Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:01 am
by mrswdk
Saudi Arabia Says Has Welcomed 100,000 Syrians
Riyadh: Saudi Arabia on Friday responded to "false and misleading" reports about its response to the Syrian refugee crisis, saying it has given residency to 100,000 people from the war-ravaged state.
The kingdom's statement followed a similar defence issued Wednesday by the United Arab Emirates, after questions started to be asked about how wealthy Arab states have reacted to the outflow of more than four million Syrians.
Germany alone is expected to receive 800,000 asylum-seekers from Syria and elsewhere this year. Many more Syrians are sheltering in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.
An official from Saudi Arabia's ministry of foreign affairs, cited by the official Saudi Press Agency, said the kingdom did not want "to show off or brag in the media" about its response to Syria, where civil war began four years ago.
"However, it sees the importance of clarifying these efforts in response to false and misleading media reports about the kingdom," the unnamed official said.
Saudi Arabia "made it a point not to deal with them as refugees" but has issued residency permits to 100,000 Syrians who wished to stay in the kingdom, the official said.
"With that came the right to free education, healthcare and employment according to a royal decree in 2012 that also states that Syrian students visiting the kingdom be admitted in public schools," the official added.
The kingdom has supported millions of Syrian refugees in Jordan, Lebanon and other countries in coordination with the host countries, while providing a total of about $700 million in humanitarian aid, he said.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:01 am
by mrswdk
Was gonna post this in the refugees thread but that seems to have descended into warmonger and GoranZ spouting mad conspiracy theories.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:00 am
by waauw
Your title is very misleading. Saudi Arabia has more money to spare as opposed to EU countries, and Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
And as opposed to Saudi-Arabia, Eu-countries don't religiously persecute atheists and sjiites.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:59 am
by mrswdk
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:42 am
by waauw
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
When you general statement that the saudi's "more humanitarian than most EU countries", you have to take into account all Saudi policy. Not to mention that europe has been receiving refugees for decades from all over Africa. It's not unusual for refugees from countries as far away as Uganda to make the crossing into europe. There are thousands of them every week.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:57 am
by mrswdk
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
When you general statement that the saudi's "more humanitarian than most EU countries", you have to take into account all Saudi policy.
Migrants are not a cost that a country needs to absorb. In general they are young, fit working age people who move to a different country to work. How does a country containing a relatively high number of migrants diminish its capacity to take refugees?
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:25 am
by waauw
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
When you general statement that the saudi's "more humanitarian than most EU countries", you have to take into account all Saudi policy.
Migrants are not a cost that a country needs to absorb. In general they are young, fit working age people who move to a different country to work. How does a country containing a relatively high number of migrants diminish its capacity to take refugees?
housing, healthcare, water and electricity, food banks, investments integration(amongst which subsidized language classes), education(both adults and children), ...
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:06 pm
by mrswdk
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
When you general statement that the saudi's "more humanitarian than most EU countries", you have to take into account all Saudi policy.
Migrants are not a cost that a country needs to absorb. In general they are young, fit working age people who move to a different country to work. How does a country containing a relatively high number of migrants diminish its capacity to take refugees?
housing, healthcare, water and electricity, food banks, investments integration(amongst which subsidized language classes), education(both adults and children), ...
What, because immigrants don't pay the same taxes as native-born citizens?
http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Saudi Arabia more humanitarian then EU countries Good joke
Just as info ~21% of Saudi population(28 million) are immigrants. And document from 2006 shows the number of Syrians in Saudi Arabia. You can guess the number... 100,000. http://www.un.org/esa/population/meetin ... zewski.pdf
Just ot be clear, none of Syrians in Saudi Arabia are registered as refuges.
mrswdk wrote:Was gonna post this in the refugees thread but that seems to have descended into warmonger and GoranZ spouting mad conspiracy theories.
Well I agree with you... You should fear me
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:42 pm
by mrswdk
GoranZ wrote:Just as info ~21% of Saudi population(28 million) are immigrants.
Just to be clear, none of Syrians in Saudi Arabia are registered as refuges.
They're not registered as refugees, but they're still people who were forced out of Syria by the war (meaning they are in the exact same boat* as the ones going to Europe).
