Conquer Club

Most of you are probably aware that right wing political commentator Matt Walsh created the film, "What is a Woman" last year. It was streaming on the Daily Wire, which required a membership in order to view any content. The film is streaming on Twitter this weekend, so if you've been curious to see what the film actually had to say and didn't want to pay for it (or give Daily Wire any of your money), you have an opportunity to do so:
https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/statu ... jnnJkuAAAA

I thought it was also free on YouTube? Fascinating discussion…unfortunately many pro or against get to emotional and angry too dialogue and discuss.

----------A 100 pounds of Clay... ....Gene McDaniels........ Can't you see HIM(GOD)...picking clay up off the ground...Doing just what HE should do...To make a living dream come true...A whole new world began...HE created a Woman, and a lots of loving for a Man... ...HE did it, with just 100 pounds of Clay... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing. Because I do think part of the problem facing this country and perhaps world, is tribalism and people just digging in on their side. I WANT to understand people who don't believe what I believe.

But there's one thing that is already abundantly clear, less than 10 minutes in, and I'd imagine it would be to anyone who isn't predisposed to really be on this guy's side. He's not innocently "asking questions" and approaching this from a standpoint of just trying to find answers and resolve genuine curiosity, despite his folksy demeanor and faux self-deprecation.

No, he has an agenda and starts making straw man arguments within the first 2 minutes of the video. "Our culture is telling us that the differences between boys and girls don't matter." Who is really saying that? Nobody I've talked to. That statement is, at best a massively oversimplified take on what is being talked about and, at worst, an intentional misrepresentation of the side he quite clearly opposes. And, yes, I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could find some quote to that end, maybe taken out of context. Maybe someone has argued that we shouldn't inflict gender norms on everyone and you confused that to mean that there's no difference between girls and boys. However, as someone who is inclined to be on the side that allows more fluidity in this space, I can assure you my motivation is NOT borne from the idea that "differences between girls and boys don't matter."

So, with that in mind, I don't have high hopes for the rest of the video, because he is positioning it to be a very biased, agenda-based, right wing propaganda piece cloaked as a man humbly going through life trying to find answers.

But, as I said. I'll try.

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing.

That was your first mistake. The supply of half-brained culture wars content on social media is basically endless.

One real life story.

A very close friend's brother decided to identify as a woman. 60 years old at the time and a 250 lb marine. This dude was the opposite of feminine (but what's feminine? )

Anyway, changed name, wore dresses, hair, makeup, voice, mannerisms...started taking a veritable smorgasbord of pills to grow breasts, yadda yadda.

#1 it ruined his family.
#2 the pills killed him.

Now he identifies as worm food.

Problem solved. Really super sad.....

Well, I made it about halfway. Dude doesn't appear to be remotely genuine in his search for "the truth", so I honestly no longer feel compelled to continue watching his charade.

This is the definition of an echo chamber. Something made to make people who already agree with you say "Hell yeah!" NOT a genuine conversation starter to foster meaningful dialogue on the topic.

Sounds like an overblown "social experiment."

"he has an agenda and starts making straw man arguments within the first 2 minutes of the video."


This doesn't convince anyone on the fence and you have to be pretty stupid and on the ignorant side of the culture wars to buy into this.
.

We are obsessed with definitions in our culture, and it breaks my heart. If we can't label it, we don't seem to be able to accept it. I don't care what any of you think a women is, some of you have shared what your think a women is, that's fine. Other people define it as less about body parts, that's fine. For Saxi the definition is simple, a women is: 'locked up in my basement', for ralph it's :'what I spent a decade on CC pretending to be'. For Jim it's: 'someone you marry and then share with many bulls so she won't leave'. None of this makes a material difference in my life, and you can all go f*ck yourselves.

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing. Because I do think part of the problem facing this country and perhaps world, is tribalism and people just digging in on their side. I WANT to understand people who don't believe what I believe.

But there's one thing that is already abundantly clear, less than 10 minutes in, and I'd imagine it would be to anyone who isn't predisposed to really be on this guy's side. He's not innocently "asking questions" and approaching this from a standpoint of just trying to find answers and resolve genuine curiosity, despite his folksy demeanor and faux self-deprecation.

No, he has an agenda and starts making straw man arguments within the first 2 minutes of the video. "Our culture is telling us that the differences between boys and girls don't matter." Who is really saying that? Nobody I've talked to. That statement is, at best a massively oversimplified take on what is being talked about and, at worst, an intentional misrepresentation of the side he quite clearly opposes. And, yes, I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could find some quote to that end, maybe taken out of context. Maybe someone has argued that we shouldn't inflict gender norms on everyone and you confused that to mean that there's no difference between girls and boys. However, as someone who is inclined to be on the side that allows more fluidity in this space, I can assure you my motivation is NOT borne from the idea that "differences between girls and boys don't matter."

