Conquer Club

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:56 pm**

Canadian cyclist Rachel McKinnon, who was born a man but identifies as a woman, continues to rack-up championship after championship competing in female cycling competitions, repeatedly blowing out the competition and setting new records by previously unimagined times in her sport. What a great story about how hard work can pay off!

https://news.sky.com/story/trans-cyclis ... s-11838131

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:00 pm**

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:08 pm**

This is ridiculous.

In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

The simple fact is that this person has an advantage over genetic females that is equivalent to or greater than that which one might gain by doing steroids which are banned.

The fact that this person doesn’t win every competition is not evidence that the playing field is fair, it’s evidence that this person really wouldn’t be very good if this person competed against a genetic equivalent... i.e. a professional male cyclist.

If you want to organize ‘open’ competitions where anyone can compete... fine. If you want to organize competitions where transgendered people compete against eachother... fine.

Men statistically have a huge genetic advantage over women when it comes to physical competition. You cannot remove that advantage.

People have a right to identify themselves and live their lives... but your rights and freedoms come to an end where they impact on the rights of others. This person demanding to compete as a female impacts the rights of genetic women who are no longer competing on a level playing field.

I’m sorry... a piece of paper, an operation, and the fact that people are afraid of the PC Police (Political Correctness Police)... these things don’t make you female. We as a society need to come to grips with all the various trans people. We need to do this is some ways by being more accepting in every. day situations... but we also need to acknowledge and recognize that this is really a ‘new’ sex/gender.. or more than one new gender. There needs to be additional genders so people can identify themselves without having to explain everything... and with. this new language we can recognize trans people’s rights while also recognizing that a MTF Transperson is NOT a female and should not compete against females in sport.

Maybe there can be ‘female’ competitions and ‘open’ competitions... and if enough trans people compete then maybe the ‘open’ competitions will be more popular and genetic females will compete because that’s where ‘the best’ go. I don;t see that happening but I don’t it’s fair to genetic women. This isn’t new.... there was a MTF Transperson MMA fighter and a tennis player. Even with gender reassignment surgery the advantages live on for a long long time.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:15 pm**

yeah, it is pretty stupid to let "her" compete against them - if i were a competitive female cyclist, i'd def. be crying foul. here's joe rogan's take on transgendered mma athletes :

*there is a longer vid about this, for any interested parties

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:59 pm**

jimboston wrote:Maybe there can be ‘female’ competitions and ‘open’ competitions... and if enough trans people compete then maybe the ‘open’ competitions will be more popular

Not really a sports person, but isn't that how it is already in most sports? Every time this comes up i see someone pointing out that most "men's" sports are actually open to anyone, the women just can't qualify and so women's sports are created to discriminate based on sex, otherwise the women wouldn't have a chance.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:19 pm**

Who knew the 35-39 age category sprint during the UCI Masters Track World Championships in Los Angeles had so many fans. Were you as shocked by the 2nd place finish by Svetlana Gorstein as I was? Just kidding I made that name up because I couldn't find any other information about the race beside furious galaxy brains upset that this race was RUINED.

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:24 pm**

spurgistan wrote:Who knew the 35-39 age category sprint during the UCI Masters Track World Championships in Los Angeles had so many fans. Were you as shocked by the 2nd place finish by Svetlana Gorstein as I was? Just kidding I made that name up because I couldn't find any other information about the race beside furious galaxy brains upset that this race was RUINED.

outta site, outta mind. Am i right?

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:32 pm**

spurgistan wrote:Who knew the 35-39 age category sprint during the UCI Masters Track World Championships in Los Angeles had so many fans. Were you as shocked by the 2nd place finish by Svetlana Gorstein as I was? Just kidding I made that name up because I couldn't find any other information about the race beside furious galaxy brains upset that this race was RUINED.

To be honest, I agree with spurgistan that women's sports are a joke and Sky is spending too much time covering this. Let a human identifying giraffe compete for all I care. As spurgistan notes, it ain't exactly the Tour de France!

I just thought it was funny all the fat lesbians complaining about how all these records no one cares about are being broken. It's like when WNBA or girl soccer players whine about what they earn at their little hobby. No one cares, ladies! Now make me a sandwich!

