Conquer Club

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:09 pm**

I've been studying this a lot from the virological perspective.

It's looking terrible right now. 2 vaccines and a drug are almost ready to enter human tests. Now that Bill Gates is giving money, it should get better. Obviously Solitaire was the greatest achievement of mankind, so now Ebola should be cured.

I read this article today:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29147797

It's more of an emotional one than a fact-based article, but it was a nice change of pace for me (I've read like 200 ebola articles in the past few weeks).

Makes me think that living in Liberia right now is less scary from an Ebola perspective (right now, 2 thousand people out of 4 million are known to be infected) but the culture of fear that Ebola breeds. School is canceled indefinitely, hospitals are turning people away, going through a crowded market must be take nerves of steel.

Sierra Leone isn't a great place to live either:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/26/us-health-ebola-africa-idUSKBN0FV0NL20140726

That's right, the virus doesn't exist, it's just a cover for cannibalistic rituals :roll:

This is why creationists and their ilk bother me so much. These anti-reality people actually cause deaths of hundreds of people every year.

Viruses do exist, there are no proven negative effects from eating GMOs, vaccines won't kill you, etc.

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:44 pm**

Did you know that ebola in reverse letter order is alobe? I think I'm onto something here.

--Andy

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:59 pm**

This is why creationists and their ilk bother me so much. These anti-reality people actually cause deaths of hundreds of people every year.

Viruses do exist, there are no proven negative effects from eating GMOs, vaccines won't kill you, etc.[/quote]

I am not sure i understand your tone , GMO`s , we are the guinea pigs , a reason Health Records are now Gov`t Property.
Vaccines are debatable , long term they maybe be effective , short term is purely an assumption that all metabolism`s and immune systems are similar. Adverse reactions are a possibility. Of course Viruses exist.

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:08 pm**

AndyDufresne wrote:Did you know that ebola in reverse letter order is alobe? I think I'm onto something here.

--Andy

It's one letter off of Adobe.

PHOTOSHOP CONSPIRACY

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:27 pm**

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:50 pm**

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:00 pm**

danfrank666 wrote:
This is why creationists and their ilk bother me so much. These anti-reality people actually cause deaths of hundreds of people every year.

Viruses do exist, there are no proven negative effects from eating GMOs, vaccines won't kill you, etc.

I am not sure i understand your tone , GMO`s , we are the guinea pigs , a reason Health Records are now Gov`t Property.
Vaccines are debatable , long term they maybe be effective , short term is purely an assumption that all metabolism`s and immune systems are similar. Adverse reactions are a possibility. Of course Viruses exist.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:35 am**

DoomYoshi wrote:I've read like 200 ebola articles in the past few weeks.

what?

is porn blocked on your internet?

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:44 am**

I have heard 'men can't get AIDS' and 'having sex with a white woman cures AIDS'

I have also heard 'can you get pregnant from kissing?' from a 21 yr old girl.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:27 am**

There are quite a few proven negative effects from eating GMOs.

GMOs result in extensive monocultures which provide a feeding ground for certain creatures during brief periods of time and destroys the habitats of bees and other wildlife.

GMOs lead to fewer but larger farms. In Canada every size of farm is in decline except for the very largest which are on the increase. This decreases food security, increases transport requirements, decreases the number of people getting their livelihood from farming, increases the use of heavy equipment.

Some GMOs are herbicide specific. Their entire intent is to be grown on land that has otherwise been poisoned out of production. The poison leaches into the water, is consumed by the food chain. While the jury is out- and by jury I mean me and by out I mean batshit crazy- on the consumption of the GMO itself, the life cycle of round-up in the ecosystem is clearly destructive.

GMOs provide a corporate bottleneck on food production. Food production should be in the hands of the people, as soon as a corporation with such close governmental ties is allowed to patent seeds, then it's downhill from there. Monsanto has been found to bribe governments. In the US, this is not necessary as Monsanto runs its regulating body, but in Canada, China and elsewhere, Monsanto has been seen to bribe professors, politicians, researchers.

