GoranZ wrote:
American... always intentionally missing what matters the most.
Crimean peninsula was Russian for almost 2 centuries until Soviets gifted it to Ukraine in 1954 as token of friendship between Ukrainian and Russian nations... Thats why majority of the population is from Russian origin. Now if Ukraine wants to turn their back on Russia they should return the gift, at least that's how Russian eyes see the current situation.
I'm not sure what your first sentence means, I was just telling The Bison King what was going on is all, cause he asked. I'm not missing anything.
Sure, if Crimea doesn't want to be part of the Ukraine, then the Ukraine should let them go. If the Ukraine wants to go with the EU, more power to them I say. I don't care. If Crimea wants to be part of Russia, good on them, if they want to be independent, that's just fine and dandy as well as far as I care.
Who does care is our politicians and apparently a bunch of useful idiots. The Ukranians storm the capitol in Kiev but then get all pissy when the Crimeans do the exact same thing in Simferopol and they are apparently criminals according to the new "democratic" government in Kiev. Democracy doesn't mean so much to the people who took power in explicitly undemocratic fashion.
Hell, Crimea has their own Constitution from Ukraine. If anybody has the right to say "screw the government in Kiev" it's the Crimeans. But apparently to the new bosses in Kiev that ain't gonna fly, except they can't do a damn thing about it unless someone else steps in for them (hint hint: the US).
But he, the point is, from this American's point of view, is it's none of the United States' business at all. Ukraine, Crimea and Russia can work it out all on their own.
Russia sees the situation as protecting their own interests, of which they have plenty of actual interest in, unlike the US.
But black is white and up is down in this new normal of a world we live in where our Sec of State called the Egyptian military coup "Restoring democracy".
BBS wrote:A war between the US and Russia is highly unlikely cuz nukes.
Ahh, nukes or not, if any Nato nation gets invaded by Russia for any reason we are treaty bound to defend them militarily. I know it was a long time ago, way way back during Bush Jr's term, but there was a serious push to get Georgia and the Ukraine as full members of Nato. Something Georgia was keen on, that's why they sent troops to Iraq and Afghanistan to help old Bush Jr in his "War on Terror".
They want to be under the protection of the US. (we even promised Georgia that they'd get in as full members way back in 2008, that was before their ill advised aggression toward Ossetia and the ass whooping they took from Russia. Since then we've been quietly rebuffing their advances.)
That's all fine and dandy and it was one McCain who was loudest in the call for Georgia especially. Then the South Ossetian war happened. People started asking, "If Georgia was a member of Nato, what would that have meant?" The answer was pretty clear, we (the US) would have been technically at war with Russia.
I can't blame Georgia from wanting to be in Nato, after all, they face a clear threat from Russia who has troops in official Georgian territory to this very day.
Nato isn't a fucking social club as some would try to make other believe, it's a military alliance. Georgia and the Ukraine both have valid and pressing reasons for wanting to join Nato, but the US has to think about the entanglement that such agreements make.
The senators who every year try to push this always receive lobby money to push this, but smarting heads have thus far prevailed. Georgia for instance won't be allowed to join Nato until they clean up their messes. But later this year yet another round of attempts by them are scheduled. Those attempts will fail yet again because the risk for the US is too great and the reward for having said country in the alliance is too minimal.
Ukraine is in the exact same boat. I can see from certain politician's eyes as well, they seek to hedge in Russia. The problem is that the Cold war is over, or so we were told. Nato is a dinosaur and it should be gotten rid of, disbanded because the purpose of Nato no longer exists.
It's been warped, in fact Nato which is a supposed defensive alliance was used to launch a war of aggression against Iraq, if we remember to back then. Nato's role has to change since the fall of Soviet Russia we were told. Bullshit is all it is. And have Georgia in it? Which actually started the war against a nuclear armed power if we haven't forgotten. Ha! Only an idiot would let Georgia and Ukraine join Nato.
As for the idiots who would do such a thing, I give you John McCain, Bush Jr and, people forget this one, Paul Ryan. Ryan even received a crap load of money from Georgian lobby groups way back in 2007-2008, before Georgia's unfortunate experience with Russia.
Besides, boxing in Russia is like boxing in a raccoon in a cave. Spelunkers know, you always check for raccoon tracks in caves. Your ass be crawling on your belly through tight fits and come face to face with a raccoon who by hell will claw the living shit out of your face while your hands are all stuck between you and the cave wall. It's a bad experience for the caver and the raccoon let me tell ya!
(yeah, I used to go caving when I was a lot younger, sue me, it's fun as hell).
So, war is unlikely between the US and Russia, but if the wrong buttons keep being pushed, well, wars have been started for lesser reasons.
I'm just saying people need to think a little bit more about consequences, risk assessment and have some general common sense. And have a clear understanding what our actual national interests are. Those who think it's our job to save the freaking world or be world police got a lot of thinking to do
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:35 am