Posted: **Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:10 pm**

Transgenders proving once again there are only 2 genders..

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:46 am**

jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:00 am**

mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

boooooo - down with mrswdk

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:12 am**

saxitoxin wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

boooooo - down with mrswdk

C'mon bro, I'm trying to give you your in to the football team here.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:21 am**

mrswdk wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

boooooo - down with mrswdk

C'mon bro, I'm trying to give you your in to the football team here.

seems like you're just mad you could never be an astronaut

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:45 am**

saxitoxin wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

boooooo - down with mrswdk

C'mon bro, I'm trying to give you your in to the football team here.

seems like you're just mad you could never be an astronaut

I send my sexual partners to the moon with my great and unmatched skills in the sack.

mrs = astronaut
saxi = astronought

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:43 am**

holy shit, saxi been knocked out of the solar system with that one!

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:58 am**

Buzz Aldrin more like Buzz Off amirite??? Hello!!!

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:01 am**

Rabbit season?

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:17 am**

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
jimboston wrote:Maybe there can be ‘female’ competitions and ‘open’ competitions... and if enough trans people compete then maybe the ‘open’ competitions will be more popular

Not really a sports person, but isn't that how it is already in most sports? Every time this comes up i see someone pointing out that most "men's" sports are actually open to anyone, the women just can't qualify and so women's sports are created to discriminate based on sex, otherwise the women wouldn't have a chance.

That’s one interpretation. I won’t disagree.

In which case this Transperson should be competing in the “Open/Men’s” division and not in the female division.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:20 am**

spurgistan wrote:Who knew the 35-39 age category sprint during the UCI Masters Track World Championships in Los Angeles had so many fans. Were you as shocked by the 2nd place finish by Svetlana Gorstein as I was? Just kidding I made that name up because I couldn't find any other information about the race beside furious galaxy brains upset that this race was RUINED.

This may be a minor example in a minor sport.... but that doesn’t make it less valid.

I’m not furious... I’m just stating that this type of issue will ruin sporting for true genetic women.

It may or may not be important to you or to people who are watching... but it seems like it would be important to the competitors.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:23 am**

saxitoxin wrote:
spurgistan wrote:Who knew the 35-39 age category sprint during the UCI Masters Track World Championships in Los Angeles had so many fans. Were you as shocked by the 2nd place finish by Svetlana Gorstein as I was? Just kidding I made that name up because I couldn't find any other information about the race beside furious galaxy brains upset that this race was RUINED.

To be honest, I agree with spurgistan that women's sports are a joke and Sky is spending too much time covering this. Let a human identifying giraffe compete for all I care. As spurgistan notes, it ain't exactly the Tour de France!

I just thought it was funny all the fat lesbians complaining about how all these records no one cares about are being broken. It's like when WNBA or girl soccer players whine about what they earn at their little hobby. No one cares, ladies! Now make me a sandwich!

I’m not a big fan of women’s sports either... it I do find a few interesting.
Women’s Tennis, Women’s Beach Volleyball, and Women’s Soccer

If you’re not a fan or a competitor then your opinion isn’t really valid.

If this becomes acceptable in one sport that sets precedent for other sports.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:28 am**

In other news:

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/trans-woman-who-complained-salons-wouldn-t-wax-genitalia-ordered-to-pay-6k-1.4651311

ANCOUVER – The B.C. Human Rights Tribunal has dismissed more than half a dozen complaints from a transgender woman who accused local salon workers of discrimination because they refused to wax her male genitalia.

The tribunal also ordered the complainant, Jessica Yaniv, to pay $2,000 each to all three of the estheticians who filed a defence in the case.

Jay Cameron of the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, a non-profit law firm that represented the women, said one of his clients was so relieved by the decision that she broke down in tears.

Jessica Yaniv filed human rights complaints against a number of B.C. home salons, alleging she was discriminated against when they refused to provide waxing services.

"It's more than an inconvenience to have a human rights complaint against you alleging publicly that you're some sort of transphobe," Cameron told CTV News. "That's a very serious allegation in today's culture and it's debilitating. It really altered their lives for the past year-and-a-half."

Another four women did not participate in the process and won't receive any financial compensation.

