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SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

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SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:58 am

The Supreme Court, in the second-to-last day of this year's session, ruled that it's a violation of the 14th Amendment for universities that receive federal funding to use race to admit students.

    In the majority:
    - Gorsuch (Trump)
    - Barrett (Trump)
    - Kavanaugh (Trump)
    - Thomas (Bush)
    - Roberts (Bush)
    - Alito (Bush)

    Dissenting:
    - Sotomayor (Obama)
    - Kagan (Obama)
    - Jackson (Biden)


Harvard had been admitting students in such a way that your relative chance of acceptance correlated to the below table. An Asian student in the 10th decile (4.0 GPA and 1600 SAT score) had a 13% chance of admission while a Black student in the 10th decile (4.0 GPA and 1600 SAT score) had a 56% chance of admission.

Image

Roberts wrote the majority opinion:

For the reasons provided above, the Harvard and UNC admissions programs cannot be reconciled with the guarantees of the Equal Protection Clause. Both programs lack sufficiently focused and measurable objectives warranting the use of race, unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve racial stereotyping, and lack meaningful end points. We have never permitted admissions programs to work in that way, and we will not do so today.

At the same time, as all parties agree, nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. See, e.g., 4 App. in No. 21–707, at 17251726, 1741; Tr. of Oral Arg. in No. 20–1199, at 10. But, despite the dissent’s assertion to the contrary, universities may not simply establish through application essays or other means the regime we hold unlawful today.

It is so ordered.


Thomas separately concurred:

Given the history of discrimination against Asian Americans, especially their history with segregated schools, it seems particularly incongruous to suggest that a past history of segregationist policies toward blacks should be remedied at the expense of Asian American college applicants.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:28 pm

Biden has gone on a rant, screaming he will not let this Supreme Court decision stand. He went on to imply the court was "rogue" and illegitimate and made vague threats towards it.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/biden-sto ... -from-cnn/

Why is Biden so adamant about Asians not getting into Harvard?
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jun 29, 2023 12:32 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Biden has gone on a rant, screaming he will not let this Supreme Court decision stand. He went on to imply the court was "rogue" and illegitimate and made vague threats towards it.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/biden-sto ... -from-cnn/

Why is Biden so adamant about Asians not getting into Harvard?


I think he sees this as the thin edge of the wedge. It's going to be used as a precedent for eventually dismantling all affirmative action. And while my crystal ball is imperfect, I think he might be right about that.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 1:30 pm

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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:17 pm

Here are three more affirmative action hires by Biden:

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I got a "2-fer" in the 2nd photo image
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Jun 29, 2023 3:26 pm

The racism today in the forums is palpable lol.

Any other pictures of darker skinned people who you guys want to claim only made it because affirmative action?

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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:09 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:The racism today in the forums is palpable lol.

Any other pictures of darker skinned people who you guys want to claim only made it because affirmative action?


mayor Pete is dark-skinned? I thought he is a white gay guy.

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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:26 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:The racism today in the forums is palpable lol.

Any other pictures of darker skinned people who you guys want to claim only made it because affirmative action?


mayor Pete is dark-skinned? I thought he is a white gay guy.

Image


So you were suggesting mayor Pete was hired through affirmative action?
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:46 pm

Yes.

And he is not dark-skinned; he is a gay white guy.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jimboston on Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:58 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Biden has gone on a rant, screaming he will not let this Supreme Court decision stand. He went on to imply the court was "rogue" and illegitimate and made vague threats towards it.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/biden-sto ... -from-cnn/

Why is Biden so adamant about Asians not getting into Harvard?


I think he sees this as the thin edge of the wedge. It's going to be used as a precedent for eventually dismantling all affirmative action. And while my crystal ball is imperfect, I think he might be right about that.


The “slippery slide arguement”.

Like how the Left said 20 years ago they wanted gay marriage so gay peeps in monogamous relationships could will things to eachother, share spousal benefits, and visit eachother in the hospital; and that was IT there was no further agenda.

Fast-forward twenty years and now men compete against women in sports and they are looking to Trans our kids.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:07 pm

Ketanji Brown-Jackson is, by definition, an affirmative action hire. Biden specifically said she was selected because she was a Black woman. (She is certainly qualified to sit on the Supreme Court but the circumstances of her selection make her an affirmative action hire nonetheless and she will always be remembered as one.)

Clarence Thomas is not, by definition, an affirmative action hire. George H.W. Bush said he was selected due to his legal qualifications as a circuit court judge, EEOC chairman, Deputy Attorney General of Missouri, and Yale Law graduate.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:10 pm

I don't believe we have objective evidence that Mayor Pete was an affirmative action hire. Biden claimed Pete - as Mayor of South Bend, Indiana (population 100,000) with a B.A. degree in English Literature - was the most qualified person alive to run the United States' transportation infrastructure.

