will jump up at the ask price... While those more patient use the "bid" to purchase a stock. The "Bid" is a buyer who selects their own price and waits for the market to come to them.

Bottom line: Stocks are always to be purchased when their is blood on the streets. ie when no one wants them. This event occurred about 2011 for most stocks. And stocks are to be sold when everyone wants them. ie coming up in the future sometime... summary: buy low and sell high. It's really really hard to do. For panic sets in when the stock market is going down and everyone wants out. And blind euphoria clouds judgment to sell when everyone wants into the stock market.

The old adage is when the butcher and the gardener start buying stocks, then it's time to sell.

In my opinion, we have been going up for 3-4 years now. When there comes a rounding at the top and days of lateral movement, coupled with the Federal Reserve raising interest rates, then sell.

all good info, and i'll study it better before i comment too much on it. i've always played with stocks a bit on paper, and i have a modest amount in my 401k which i've kind of played with a bit but quit once the gains came back from "the great depression of 08". but mostly i'm just wanting to know if these sites like "scottrade" or "etrade" are any count, or are they just a money scam.

personally, i've been wanting to get some jcpenny stock. it's really low right now compared to what it has been, and i'm sure christmas will at least double my money. ( i'm not a financial guru, this is just a common sense hunch i have )



less than 2 years ago it was up to $40. i'm sure if i hold out a year or two, it should get back up to that or better.

i haven't studied the jcpenny reports or anything nor do i know if the company is going to go under. but of course i'd do a bit more investigating before i decided on what to buy. there is also a steel company that looks favorable to me.

but i guess mainly i would just like to know about these online trading companies. or what is actually the best source to buy stock from.

plus i welcome all the other information i have been getting.

Scottrade and etrade are legit.

DY makes an interesting point about playing with the simulated stocks in order to get a better understanding (but I'm not sure how useful that would be).

Honestly, if you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. It's best to hire some financial manager to diversify for you. Of course, you could teach yourself and build up your analytical tools, but the trial-and-error can be very costly--so much that it may not have been worth it. You'd be a cook competing in a world of generals.

Maybe you could play with $1000 and see what happens (over 2 years...5 years?), but if so, it would still be best to hire someone who knows what they're doing (they've already done much of the trial-and-error and have--usually--better skills and equipment than you).

If you are a novice you should just invest in one diversified index fund and not mess around with individual stocks at all. You say you have a 401K. Do you have a Roth IRA? If not, get one.

Before you do anything at all go to www.bogleheads.com and read and then read some more. In particular, check out http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehea ... art-up_kit and http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page If you have questions, post in the forum there. Learn what an index fund is and the basics of risk and asset allocation - i.e. US stocks, international stocks, and bonds.

Once you have done that, I suggest checking out www.vanguard.com which is a very popular and respected mutual fund company with low fees. I am not an investment expert by any means but a simple target date fund is probably your best bet. You can do this all by yourself and don't need to hire a financial advisor who potentially could push you to invest in things that are not in your best interest and for which he or she could be getting sales commissions from. Be vary wary. Actually watch this documentary on Frontline as well.... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... nt-gamble/ Hope this helps....

Get some advice... not all investments are risky,
so put some of that money where you're guaranteed
a return. Otherwise you may as well just spend it on
something you enjoy doing... or buy a piece of art.

oVo gave good advice. There is one investment that has rarely ever gone down, and that is art. During the last two major down turns, art still rose.

Technology is here to stay & dominate, so I vote for tech mutual fund...

I have had accounts with both e*trade & TD Ameritrade. These companies are fine. FDIC insured. So no worries. Just avoid the lure of day trading. The $7 in and $7 out plus income tax will eat you alive unless you are dealing with serious money to cover the spread..

Buy RMB.

mrswdk wrote:Buy RMB.

Why?

It is being allowed to appreciate in increments and has yet to reach its true value (so it will continue to gain against other currencies in the future).

mrswdk wrote:It is being allowed to appreciate in increments and has yet to reach its true value (so it will continue to gain against other currencies in the future).

