Conquer Club

#1 Seychelles - 799
#2= USA - 698
#2= North Korea - 600-800 (estimated)
#7 Cuba - 510
#11 Thailand - 457
#13 Russia - 445
...
#37 Iran - 290
...
#87 China - 164
#92 Saudi Arabia - 161
#100 Australia - 151
#102 England & Wales* - 148
...
#142 Canada - 106
#144 Belgium - 105
#148 France - 100
#160 Italy - 86
#166 Germany - 78
...
#192 Syria - 60
#201 Japan - 49

*no figures available for UK as a whole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

All rates are per 100,000 population

(note: rankings differ from Wikipedia as they've been adjusted for the insertion of North Korea and raising of China's position)

America #2? Disappointed!

mrswdk wrote:#87 China - 164
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

All rates are per 100,000 population

Somehow im suspicious of that number for China. Does that only include the "official" numbers?

rishaed wrote:

mrswdk wrote:#87 China - 164
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

All rates are per 100,000 population

Somehow im suspicious of that number for China. Does that only include the "official" numbers?

Neither the 3.8 million that live in Tibet.


--Andy

Eh less than 1%.

-TG

Japan is so low because their country is all just degenerates anyway. Only normal people go to jail

rishaed wrote:

mrswdk wrote:#87 China - 164
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

All rates are per 100,000 population

Somehow im suspicious of that number for China. Does that only include the "official" numbers?

Literally all you had to do was follow the link and read the para explaining that the official data on sentenced prisoners is 118, but that if you add the estimated number of un-sentenced people being held in detention centers then that figure rises to 164.

So yes, whichever way you slice the data the US detains more than four times as many people as China. Sorry to contradict your Cold War propaganda poster view of the world.

seychelles has 89k inhabitants, so there are 711 incarcerated people total. I'm pretty sure that if you run this next year, the guys that stole an egg from a luth turtle will be released and won't do it again.

mrswdk wrote:Literally all you had to do was follow the link and read the para explaining that the official data on sentenced prisoners is 118, but that if you add the estimated number of un-sentenced people being held in detention centers then that figure rises to 164.

And if you had done that, you would have then found the information about the Chinese laogai, which by one estimate contain seven million people detained to serve forced hard labor. These seem to be conveniently left out of the official Chinese statistics, as that paragraph states that there are less than 700 thousand detained but not sentenced prisoners according to official Chinese information. Surely this was an honest oversight, as mrswdk has confirmed for us that China would never participate in despicable propaganda tactics. But if you did include those people, the Chinese number starts to look a lot like the American rate. Hm...

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Literally all you had to do was follow the link and read the para explaining that the official data on sentenced prisoners is 118, but that if you add the estimated number of un-sentenced people being held in detention centers then that figure rises to 164.

And if you had done that, you would have then found the information about the Chinese laogai, which by one estimate contain seven million people detained to serve forced hard labor. These seem to be conveniently left out of the official Chinese statistics, as that paragraph states that there are less than 700 thousand detained but not sentenced prisoners according to official Chinese information. Surely this was an honest oversight, as mrswdk has confirmed for us that China would never participate in despicable propaganda tactics. But if you did include those people, the Chinese number starts to look a lot like the American rate. Hm...

And if you had looked any further rather than an 8-year-old statistic from a lobbying organization, you would know that laogai has since been abolished. The 164 figure in the Wiki article I linked is the figure reached when all people held in administrative detention are counted.

So, nice attempt to point the finger elsewhere but no dice.

Let's imagine China's detention rate is just as high as America and North Korea. At what point will The Land of the Free stop pointing the finger at other people and acknowledge the log in its own eye?

betiko wrote:seychelles has 89k inhabitants, so there are 711 incarcerated people total. I'm pretty sure that if you run this next year, the guys that stole an egg from a luth turtle will be released and won't do it again.

Analyzing stats released by the Seychelles government must be a nightmare.

mrswdk wrote:And if you had looked any further rather than an 8-year-old statistic from a lobbying organization, you would know that laogai has since been abolished.