So, with that in mind, I don't have high hopes for the rest of the video, because he is positioning it to be a very biased, agenda-based, right wing propaganda piece cloaked as a man humbly going through life trying to find answers.

But, as I said. I'll try.

So you acknowledge there is a biological difference between men and women?

bigtoughralf wrote:

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing.

That was your first mistake. The supply of half-brained culture wars content on social media is basically endless.

So you just don’t even consider his (Matt Walsh’s) view.

Obviously the documentarian has an opinion which he is trying to argue for… this is the case for basically any/all political documentaries. Just want any Roger Moore movie. He certainly has an agenda… and he’s certainly liberal… but it doesn’t negate the fact that he make some compelling arguments in (at least some) of his movies.

detlef wrote:Well, I made it about halfway. Dude doesn't appear to be remotely genuine in his search for "the truth", so I honestly no longer feel compelled to continue watching his charade.

This is the definition of an echo chamber. Something made to make people who already agree with you say "Hell yeah!" NOT a genuine conversation starter to foster meaningful dialogue on the topic.

He obviously is biased… all political videos are biased in some way.

Your inability to watch just demonstrates the fact that you are closed-minded. I listen to podcasts from BOTH… NPR and The Dailey Wire. Being able to parse-out the ‘fact’ from the opinion… being able to notice when language is subtlety used to push an agenda. It takes some effort and brains.

I don’t know if you have the brains to do this… but you clearly don’t want to put in the effort.

Even if you disagree with him you can’t claim he doesn’t make some valid points.

You even have less standing to make that claim given that you are unwilling to watch it.

I love it when a College Professor claims that the phrase “Getting to the Truth” is “Transphobic”.
Why is a college professor afraid of facts and truth? Why is a discussion “transphobic”?

jimboston wrote:

bigtoughralf wrote:

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing.

That was your first mistake. The supply of half-brained culture wars content on social media is basically endless.

So you just don’t even consider his (Matt Walsh’s) view.

Obviously the documentarian has an opinion which he is trying to argue for… this is the case for basically any/all political documentaries. Just want any Roger Moore movie. He certainly has an agenda… and he’s certainly liberal… but it doesn’t negate the fact that he make some compelling arguments in (at least some) of his movies.

Do you mean MICHAEL Moore, and not Roger Moore. Roger Moore played James Bond and I think the role as The Saint, on TV. I think you are confused, jimb.

jimboston wrote:

bigtoughralf wrote:

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing.

That was your first mistake. The supply of half-brained culture wars content on social media is basically endless.

So you just don’t even consider his (Matt Walsh’s) view.

Why would I? I barely even care about the 'debate' in the first place, let alone what some Twitter rando has to say about it.

This thread sounded like it'd be so much more fun from the title.

jusplay4fun wrote:

jimboston wrote:

bigtoughralf wrote:

detlef wrote:Okay, I'm trying. I really am. It is my intention to be a good sport and watch this whole thing.

That was your first mistake. The supply of half-brained culture wars content on social media is basically endless.

So you just don’t even consider his (Matt Walsh’s) view.

Obviously the documentarian has an opinion which he is trying to argue for… this is the case for basically any/all political documentaries. Just want any Roger Moore movie. He certainly has an agenda… and he’s certainly liberal… but it doesn’t negate the fact that he make some compelling arguments in (at least some) of his movies.

Do you mean MICHAEL Moore, and not Roger Moore. Roger Moore played James Bond and I think the role as The Saint, on TV. I think you are confused, jimb.

LOL

Yes… I did mean Michael Moore. Thanks for the correction.

I however choose to identify Michael Moore as the actor Roger Moore… therefore, technically per the laws of woke identity politics, I’m not REALLY wrong here.

jimboston wrote:

detlef wrote:Well, I made it about halfway. Dude doesn't appear to be remotely genuine in his search for "the truth", so I honestly no longer feel compelled to continue watching his charade.

This is the definition of an echo chamber. Something made to make people who already agree with you say "Hell yeah!" NOT a genuine conversation starter to foster meaningful dialogue on the topic.

He obviously is biased… all political videos are biased in some way.

Your inability to watch just demonstrates the fact that you are closed-minded. I listen to podcasts from BOTH… NPR and The Dailey Wire. Being able to parse-out the ‘fact’ from the opinion… being able to notice when language is subtlety used to push an agenda. It takes some effort and brains.

I don’t know if you have the brains to do this… but you clearly don’t want to put in the effort.

Even if you disagree with him you can’t claim he doesn’t make some valid points.

You even have less standing to make that claim given that you are unwilling to watch it.

I love it when a College Professor claims that the phrase “Getting to the Truth” is “Transphobic”.
Why is a college professor afraid of facts and truth? Why is a discussion “transphobic”?