Well, the problem with any currency is that the price of a currency is affected not only by the domestic country's monetary policies (or in general, whatever's happening inside), but also by [/u]the relative prices of other currencies.[/u]

So, you're only talking about one aspect--the monetary policy. If the prices of other currencies rise, then the RMB will depreciate---relative to only those currencies. (In short, something to look out for).


But why bet on the RMB? Aren't there better investments?

The dollar, euro, pound and yen are all looking pretty stagnant for the time being. Therefore the RMB can only appreciate against all the major currencies.

Maybe there are some hot companies to bet on, I don't know. In terms of American or European investments I always get the impression that the only thing likely to bring worthwhile rewards any time soon is betting against one of the shittier economies, but unfortunately their situations largely seem to have levelled out.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

mrswdk wrote:It is being allowed to appreciate in increments and has yet to reach its true value (so it will continue to gain against other currencies in the future).

Well, the problem with any currency is that the price of a currency is affected not only by the domestic country's monetary policies (or in general, whatever's happening inside), but also by [/u]the relative prices of other currencies.[/u]

So, you're only talking about one aspect--the monetary policy. If the prices of other currencies rise, then the RMB will depreciate---relative to only those currencies. (In short, something to look out for).


But why bet on the RMB? Aren't there better investments?

Not really. China has opened many direct currency swaps recently, they have diversified their markets heavily since 2008, do not want or need any of the newly printed US dollars and have stated their intention to make their currency more available for global purposes. They have the largest domestic market potential with a population that both saves and are becoming familiar with credit.

There are many good investments in China. I suggested Baidu as it is a guaranteed tech fund without the risk of start ups, it would be hard for you to get at it, but there are many worthwhile arenas of investment that you can access.

Look William, don't buy JCP, their stock may be low, but this isn't merely a market scare, their business has been progressively disappearing. They may have short-term gains, but being a day-trader is difficult and with just 10k, not worth it. As Universalchiro said, when the gardener and cook start investing, get out. As Buffet says: “Be brave when others are afraid, and afraid when others are brave." Others are brave at the moment for no apparent reason, the economy never came back but stock prices did, banks have been limiting offers of foreclosures to prop up the property market artificially and money is being printed in an unsustainable way in the US.

Your 10k makes up the average bonus that each wallstreet guy gets a month. My grandma's 2.7m in loses during the 2008 thing ensured the bonuses of the entire Wallstreet soccer team, including those on the bench. Interestingly, my mother who works for the World Bank lost nothing, too bad she didn't warn my grandma, how much more so do you think they will warn you?

Have you considered capital gains tax of 15%, and that Obama will probably raise it to 20-25-maybe even 30%?

Put some into stocks if you must (stock markets are around all time highs now....) but put at least 10-20% of that into silver or gold coins. The rate the Fed is creating money and the fact we can't kick QE and with the new head of the Fed talking about printing/creating up to 1,000,000,000,000/month, up from 85,000,000,000/month, you can count on the dollar losing a lot of value to deal with our spending/debt situation/anemic economic growth on a national level (America averages .9% GDP growth over the last 5 years). So long as the government keeps raising the debt and spending more than they have, the dollar will continue to be pressured downwards, which means oil stocks should do good too

Commodities is still the place to go for protection/profits at a time where more dollars are chasing the same unit of goods.

And if you are counting on Christmas season for a pop in retailers, you seek 'the October effect' which everyone already caught onto a long time ago and turned it into 'the September effect' but that was in a good economy, that whole system might be outdated in a time where nobody is certain about Christmas spending, consumer confidence, purchasing power. The last 3-4 Christmas shopping seasons did not meet expectations, but escapism industries fared well

thanks everyone for the good info, all very helpful.

i have considered buying a couple hundred ounces of silver. but i'd rather cut out the middle man with that.
i've done a little amateur gold panning and that is some back breaking shit. alaska is beautiful tho', all worth it.

i realize stocks are risky, maybe not the best idea for such a small fish. i just became debt free ( of course i don't own a home ), and am just looking at all my options. i've been saving money for a bit now, and was dreaming a bit. maybe i'll wait till i have a bit more saved and do something else with it. maybe i'll invest in myself.