So you have evidence that these labor camps no longer exist? Source please.

Metsfanmax wrote:

mrswdk wrote:And if you had looked any further rather than an 8-year-old statistic from a lobbying organization, you would know that laogai has since been abolished.

So you have evidence that these labor camps no longer exist? Source please.

What's this - guilty until proven innocent? If you wish to make such ludicrous claims as 'China has 7 million people held in secret detention', the onus is on you to prove it.

Especially given that SPOILER ALERT I just looked at the source given for the '6.8 million people held in laogai' statistic you quoted, and page 18 of said source actually says '500,000 to 2 million' people were held in laogai in 2008 - 6.8 million is a total fabrication on the part of whoever vandalized that Wikipedia.

So even taking the very highest possible estimate made years prior to the abolition of the reform through labor system, that still only brings China's incarceration rate up to about half of America's.

lol - China
lol, mrs...

Yup, it is quite laughable!

So, now that we have obliterated Mets' absurd lies, let us return to a discussion of the facts presented in OP.

Where would you rather live - the Seychelles or the US? Both are clearly hellishly dangerous and oppressive, but both also have their upsides - the Seychelles has its tropical climate, sandy beaches and laid back lifestyle; America has abundant food and the strong leadership of Donald Trump. Where would you prefer to live?

mrswdk wrote:Yup, it is quite laughable!

So, now that we have obliterated Mets' absurd lies, let us return to a discussion of the facts presented in OP.

Where would you rather live - the Seychelles or the US? Both are clearly hellishly dangerous and oppressive, but both also have their upsides - the Seychelles has its tropical climate, sandy beaches and laid back lifestyle; America has abundant food and the strong leadership of Donald Trump. Where would you prefer to live?

Me me me!
I pick Seychelles! And a room in a 5 star resort! I heard it's the best scuba diving experience ever! We just need to respect the environment and be friendly with locals. I m pretty sure dropping your soap in the prison's shower is harmless though.

OZ prison didn't seem like a friendly environment, but it was a great show.

Yeah, we need to add some more countries which the people of OT can relate to, such as Canada and Australia. cba to click the link right now - what are their rates/rankings?

Rates for Serbia, pl0x.

I didn't see the Vatican....

Serbia wrote:Rates for Serbia, pl0x.

#140 (that should put it in the Top 100)

mrswdk wrote:Yup, it is quite laughable!

So, now that we have obliterated Mets' absurd lies, let us return to a discussion of the facts presented in OP.

Where would you rather live - the Seychelles or the US? Both are clearly hellishly dangerous and oppressive, but both also have their upsides - the Seychelles has its tropical climate, sandy beaches and laid back lifestyle; America has abundant food and the strong leadership of Donald Trump. Where would you prefer to live?

The United States.

Let's do this mrs!!! Remember... I'm a Libertarian.

mrswdk wrote:#1 Seychelles - 799
#2= USA - 698
#2= North Korea - 600-800 (estimated)
#6 Cuba - 510
#10 Thailand - 457
#12 Russia - 445
...
#36 Iran - 290
...
#87 China - 164
#90 Saudi Arabia - 161
#100 England & Wales* - 148
...
#147 France - 100
#159 Italy - 86
#165 Germany - 78
...
#191 Syria - 60
#200 Japan - 49

*no figures available for UK as a whole

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... ation_rate

All rates are per 100,000 population

This figure is silly. The US is artificially high when compared to countries like Syria and China because they execute criminals at a higher rate than most other countries on the list.

Show me a figure that combines incarcerations and executions in the data and then we'll talk.

GabonX wrote:This figure is silly. The US is artificially high when compared to countries like Syria and China because they execute criminals at a higher rate than most other countries on the list.

Show me a figure that combines incarcerations and executions in the data and then we'll talk.

Only if you can explain a) how a higher execution rate would lead to the US having a higher recorded incarceration rate (rather than a lower one), and b) why that would mean that America's incarceration rate somehow 'doesn't count'.