*lol
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:08 pm
by AndyDufresne
mrswdk wrote:They're not registered as refugees, but they're still people who were forced out of Syria by the war (meaning they are in the exact same boat* as the ones going to Europe).
*lol
There are at least a few differences -- as I don't think those living in Saudi Arabia have the possibility to become full fledged citizens with all the rights and documents that such citizenship entails. Moreover, evidently the gulf nations don't have official legal protections for refugee or asylum statuses as well, since they never signed the 1951 Refugee Convention.
But the gulf nations do offer them an alternative place to make some sort of measly living to support their families still in the region and those making trips elsewhere.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:25 pm
by mrswdk
AndyDufresne wrote:
mrswdk wrote:They're not registered as refugees, but they're still people who were forced out of Syria by the war (meaning they are in the exact same boat* as the ones going to Europe).
*lol
There are at least a few differences -- as I don't think those living in Saudi Arabia have the possibility to become full fledged citizens with all the rights and documents that such citizenship entails. Moreover, evidently the gulf nations don't have official legal protections for refugee or asylum statuses as well, since they never signed the 1951 Refugee Convention.
Yeah, but the Saudis don't class the refugees as refugees. As OP says, they give them residence permits instead. These entitle them to free education, healthcare and give them the right to seek employment, which is more than a refugee in most Western countries would get judging by a brief Google search. And they have taken in more Syrians than the US, UK, France etc. combined!
Hooray for the Saudis, benevolent saviors of the planet!
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:31 pm
by notyou2
mrswdk wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:
mrswdk wrote:They're not registered as refugees, but they're still people who were forced out of Syria by the war (meaning they are in the exact same boat* as the ones going to Europe).
*lol
There are at least a few differences -- as I don't think those living in Saudi Arabia have the possibility to become full fledged citizens with all the rights and documents that such citizenship entails. Moreover, evidently the gulf nations don't have official legal protections for refugee or asylum statuses as well, since they never signed the 1951 Refugee Convention.
Yeah, but the Saudis don't class the refugees as refugees. As OP says, they give them residence permits instead. These entitle them to free education, healthcare and give them the right to seek employment, which is more than a refugee in most Western countries would get judging by a brief Google search. And they have taken in more Syrians than the US, UK, France etc. combined!
Hooray for the Saudis, benevolent saviors of the planet!
Wait, wait, wait. Um, I think women are still property, so what you stated is only true for the males. Let's assume that is 50%. Are they still the benevolent saviours of the Syrian people?
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:37 pm
by mrswdk
notyou2 wrote:I think women are still property
Wrong. notyou2 is now banned from this thread.
And yes, even if we do it 'the notyou2 way' and only count men as real humans then SA has still taken on more Syrians than the UK, France and US combined.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:36 pm
by waauw
mrswdk wrote:Yeah, but the Saudis don't class the refugees as refugees. As OP says, they give them residence permits instead. These entitle them to free education, healthcare and give them the right to seek employment, which is more than a refugee in most Western countries would get judging by a brief Google search. And they have taken in more Syrians than the US, UK, France etc. combined!
Hooray for the Saudis, benevolent saviors of the planet!
What the hell are you talking about? Refugees are entitled to healthcare, employment and any right domestic civilians have. The only reason they don't get free education is because not even our citizens get that(not in most EU nations anyway). Most of our countries can't afford that.
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:Saudi-Arabia doesn't already have vast numbers of migrants residing in their country. In my own country, Belgium, more than 10% of the population is migrant. Most rich european countries have been sheltering migrants for more than 50 years.
We are not talking about migrants. We are talking about refugees.
When you general statement that the saudi's "more humanitarian than most EU countries", you have to take into account all Saudi policy.
Migrants are not a cost that a country needs to absorb. In general they are young, fit working age people who move to a different country to work. How does a country containing a relatively high number of migrants diminish its capacity to take refugees?
What, because immigrants don't pay the same taxes as native-born citizens?
http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html
They do, but it can take a lot of time and effort for them to integrate and many of them end up with shit jobs and shit pay, which then entitles them to government subsidies.
mrswdk wrote:They're not registered as refugees, but they're still people who were forced out of Syria by the war (meaning they are in the exact same boat* as the ones going to Europe).
