Conquer Club

A couple of Australians, a Frenchie, a Brit and a few others have all recently been sentenced to death in Indonesia in a bunch of different drug-smuggling cases, mostly/all (I forget) for smuggling large amounts of drugs such as heroin and crystal meth into or out of Indonesia. The penalty for this is death.

Australia, France etc. have got pissy about this and started threatening Indonesia with 'consequences' if their nationals are executed in Indonesia, threats which Indonesia has ignored.

Do the governments of other countries have any business telling Indonesia what to do in these cases?

mrswdk wrote:Australia, France etc. have got pissy about this and started threatening Indonesia with 'consequences' if their nationals are executed in Indonesia, threats which Indonesia has ignored.

LOL, what kind-of "consequences" is plucky little Australia going to impose on Indonesia?

They recalled their ambassador.

Tinder box!

No government has rights as a sovereign state. Unless your America. Borders are fictitious.

mrswdk wrote:Do the governments of other countries have any business telling Indonesia what to do in these cases?

If the UK government allows a citizen to be killed for a criminal action, then it is not protecting its citizens properly. The citizen should not be given a free pass, they should be given a life sentence, a penalty that is our equivalent of the death sentence. They have no business telling Indonesia what to do, but that does not mean they should not try.

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Do the governments of other countries have any business telling Indonesia what to do in these cases?

If the UK government allows a citizen to be killed for a criminal action, then it is not protecting its citizens properly. The citizen should not be given a free pass, they should be given a life sentence, a penalty that is our equivalent of the death sentence.

So the British tourist who was recently jailed for a few days in Malaysia after taking naked photos on top of a sacred mountain shouldn't have been punished at all, because in the UK what she did is not an offense?

They have no business telling Indonesia what to do, but that does not mean they should not try.

lolwut

Thats not what I said. The British tourist should not be sentenced to death, and she wasnt. If the jail sentence was longer than 3 days then I hope the UK government would have tried to get her to serve her time in a UK prison.

It's the same thing. If someone commits a crime which comes with a death penalty in the country in which they commit it, why shouldn't they be put to death? Whether David Cameron or Rowan Atkinson think the death penalty is bad is irrelevant.

mrswdk wrote:A couple of Australians, a Frenchie, a Brit and a few others have all recently been sentenced to death in Indonesia in a bunch of different drug-smuggling cases, mostly/all (I forget) for smuggling large amounts of drugs such as heroin and crystal meth into or out of Indonesia. The penalty for this is death.

Australia, France etc. have got pissy about this and started threatening Indonesia with 'consequences' if their nationals are executed in Indonesia, threats which Indonesia has ignored.

Do the governments of other countries have any business telling Indonesia what to do in these cases?

2 words: Public Relations

Indonesia should execute them on national TV.

mrswdk wrote:Indonesia should execute them on national TV.

And that is the first step to war.

It is part of UK culture to be proud of having no death penalty in our country, if we are not willing to fight for that for our citizens abroad then we may as well bring it back.

And using the British tourist in Malaysia is a bad example. Find a single example where others have been jailed for exposing themselves on that mountain in Malaysia. Whilst its true that its against their rules, they enforced it because of an earthquake and not because of the act. Should the UK government just stand by and watch when their citizens become vicitimised for a crime that Malaysia does not normally enforce?

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:Should the UK government just stand by and watch when their citizens become vicitimised for a crime that Malaysia does not normally enforce?

No. They should applaud Malaysia for finally enforcing their laws.

Bollocks.

Concerning the tourists that got naked, the locals were blaming them for an earthquake because they took naked pics on their sacred mountain.

I wonder if they find to western aid money offensive as it was donated by many atheists, christians, jews, etc.

notyou2 wrote:Concerning the tourists that got naked, the locals were blaming them for an earthquake because they took naked pics on their sacred mountain.

I wonder if they find to western aid money offensive as it was donated by many atheists, christians, jews, etc.

Nice non-sequitur, Dawkins.

I heard someone say that Singapore's approach to this is sometimes to get the Australians to arrest the person on their way to or from Singapore so that there isn't a PR/extradition debacle.

Metsfanmax wrote:I heard someone say that Singapore's approach to this is sometimes to get the Australians to arrest the person on their way to or from Singapore so that there isn't a PR/extradition debacle.

Australians arrest Australians who commit crimes in Singapore, in Singapore?

mrswdk wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:I heard someone say that Singapore's approach to this is sometimes to get the Australians to arrest the person on their way to or from Singapore so that there isn't a PR/extradition debacle.

Australians arrest Australians who commit crimes in Singapore, in Australia?

Corrected

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:I heard someone say that Singapore's approach to this is sometimes to get the Australians to arrest the person on their way to or from Singapore so that there isn't a PR/extradition debacle.

Australians arrest Australians who commit crimes in Singapore, in Australia?

Corrected

Wait for the person to go back to Australia, arrest them there and then deport them back to Singapore? I don't understand what the point of that system is.

No deporting back to Singapore. Australia can arrest them for drug smuggling in Australia and sentence them accordingly.

Does Singapore want blood or justice. I worry that you seem to only want blood.

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:No deporting back to Singapore. Australia can arrest them for drug smuggling in Australia and sentence them accordingly.

Does Singapore want blood or justice. I worry that you seem to only want blood.

Is it justice when a sovereign state has to relinquish the right to prosecute people for crimes committed within state borders?

Almost all crimes above the level of petty crime are international. They will be prosecuted, just not by Singapore. Its still justice.

Their land their laws!

I'm now actually not sure who's the winner in that AUS-SG thing: Australia, for successfully violating Singapore's sovereignty (like a bawwwss), or Singapore, for shipping their criminals off to Australia so that they don't have to deal with them themselves.

Only an idiot would smuggle drugs through Indonesia. They execute drug smugglers there! If someone is that stupid then f*ck 'em, let 'em hang.

patches70 wrote:Only an idiot would smuggle drugs through Indonesia. They execute drug smugglers there! If someone is that stupid then f*ck 'em, let 'em hang.

And if forced to by drug cartels who either blackmail them or threaten family? Because some of those people involved had that happen to them.