As for vaccines...

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:53 pm**

shickingbrits wrote:There are quite a few proven negative effects from eating GMOs.

GMOs result in extensive monocultures which provide a feeding ground for certain creatures during brief periods of time and destroys the habitats of bees and other wildlife.

Monoculture agriculture started in the 1800s when the idea of "cash crops" as opposed to subsistence living became the norm for farmers. Completely unrelated concept.

GMOs lead to fewer but larger farms. In Canada every size of farm is in decline except for the very largest which are on the increase. This decreases food security, increases transport requirements, decreases the number of people getting their livelihood from farming, increases the use of heavy equipment.

The same could be said about any of the agricultural techniques introduced since the 1800s. From government subsidies to tractors. Once again, completely unrelated concept.

Some GMOs are herbicide specific. Their entire intent is to be grown on land that has otherwise been poisoned out of production. The poison leaches into the water, is consumed by the food chain. While the jury is out- and by jury I mean me and by out I mean batshit crazy- on the consumption of the GMO itself, the life cycle of round-up in the ecosystem is clearly destructive.

Round-up isn't that terrible. In small doses it blocks synthesis of phenylalanine and tryptophan, both of which are essential amino acids anyway (i.e. we are incapable of synthesizing them). It also blocks synthesis of Tyrosine which might be a problem for malnourished people. In North America, malnourishment is such a rare problem (when's the last time you had scurvy?). The potential problem for round-up is in the large doses. A large enough dose of any chemical can kill you. That isn't specific to GMOs though. Pesticides are dumped in disgusting amounts even on non-GMO crops.

GMOs provide a corporate bottleneck on food production. Food production should be in the hands of the people, as soon as a corporation with such close governmental ties is allowed to patent seeds, then it's downhill from there. Monsanto has been found to bribe governments. In the US, this is not necessary as Monsanto runs its regulating body, but in Canada, China and elsewhere, Monsanto has been seen to bribe professors, politicians, researchers.

Capitalism is wealth generation. You take a useless protein and incorporate it into a plant and voila - wealth creation. Is your problem with wealth? Are you a communist? If so, our discussion can shift gears completely, and I will just stop wasting my time and let BBS take over from here.

Food production used to be in the hands of the people. That all stopped after the Great Depression, caused by fiat currency and cash crop agriculture (a deadly combo). This problem existed long before we were GMOing. Tons of companies have bribed politicians. How is that caused by GMOs?

You have listed a bunch of points, none of which are false. You haven't showed causality on any of your points though.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:59 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote:
danfrank666 wrote:
This is why creationists and their ilk bother me so much. These anti-reality people actually cause deaths of hundreds of people every year.

Viruses do exist, there are no proven negative effects from eating GMOs, vaccines won't kill you, etc.

I am not sure i understand your tone , GMO`s , we are the guinea pigs , a reason Health Records are now Gov`t Property.
Vaccines are debatable , long term they maybe be effective , short term is purely an assumption that all metabolism`s and immune systems are similar. Adverse reactions are a possibility. Of course Viruses exist.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:16 pm**

DoomYoshi wrote:
GMOs provide a corporate bottleneck on food production. Food production should be in the hands of the people, as soon as a corporation with such close governmental ties is allowed to patent seeds, then it's downhill from there. Monsanto has been found to bribe governments. In the US, this is not necessary as Monsanto runs its regulating body, but in Canada, China and elsewhere, Monsanto has been seen to bribe professors, politicians, researchers.

Capitalism is wealth generation. You take a useless protein and incorporate it into a plant and voila - wealth creation. Is your problem with wealth? Are you a communist? If so, our discussion can shift gears completely, and I will just stop wasting my time and let BBS take over from here.

Food production used to be in the hands of the people. That all stopped after the Great Depression, caused by fiat currency and cash crop agriculture (a deadly combo). This problem existed long before we were GMOing. Tons of companies have bribed politicians. How is that caused by GMOs?

