Conquer Club

Happened about a week or so ago but it's never too late to educate, as they say.

Japan recently revised its pacifist constitution to allow for 'collective self-defense' (i.e. the capacity to take military action to 'defend allies'). This is nominally to allow it to take actions such as shooting down North Korean missiles that cross Japanese air space while headed for other allies, but conceivably allows Japan to engage in open warfare with its regional neighbors as long as it can find enough ambiguous grounds to claim 'collective self-defence'.

This is the same country which deliberately sabotaged its own railways as a pretext to invading China, before slaughtering, raping and looting on a terrifying scale, whose leaders continue to remorselessly act as apologists for these brutal war crimes, whose very prime minister has paid tribute at a war memorial which honors convicted Grade A war criminals.

The regional running dog of the US just took off its muzzle. We look forward to another press release from the White House claiming that they have no intention of trying to contain China.

Hm, I think I'd rather be friends with Japan than China. I like their movies better. South Korea is a bit of a toss up.


--Andy

HARAKIRI

I see things are boiling up in the Far East...

So what? Let Japan make nukes and waste money on tanks and boats. It's not like it's going to attack any nearby countries, and this will provide another reason why the US needs less forces in the region.

mrswdk wrote:Happened about a week or so ago but it's never too late to educate, as they say.

Japan recently revised its pacifist constitution to allow for 'collective self-defense' (i.e. the capacity to take military action to 'defend allies'). This is nominally to allow it to take actions such as shooting down North Korean missiles that cross Japanese air space while headed for other allies, but conceivably allows Japan to engage in open warfare with its regional neighbors as long as it can find enough ambiguous grounds to claim 'collective self-defence'.

This is the same country which deliberately sabotaged its own railways as a pretext to invading China, before slaughtering, raping and looting on a terrifying scale, whose leaders continue to remorselessly act as apologists for these brutal war crimes, whose very prime minister has paid tribute at a war memorial which honors convicted Grade A war criminals.

The regional running dog of the US just took off its muzzle. We look forward to another press release from the White House claiming that they have no intention of trying to contain China.

China, Japan. Both hate eachother for a number of reasons going back centuries. South Korea doesn't care for either, but would go with Japan because the US is the common ally there.

But China has been making threats about the Sanakaku Islands recently, and claiming large swaths of ocean which overlaps not only Japan's claims, but South Korea's, Thailand's, and other Far East Asian country's territories.

BigBallinStalin wrote:So what? Let Japan make nukes and waste money on tanks and boats. It's not like it's going to attack any nearby countries, and this will provide another reason why the US needs less forces in the region.

It will probably give us a justification for having more forces in the region, to protect the military assets of our ally.

Metsfanmax wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:So what? Let Japan make nukes and waste money on tanks and boats. It's not like it's going to attack any nearby countries, and this will provide another reason why the US needs less forces in the region.

It will probably give us a justification for having more forces in the region, to protect the military assets of our ally.

Undoubtedly, the bureaucrats will see any kind of change as reason to have more forces there, but it's not like they're tempered by reason, cost-benefit analysis, or profit-and-loss accounting.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:So what? Let Japan make nukes and waste money on tanks and boats. It's not like it's going to attack any nearby countries, and this will provide another reason why the US needs less forces in the region.

It will probably give us a justification for having more forces in the region, to protect the military assets of our ally.

Undoubtedly, the bureaucrats will see any kind of change as reason to have more forces there, but it's not like they're tempered by reason, cost-benefit analysis, or profit-and-loss accounting.

Completely agree with all of this....thought the same thing BBS originally wrote and then was brought back to reality by Mets fan.

muy_thaiguy wrote:South Korea doesn't care for either, but would go with Japan because the US is the common ally there.

The US is busting a diplomatic nut papering over the cracks between S Korea and Japan. Japan committed war crimes in Korea with just as much gusto as it did in China, and today denies these crimes just as ardently. South Koreans get absolutely furious about it.

Little Japan was so much more pleasant back when it was a tributary state of China. Maybe China's resurgence will help temper Japan's foul tendencies.

I think there are also a fair number of Europeans who liked China better when it had treaty ports and safe havens from any wrong doing.