First off, I gave him 45 minutes of my time, which was becoming more and more clear, was more than he deserved.

Of course YOU liked it, YOU are the target audience. That's my point. It was clearly not intended to inspire meaningful discussion on it or he wouldn't have started in, right out of the gate, with bullshit representations of how the other side apparently feels about things. That was to get you angry and ready to lap up the next 90 minutes of propaganda, not to say, "Hey detlef, let's talk about this."

And, I get it, he's right wing. There's gonna be a slant and I knew that going in. And had he not insulted my intelligence from the beginning and played up his folksy "just a guy trying to understand" shtick, I may have hung in longer. But I didn't. I'd seen enough to realize that he was not "looking for answers" he was just on a soap box.

Beyond that, don't pretend to know a fucking thing about me. You've shown enough of yourself in this and other posts for me to understand that arguing or "discussing" with you will be pointless, so I'm not likely to continue this thread with you beyond this post.

GaryDenton wrote:Eve was the first transsexual and the first clone, made from Adam's rib.

Huh?

Are you making this argument based on a work of fiction?

GaryDenton wrote:"he has an agenda and starts making straw man arguments within the first 2 minutes of the video."


This doesn't convince anyone on the fence and you have to be pretty stupid and on the ignorant side of the culture wars to buy into this.
.

It’s unclear if you are criticizing the video or the comment.

detlef wrote:And, I get it, he's right wing. There's gonna be a slant and I knew that going in. And had he not insulted my intelligence from the beginning and played up his folksy "just a guy trying to understand" shtick, I may have hung in longer. But I didn't. I'd seen enough to realize that he was not "looking for answers" he was just on a soap box.

Yet no one seems to be able to answer the basic question.

detlef wrote:Beyond that, don't pretend to know a fucking thing about me.

I know enough to know you are intellectually immature.

detlef wrote:You've shown enough of yourself in this and other posts for me to understand that arguing or "discussing" with you will be pointless, so I'm not likely to continue this thread with you beyond this post.

How so… I have been clear about what parts of the Trans-Movement offends me. I can copy & paste my thoughts here. I’m happy to argue point by point. I don’t agree with Matt Walsh 100%. Example… he’s extremely offended by the “transing of the kids”… I am only mildly offended by this. I don;t really like the idea of our medical establishment giving these drugs and performing this surgery on minors. I wouldn’t want it to happen to my kids… so I think parental consent should be required… but I honestly don;t care too much if some crazy parent wants to abuse their crazy kid. So long as I don;t have to pay for it. (Though likely I’ll pay in the end… as the gov’t will tax me to pay for it.). Morally however… I don’t fucking care. Matt here is guided by religion… I’m not.

I still maintain I’m the most balanced and bipartisan regular in this forum. This issue mainly offends me when the movement puts the “rights” of Transfolk ahead of the rights of NORMAL people.

jimboston wrote:

detlef wrote:Well, I made it about halfway. Dude doesn't appear to be remotely genuine in his search for "the truth", so I honestly no longer feel compelled to continue watching his charade.

This is the definition of an echo chamber. Something made to make people who already agree with you say "Hell yeah!" NOT a genuine conversation starter to foster meaningful dialogue on the topic.

He obviously is biased… all political videos are biased in some way.

Your inability to watch just demonstrates the fact that you are closed-minded. I listen to podcasts from BOTH… NPR and The Dailey Wire. Being able to parse-out the ‘fact’ from the opinion… being able to notice when language is subtlety used to push an agenda. It takes some effort and brains.

I don’t know if you have the brains to do this… but you clearly don’t want to put in the effort.

Even if you disagree with him you can’t claim he doesn’t make some valid points.

You even have less standing to make that claim given that you are unwilling to watch it.

I love it when a College Professor claims that the phrase “Getting to the Truth” is “Transphobic”.
Why is a college professor afraid of facts and truth? Why is a discussion “transphobic”?

This is rich, calling someone close minded after having a mental breakdown about a budlight ad. Lol.

I'm prepared to have a civil discussion with Doc or MTIce about this. Largely because I believe them to be level-headed and reasonable. So, they are the people I'm prepared to debate on this. I mean, I assume they're on the other side of the issue as I am. I suppose that may not be the case.

Then again, I'm not sure the world needs another round of straight, gender-traditional dudes debating and defining things like this for everyone, so I'm equally fine with just dropping it and recognizing that this is unlikely to get solved in the derelict reaches of the CC forums.

jimboston wrote:I still maintain I’m the most balanced and bipartisan regular in this forum.

For this comment jim wins one play of R&B classic 'More Than A Woman':

MTIceman41 wrote:I thought it was also free on YouTube? Fascinating discussion…unfortunately many pro or against get to emotional and angry too dialogue and discuss.

It seems to be the Pro Trans Lib Wokey’s who are afraid to talk.