You have listed a bunch of points, none of which are false. You haven't showed causality on any of your points though.

Also, it's not just GMO-producing companies that are using the political environment to their advantage. Many small farmers receive subsidies in the form of drastically reduced prices of water (via price controls). Even voters take advantage of this in their own municipalities (big surprise, municipal governments tend to own the water supply and fix the price to a politically happy, albeit wasteful, price).

I'm just sayin' that as much as we seek comfort in blaming large firms for cronyism, we should also recognize that voters are guilty of it as well. Think of all the knowledge required in implementing sound policies (think of all the knowledge omitted from the political process too). Then think of all that being compressed into emotionally laden and fact-deprived speeches by politicians. Then think of the millions and millions of voters who feel this enthusiasm to 'do something'. Unsurprisingly, this political environment generates really dumb outcomes.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:34 pm**

BigBallinStalin wrote: Think of all the knowledge required in implementing sound policies (think of all the knowledge omitted from the political process too). Then think of all that being compressed into emotionally laden and fact-deprived speeches by politicians.

Back to the topic at hand, we have come full circle. This kind of article makes we facepalm a bit:
http://www.dw.de/unstoppable-is-ebola-mutating-with-unknown-consequences-before-our-eyes/a-17912329
Specifically, the opening of it:

When President Barack Obama announced the deployment of US forces to West Africa he said in an interview on Sunday that immediate intervention was vital.

Otherwise, said Obama, Ebola could mutate, making it more easily transmittable, "and then it could be a serious danger to the United States."

Obama has nothing to do with the rest of the story and is probably not the greatest source on viral genetics. The entire opening is just vapid.

Here's another one:

"Liberia is facing a serious threat to its national existence," Samukai told the U.N. Security Council. "The deadly Ebola virus has caused a disruption of the normal functioning of our state."

Ebola, he added, "is now spreading like wildfire, devouring everything in its path. The already weak health infrastructure of the country has been overwhelmed."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/ebola-is-devouring-everything-in-its-path-could-it-lead-to-liberias-collapse/

Let's say ebola is going to kill 100x the people it has in Liberia. That would mean it would kill 100 thousand. That is 2.5% of the population, or just less than the Canadians lost in the Flu Outbreak of 1918. After 1918, Canada did great. The problem isn't the virus: it's the culture of non-education and anti-science that pervades every socioeconomic level of Liberia.

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:18 pm**

That too, but Samukai is playing the game in a politically rewarding manner. He's essentially asking for more money aid and maybe more soldiers that he doesn't have to pay in order to better secure whatever.

Wait... how do you know it's a culture of non-education and anti-science which is causing the problem in Liberia? Are there not other countries in the continent with similar levels of ignorance yet less ebola (and AIDS)?

Posted: **Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:21 pm**

Because he is an unbeliever.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:11 pm**

I was inspired by this thread to check recent statistics. As per CDC/WHO, as of 10 September, 4,846 / 2,375. That's 49%, which is astounding on its own. Still, 50% is relatively good for this virus, especially considering the lack of appropriate medical treatments.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:54 pm**

Neoteny wrote:I was inspired by this thread to check recent statistics. As per CDC/WHO, as of 10 September, 4,846 / 2,375. That's 49%, which is astounding on its own. Still, 50% is relatively good for this virus, especially considering the lack of appropriate medical treatments.

That's nice, but my sources say this Ebola strain is poised to wipe out most of human civilization...and it's AIRBORNE!

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:23 pm**

I heard nietzsche is selling some anti-bodies in Mexico. And by anti-bodies, I mean AOG's body.

--Andy

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:52 pm**

DoomYoshi wrote:I've been studying this a lot from the virological perspective.

It's looking terrible right now. 2 vaccines and a drug are almost ready to enter human tests. Now that Bill Gates is giving money, it should get better. Obviously Solitaire was the greatest achievement of mankind, so now Ebola should be cured.

