Conquer Club

Exodus 20:2-3, King James Bible wrote:I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me

So the very first of the Ten Commandments, what many of the Abrahamic faiths consider to be the most significant moral compass laid down in the Old Testament, suggest that worshiping other gods is not acceptable. Although the details of the consequences of violating this commandment vary from eternal torment to simply not going to heaven, it is my impression that there is very little disagreement amongst believers that you will suffer some form of punishment over it.

With that in mind, what are your (assuming you are a believer) views on freedom of religion as it is laid out in the First Amendment or whatever equivalent laws you might find in other countries? Do you feel that expressing religious freedoms is immoral? If you don't, then don't you worry that you're questioning God's decree? If you do, then do you just feel that is not the place of mortals to dish out divine punishment, and that ultimately God will give non-believers what they deserve after they die? Or would you perhaps prefer to punish us in the living world but just lack the ability to?

Judaism, Islam, Christianity, The book of Mormons, even Satanism all maintain that they stem from the Abrahamic source. They merely differ on the authority of certain figures as prophets. The Buddhists don't have a god. As such, this is nearly a moot question, since none put a god before God.

Religious freedom is not immoral, as Jesus said, seek and you will find. This is a command, not a suggestion. Were religious freedom not allowed, then this would go against the command.

God never suggested that we don't question his existence.

Yes, judge not for you you will be judged by the judgements you cast.

I would not punish anyone, and do not wish to discipline anyone either, but I have a two year old.

Frigidus wrote:

Exodus 20:2-3, King James Bible wrote:I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me

So the very first of the Ten Commandments, what many of the Abrahamic faiths consider to be the most significant moral compass laid down in the Old Testament, suggest that worshiping other gods is not acceptable. Although the details of the consequences of violating this commandment vary from eternal torment to simply not going to heaven, it is my impression that there is very little disagreement amongst believers that you will suffer some form of punishment over it.

With that in mind, what are your (assuming you are a believer) views on freedom of religion as it is laid out in the First Amendment or whatever equivalent laws you might find in other countries? Do you feel that expressing religious freedoms is immoral? If you don't, then don't you worry that you're questioning God's decree? If you do, then do you just feel that is not the place of mortals to dish out divine punishment, and that ultimately God will give non-believers what they deserve after they die? Or would you perhaps prefer to punish us in the living world but just lack the ability to?

There is a big difference between the rules we, as individuals are expected to live by and to teach our children to live by and the things we are entitled to demand of others.

If we are given free will, then it means some people will choose to go against God. Freedom means they have that choice. As Christians, we are instructed to teach, share, and be examples. The "worst" thing we are to do to non believers is to ignore them. Even then, we are tasked with walking away as protection for ourselves. I don't see anything in Christ's dictates about forcing people to proclaim Christ under threats of violence or harm. Even denying the ability of others to speak is not warranted, is counter-productive. It is only when we truly listen to other people that we can possibly even begin to refute what they say. Unless we truly listen to others, we cannot be truly sure that OUR own beliefs and ideas are correct.

Freedom of religion, belief and speech are the greatest treasures we have in this country. Sadly, there are many who would like to forget that, pretend that they somehow have a lock on reality and truth that gives them the right to pass on only their views to others, as if exposing other ideas is itself harmful. That is always the beginning of dictators and fascists. When you deny people the ability to think freely, then all freedom is gone. The only real freedom we ever have IS to think, so denying any part of that causes us more harm that the harshest penalties or bullets.

_sabotage_ wrote:
I would not punish anyone, and do not wish to discipline anyone either, but I have a two year old.

LOL. (laughing as a fellow parent)

Of course, you hit the nail on the head there, though. Is the perdition described a judgement by God or simply a natural consequence of the action of non-belief? You would never intentionally, say, hold your child's hand to a stove (hope not!!!), but you may not always 100%, despite all your efforts, keep your child from getting burned. When the child IS burned, you will hug, put water on it, hopefully not have to do anything more. That is not punishment, it is natural consequence. We offer punishment to teach, to give a mild consequence that a child will understand quickly in situations where the child just might not understand long term consequences or the consequences is too serious to allow a natural consequence learning experience. Some people see hell and the like as a construct of God, but others see it as a consequence of us having been created to have free will. Some see heaven as more a place of complete removal from God.. a choice, rather than a more direct consequence. The problem is, as people of faith understand, the removal of God is far worse than any other imagined consequence might be.

Wait, is God saying that there are other Gods with this one? Huh.