*lol
The migrant populations in Saudi Arabia and the EU are completely different. Most migrants here come with the intention of becoming full fledged citizens, rather than temporary denizens. Ever wonder why poor migrants and fugitives prefer coming to europe over moving to the arab peninsula? We offer better labour protection, more freedom and better wages.
If you still think Saudi Arabia is more humanitarian than EU countries, perhaps you should ask yourself the question: What if civil war broke out in Iran? Would the Saudi's accept their sjiite fugitives?
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:41 pm
by waauw
Just for clarifying: I'm glad the Saudi's are accepting fugitives as well and I do think the EU could make a bigger effort, but I don't think the Saudi's are that big on humanitarian issues, not as much as the EU anyway.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:59 pm
by subtleknifewield
By the way I thought it was spelled Shiite, not Sjiite.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:01 pm
by subtleknifewield
Also even if the migrant/refugee eventually becomes a full-fledged citizen of the country they have migrated to...it still takes time, effort, and money to get them integrated properly into that society. The more of them there are...surprise, the more time, money and effort it takes. That is a fact of life.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:04 pm
by mrswdk
waauw wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Refugees are entitled to healthcare, employment and any right domestic civilians have. The only reason they don't get free education is because not even our citizens get that(not in most EU nations anyway). Most of our countries can't afford that.
wut? So most EU nations (including France, Germany, UK, Belgium, Netherlands etc.) do not provide state education to their citizens?
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:What, because immigrants don't pay the same taxes as native-born citizens?
http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html
They do, but it can take a lot of time and effort for them to integrate and many of them end up with shit jobs and shit pay, which then entitles them to government subsidies.
A whole bunch of studies (e.g. this one) have consistently shown that immigrants contribute more to a national economy than they receive from it in 'benefits'. Immigrants are totally irrelevant to a discussion about whether or not a country has the capacity to take in refugees and asylum seekers.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:06 pm
by subtleknifewield
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:What the hell are you talking about? Refugees are entitled to healthcare, employment and any right domestic civilians have. The only reason they don't get free education is because not even our citizens get that(not in most EU nations anyway). Most of our countries can't afford that.
wut? So most EU nations (including France, Germany, UK, Belgium, Netherlands etc.) do not provide state education to their citizens?
mrswdk wrote:
waauw wrote:What, because immigrants don't pay the same taxes as native-born citizens?
http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html
They do, but it can take a lot of time and effort for them to integrate and many of them end up with shit jobs and shit pay, which then entitles them to government subsidies.
A whole bunch of studies (e.g. this one) have consistently shown that immigrants contribute more to a national economy than they receive from it in 'benefits'. Immigrants are totally irrelevant to a discussion about whether or not a country has the capacity to take in refugees and asylum seekers.
Are they? Even when a country has finite resources? Sure they may contribute more...but there's still the resources you need to expend to integrate them in the first place...they don't immediately start contributing.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:08 pm
by mrswdk
Re 'integration': ‘Integrate' is just a buzzword used by people clutching for non-xenophobic justifications for the way they hate on immigrants. This Algerian guy moved to Germany and wasn't wearing lederhosen and dancing to oompa bands within 4 years of arrival, boohoo. Who cares?
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:09 pm
by mrswdk
subtleknifewield wrote:
mrswdk wrote:A whole bunch of studies (e.g. this one) have consistently shown that immigrants contribute more to a national economy than they receive from it in 'benefits'. Immigrants are totally irrelevant to a discussion about whether or not a country has the capacity to take in refugees and asylum seekers.
Are they? Even when a country has finite resources? Sure they may contribute more...but there's still the resources you need to expend to integrate them in the first place...they don't immediately start contributing.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:11 pm
by WingCmdr Ginkapo
The UK was built on migrant labour and still is. People to try and deny that.
(I'm not defending the UK in relation to Syria, pledging to take action by 2020 is completely pointless)
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:11 pm
by subtleknifewield
That isn't what integration means in this context, and you know it.
In this case it refers to what it takes to make them a functioning member of that society, not make them conform to every little whim of it.
And yes, I opened that link, my point still stands, because I am not accusing them of freeloading, I applaud their efforts. But it still takes resources to get resources, even in this case. Call it an investment--because investments are not meant to pay off right away.
Re: Saudi Arabia more humanitarian than most EU countries
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:01 am
Good joke