(I am going to have to quote that solitaire big... lol sadly true, but lol)

DoomYoshi wrote:I read this article today:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29147797

It's more of an emotional one than a fact-based article, but it was a nice change of pace for me (I've read like 200 ebola articles in the past few weeks).

Makes me think that living in Liberia right now is less scary from an Ebola perspective (right now, 2 thousand people out of 4 million are known to be infected) but the culture of fear that Ebola breeds. School is canceled indefinitely, hospitals are turning people away, going through a crowded market must be take nerves of steel.

Sierra Leone isn't a great place to live either:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/26/us-health-ebola-africa-idUSKBN0FV0NL20140726

That's right, the virus doesn't exist, it's just a cover for cannibalistic rituals

This is why creationists and their ilk bother me so much. These anti-reality people actually cause deaths of hundreds of people every year.

Viruses do exist, there are no proven negative effects from eating GMOs, vaccines won't kill you, etc.

and the real irony is that you go from the conservative, highly religious extreme to the highly liberal generally anti- established religion (though often pro various "spirirualistic" trends).

the real answer is that people have to start talking and debating again.... (or maybe just start???) We have to bring back an appreciation and respect for evidence and FACTS... and to actually seeking out opposing views, rather than just getting "enough" to feel we "understand" the "other" side from various internet sites with which we generally agree.

And part of that means restoring the true independent research funding that used to come from government tax dollars, but that is more and more being cut in favor of "results oriented" targets. Scientifically, some answers are just plain difficult. A competent researcher can truly and legitimately follow many leads that just wind up being wrong. Those "negative" answers are just as important, sometimes more important than the final "correct" answer. The fact that another research happens on the final answer does not mean that researcher is better, just luckier.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:55 pm**

DaGip wrote:
Neoteny wrote:I was inspired by this thread to check recent statistics. As per CDC/WHO, as of 10 September, 4,846 / 2,375. That's 49%, which is astounding on its own. Still, 50% is relatively good for this virus, especially considering the lack of appropriate medical treatments.

That's nice, but my sources say this Ebola strain is poised to wipe out most of human civilization...and it's AIRBORNE!

I don't have time to watch your video, but an airborne bloodborne pathogen sounds super plausible. They are very similar in structure and function. Like, probably just one mutation or something.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:00 pm**

Neoteny wrote:
DaGip wrote:
Neoteny wrote:I was inspired by this thread to check recent statistics. As per CDC/WHO, as of 10 September, 4,846 / 2,375. That's 49%, which is astounding on its own. Still, 50% is relatively good for this virus, especially considering the lack of appropriate medical treatments.

That's nice, but my sources say this Ebola strain is poised to wipe out most of human civilization...and it's AIRBORNE!

I don't have time to watch your video, but an airborne bloodborne pathogen sounds super plausible. They are very similar in structure and function. Like, probably just one mutation or something.

If not Ebola, then some other pathogen. Our technological honeymoon of escape from plaques is about over.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:28 pm**

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:32 pm**

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
DaGip wrote:
Neoteny wrote:I was inspired by this thread to check recent statistics. As per CDC/WHO, as of 10 September, 4,846 / 2,375. That's 49%, which is astounding on its own. Still, 50% is relatively good for this virus, especially considering the lack of appropriate medical treatments.

That's nice, but my sources say this Ebola strain is poised to wipe out most of human civilization...and it's AIRBORNE!

I don't have time to watch your video, but an airborne bloodborne pathogen sounds super plausible. They are very similar in structure and function. Like, probably just one mutation or something.

If not Ebola, then some other pathogen. Our technological honeymoon of escape from plaques is about over.

Well, possibly, but more likely due to antibiotic resistance, not aerosolized BBPs.

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:34 pm**

Neoteny wrote:
Well, possibly, but more likely due to antibiotic resistance, not aerosolized BBPs.

BigBallinPlagues?

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