Any large scale conflict bringing in multiple actors in the world is doubtful.


--Andy

I am trying to decide whether Nobunaga ordering the killing of missionaries is a worse or less worse war crime than the extinction of the Korean Tiger.

DoomYoshi wrote:I am trying to decide whether Nobunaga ordering the killing of missionaries is a worse or less worse war crime than the extinction of the Korean Tiger.

Nobunaga Oda? He was brutal, but he didn't kill missionaries. In fact, he opened up Japan's borders to them as well as trading with others outside of Korea and China.

mrswdk wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:South Korea doesn't care for either, but would go with Japan because the US is the common ally there.

The US is busting a diplomatic nut papering over the cracks between S Korea and Japan. Japan committed war crimes in Korea with just as much gusto as it did in China, and today denies these crimes just as ardently. South Koreans get absolutely furious about it.

Little Japan was so much more pleasant back when it was a tributary state of China. Maybe China's resurgence will help temper Japan's foul tendencies.

IDK how smart it is for China to make enemies from most of its neighbors... its not that China is weak but it was crushed several times in its history, 1 more could also happen

It could not. The imperialists will need to find a way of engaging with China that does not involve bullying or coercing by force, because that is not going to work any more.

mrswdk wrote:It could not. The imperialists will need to find a way of engaging with China that does not involve bullying or coercing by force, because that is not going to work any more.

If you think that China is unbeatable then you are laying to your self... Out of history we can see that things can change quite rapidly

China's humiliation at the hands of the imperial powers was not the result of a sudden flip. Some of China's senior leaders had seen the inevitable coming for a long time, but did nothing about it. China slowly declined, and then one day it got outright attacked and all those dormant weaknesses got laid bare.

If you think the relative power and prospects of China in the 19th century are at all comparable to China's relative power and prospects in 2014 then you are very much mistaken.

Does anyone here think that China is a threat to their well-being?

China is not trying to threaten anyone. It has no designs on being a new world police or global empire. As long as its military can protect its own sovereignty - which it now can - then that is enough.

BigBallinStalin wrote:Does anyone here think that China is a threat to their well-being?

Do multi-colored rivers, heavily polluted (and still used) beaches, and exploding toilets/refrigerators/other random every day items count as a threat to their well being? Because they have all that stuff (they made the exploding stuff).

muy_thaiguy wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Does anyone here think that China is a threat to their well-being?

Do multi-colored rivers, heavily polluted (and still used) beaches, and exploding toilets/refrigerators/other random every day items count as a threat to their well being? Because they have all that stuff (they made the exploding stuff).

So, how is China threatening you?

As I said, China is not trying to threaten anyone. You're making the mistake of using your own colonialist frame of reference to analyze a non-colonialist country. The desire to project power across the world and use fear and intimidation to push the world around is just something that Westerners and bananas* do. The mainland is yellow through and through and as such has no such desire to bully the rest of the world. Fear not the lies and disinformation sown by CNN et al.

*yellow on the outside, white on the inside

Honestly, I don't care about China. They provide me with cheap stuff at a reasonable quality, so I'm glad they've made me marginally richer.

I'm just sick of some US foreign policy analysts babbling about how China's attempts at taking the 'rocks and reefs' is going to lead to a major war because '1930s appeasement' and hurpaderp.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. There is one bully in the region, it has an emperor called Akihito and it is currently undoing all the pacifist clauses inserted into its constitution by America following WW2. These clauses were imposed for good reason: the Japanese Empire unleashed absolute terror on Asia during the first half of the 20th century, something which its most senior politicians continue to brush under the carpet or even outright deny. Now is not the time for Japan to unleash its armed forces. The Americans should heed the warnings of their former allies in the face of Japanese aggression, the Chinese and Koreans, and reign in East Asia's rabid dog.

BigBallinStalin wrote:I'm just sick of some US foreign policy analysts babbling about how China's attempts at taking the 'rocks and reefs' is going to lead to a major war because '1930s appeasement' and hurpaderp.

Indeed. Nothing more than hype designed to justify the US regime's attempts to contain China to the American public.