Though the basic premise of Yaniv's complaints triggered a wave of online outrage, the tribunal found they drew attention to an "under-studied area of public life" that warranted exploring.

In the end, however, tribunal member Devyn Cousineau accused Yaniv of abusing the process.

Yaniv gave "inconsistent and untruthful evidence," was evasive on key questions, and even improperly demanded a payout of $500,000 in an attempt to pressure one of the respondents into a settlement, according to Cousineau's written decision.

"Ms. Yaniv deliberately sought to weaponize the tribunal for financial gain," Cousineau said, even accusing the complainant of "a pattern of filing human rights complaints … to punish certain ethnic groups which she perceives as hostile to the rights of LGBTQ+ people."

Most of the salon workers were immigrants to Canada who did not speak English as their first language, and all provided their services either at their own home or at the homes of their clients.

The case hinged on the question of whether they generally performed waxing on men's bodies. The tribunal determined the answer was no, and that some of them actively avoided doing so for religious and cultural reasons.

And while Yaniv argued her gender identity as a woman entitled her to those services anyway, the tribunal found there are nuances to the issue that separate it from clear-cut incidents of anti-LGBTQ2 discrimination.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:32 am**

mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

You could argue that... but then you’d be an idiot.

We separate men and women in sporting because men and women are different. It’s called nature.

Yes... nature also provides some individuals with other advantages, like height and strength.

It also provides advantages like brains, and eyesight, and hand-eye coordination, and the ability to think/response fast, and the ability to deal with stress...etc. etc. etc.

Some of these natural advantages can be augmented with training and work and will... others can’t.
This is life.

Even with size / strength advantages and man with other skills and will and work still go on to compete against other men in athletics.
These physiological difference are too great for women to seriously compete against men in sports.
(This does not mean all men are more athletic than all women... please don’t try to put words in my mouth.)

This is why sports are separated by sex.

Other competitions are not separated by sex because the advantages conferred by sex (if any) are not insurmountable.

Men and women can compete fairly in spelling bee’s, in chess, in poker, etc.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:47 am**

jimboston wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
jimboston wrote:In my mind this invalidates the sport. If people think this is right/fair then we should eliminate ‘female cycling’ competitions and ‘male cycling’ competitions... and just have cycling competitions where both males and females compete against eachother.

You could perfectly validly argue that it makes no sense to segregate any sports on sex, given sex is just used as a proxy for size/strength.

What about all the little men who have no chance at becoming sports stars, simply because they are smaller and weaker and less effective at sports than other men? Basketball stands out as being a particularly height-ist (read: fascist) sport but you could level this criticism at any competitive sport where size or strength are factors in success.

Perhaps it should be like boxing, and sports should all be segregated based on physiological categories? Then unlike the current situation across sports, where everyone watches men's sport and ignores women's sport*, we could have a new, modern, 24th century situation where people watch Gender-Neutral Super Body Sports and ignore all the others.

*except the athletics and maybe the tennis too, you know why

You could argue that... but then you’d be an idiot.

We separate men and women in sporting because men and women are different. It’s called nature.

"YoU iDiOt, It'S cAlLeD nAtUrE!!"

Another well-reasoned and considered jimboston retort.

These physiological difference are too great for women to seriously compete against men in sports.

Which is funny because in my post I explicitly stated that it might be a good idea for sports to be segregated based on physiological differences. I just suggested it might possible to make that distinction in more nuanced way than the existing 'man/woman' system used by most sports. So it would appear that you agree with me and once again are just arguing with me for the sake of being contrary. Your avatar really is apt.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:05 am**

jimboston wrote:We separate men and women in sporting because men and women are different. It’s called nature.

Actually the original reason wasn't "nature" but "locker rooms." Not all men are the same; not all women are the same. Each has their own bell curve. Certainly with all sports worth watching, we base things on the far end of the bell curve. In this case men have the advantage over women. But that doesn't mean that there can be complexity somewhere in the middle.

Posted: **Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:19 am**

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:holy shit, saxi been knocked out of the solar system with that one!

Not quite. I'm not one of mrswdk's alleged sexual partners, though he wishes I was.

Conquer Club

Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!

Re: Trans Woman CRUSHING Competition in Female Athletics!