my idea was to just drop 5-10 thousand somewhere and forget about it. just plan on it being a loss, but maybe 20 years from now it could be a new boat or something. or the best case is in a few years it hit a price point that i would just cash out with, and go on about my business. about 5 years ago, i said i'd go to a casino with it and play roulette, a few weeks ago, i went and lost 100 bucks and realized how dumb an idea that was.

another question.... if/when i quit my job, i can move my 401k into an ira correct? so i want to find one that will let me buy property with it a couple of years from now. now, to pull that out, i'm assuming i'll take about a 30 percent hit after it's all said and done. am i right?.... i'm really on the fence about pulling that out, but i'm thinking property is probably a pretty sound investment. my dads dad bought his land for 4 bucks an acre back in the good ol' days, now it's going for about 10-15,000 and acre. now, i would never imagine it to rise 2500 more percent, but i'm sure he wouldn't have imagined that either.

I bought 11 acres last Monday. I'm setting up about 3 acres as hogelkultur blueberries with Korean pine growing alongside. I am not weeding, fertilizing, or using pesticides and not using machinery, and have nearly zero input costs. Once the hard labor is in, maintaining the yield will be a matter of cutting back weeds as needed and picking the berries when ripe. The pine trees take about twenty years to develop a fruiting body, but as they grow they will help the blueberries achieve the acidity required. With a decent yield of unsprayed, organic blueberries would give me about 35k profit per year for 17 years, at which time they die and the pine nuts become available.

Many ideas are available for food forests and the work involved in permaculture is limited, after the set up phase. There are no external costs, unless you hire pickers and the potential profits are high. Food prices are going up and real commodities are becoming increasingly important.

Another interesting commodity newly available is industrial hemp. Many organic products are available through hemp, such as biodegradable plastics, the potential to develop a 3D printer's "ink", housing material, organic paints and solvents, clothes, etc. The benefits of investing in this industry are developing local industry, which over time will strengthen the domestic economy; developing green, carbon-sequestering material, which would be a big plus if we are to see a carbon tax; getting in early in a new tech boom; and being a part of the solution. The cons: industrial hemp techniques and methods are key to success. The Canadian attempts at industrial hemp production were set back by a lack of processing facilities, the lack of qualified properties of the plant and a restriction of its production and use. For example, the seed plants provide both the seeds and their various food uses, oil uses, waterproofing uses and medical uses, but they also have the high cellulose content of the inner core, or shiv. Unfortunately, Canadian farmers are not allowed to use both. Also, the research available suggests that there are many uses for the cellulose core without requiring a processing plant, such as the research by the University of Sweden, which shows that the material strength of is not greatly altered with processing and therefore not necessarily required. The waste shiv can also be heated without oxygen to produce 6.8 tonnes of organic coal per acre. The industry relating to the enzyme processing of the plant also opens a wide variety of uses without the heavy infrastructure requirements of processing plants.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:does anyone dabble in the purchasing of stock online?

I know you're asking about stocks, but I've got some mutual fund recommendations that have done very well for me.

PNC Multi Factor Small Cap Fund

Eventide Gilead Fund

Even though the returns are higher for Eventide, you'll see that the fees are lower for the PNC fund. Could be potentially huge savings. Check it out on a screener sometime to see how much. Very low entry for minimum initial investment on both.

For anyone young who just wants to get started with a really low minimum investment, check out FDSAX (SunAmerica), but just be prepared to pay a front-load fee.

Just remember, paper is paper, and tangibles are tangible. Now is not the best time to be in paper assets, the trouble is, cash is paper too, so it's gotta go somewhere right? Best of luck mate



Walking Dead fans, Shane @ 42 seconds!

I seldom (if ever) have agreed with UC, but on this I do agree. Tech is currently a very worthwhile place to put your money for growth. However you need to do your research.

Lootifer wrote:I seldom (if ever) have agreed with UC, but on this I do agree. Tech is currently a very worthwhile place to put your money for growth. However you need to do your research.

Lol.. Its all good Lootifer. I understand you don't agree with me most of the time. I'm totally cool with that, I just enjoy the dialogue back and forth with you & I'm not trying to convert anyone, just discussing. I do appreciate that ya'll have mitigated out the personal cuts on me and just debated on a cordial respectful level. Thank you, I have noticed. Cheers.