That may have been an ... interesting ... evaluation of Pete's credentials, but in the absence of an overt statement that he was hired strictly due to the fact that he's a Vers Dom and gets smashed every second Saturday by Chasten I don't think we can say he was an Affirmative Action hire.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby bigtoughralf on Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:19 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
    In the majority:
    - Gorsuch (Trump)
    - Barrett (Trump)
    - Kavanaugh (Trump)
    - Thomas (Bush)
    - Roberts (Bush)
    - Alito (Bush)

    Dissenting:
    - Sotomayor (Obama)
    - Kagan (Obama)
    - Jackson (Biden)


'Independent judiciary'

If the US implementation of its three branches of government were mirrored in the Middle East or Africa, US media would call it a tinpot dictatorship.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 5:25 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
    In the majority:
    - Gorsuch (Trump)
    - Barrett (Trump)
    - Kavanaugh (Trump)
    - Thomas (Bush)
    - Roberts (Bush)
    - Alito (Bush)

    Dissenting:
    - Sotomayor (Obama)
    - Kagan (Obama)
    - Jackson (Biden)


'Independent judiciary'

If the US implementation of its three branches of government were mirrored in the Middle East or Africa, US media would call it a tinpot dictatorship.


To be fair, something like 70% of all rulings are decided by a 7-2, 8-1 or 9-0 verdict. Ideologically split decisions are the exception.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby bigtoughralf on Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:20 pm

So 70% of rulings are boring open-and-shut procedural things, the other 30% are the ones relating to contentious high-profile issues?
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:53 pm

jimboston wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Biden has gone on a rant, screaming he will not let this Supreme Court decision stand. He went on to imply the court was "rogue" and illegitimate and made vague threats towards it.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/biden-sto ... -from-cnn/

Why is Biden so adamant about Asians not getting into Harvard?


I think he sees this as the thin edge of the wedge. It's going to be used as a precedent for eventually dismantling all affirmative action. And while my crystal ball is imperfect, I think he might be right about that.


The “slippery slide arguement”.

Like how the Left said 20 years ago they wanted gay marriage so gay peeps in monogamous relationships could will things to eachother, share spousal benefits, and visit eachother in the hospital; and that was IT there was no further agenda.

Fast-forward twenty years and now men compete against women in sports and they are looking to Trans our kids.


Welcome to the party Jimbo! We've already been calling out blacks and gays, thanks for stopping by and adding Trans people to the dumpster fire of bigotry that is this thread.

This thread seems like an awfully good candidate for transfer to the street corner
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:56 pm

Really this is like the first pro-asian thread we've seen in a long time, too bad Mrsdyk isn't here to see it. Saxi & Jimbo both taking the same side in favor of empowering asian in america.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:16 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:Really this is like the first pro-asian thread we've seen in a long time, too bad Mrsdyk isn't here to see it. Saxi & Jimbo both taking the same side in favor of empowering asian in america.


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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:22 pm

As we discuss affirmative action (giving blacks in America preferential treatment in many things, such as college admission [in this specific case], hiring, and job promotions), two Supreme Court justices were having a discussion about affirmative action. The question is how long do we as a country keep affirmative action as a policy, legal and in actions. The answer was, "we do not end affirmative action now. But I am not forever."**

This discussion involved Sandra Day O'Connor, who was appointed to the SCOTUS by President Reagan. O'Connor was on the Supreme Court from 1981 to 2006. My recollection is that this conversation occurred in reference to the 2003 decision of the case of Grutter v. Bollinger.

** This is my paraphrase, based on my recollection

Here is a quote of what O'Connor said:
In her opinion in Grutter v. Bollinger, Justice Sandra Day O’Connor concluded that affirmative action in college admissions is justifiable, but not in perpetuity: “We expect that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest [in student body diversity] approved today.”


So perhaps the need ended 5 years early.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Dr. Martin Luther King

This is Dr. King's dream and my firm hope. As far as I know, his 4 children are still alive. I think today we are at least one step closer to Dr. King's dream.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:39 pm

All joking aside, that was actually one of the arguments Harvard made, that SCOTUS should allow it to continue for five more years based on SDOC's 25 years comment. In other words:
    - December 31, 2027: America is Racist
    - January 1, 2028: No Longer Racist

(Now, of course, obviously it wasn't a good faith argument. They were just trying to stall for time hoping two justices would have heart attacks between now and then.)
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jusplay4fun on Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:51 pm

saxitoxin wrote:All joking aside, that was actually one of the arguments Harvard made, that SCOTUS should allow it to continue for five more years based on SDOC's 25 years comment. In other words:
    - December 31, 2027: America is Racist
    - January 1, 2028: No Longer Racist

(Now, of course, obviously it wasn't a good faith argument. They were just trying to stall for time hoping two justices would have heart attacks between now and then.)


Ruth Bader Ginsburg tried to beat the odds and lost.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jimboston on Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:22 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:Really this is like the first pro-asian thread we've seen in a long time, too bad Mrsdyk isn't here to see it. Saxi & Jimbo both taking the same side in favor of empowering asian in america.


We don’t need to “empower” Asain-Americans. They empower themselves by working hard, getting good grades, being disciplined, and maintaining strong traditional families.

Perhaps if other “underrepresented” groups followed their example we wouldn’t have to even have this conversation.
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby jimboston on Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:24 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
jimboston wrote:The “slippery slide arguement”.

Like how the Left said 20 years ago they wanted gay marriage so gay peeps in monogamous relationships could will things to eachother, share spousal benefits, and visit eachother in the hospital; and that was IT there was no further agenda.

Fast-forward twenty years and now men compete against women in sports and they are looking to Trans our kids.


Welcome to the party Jimbo! We've already been calling out blacks and gays, thanks for stopping by and adding Trans people to the dumpster fire of bigotry that is this thread.

This thread seems like an awfully good candidate for transfer to the street corner


Since when it pointing out historical facts “bigotry”? When it doesn’t fit the New Left’s extreme agenda?
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby mookiemcgee on Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:27 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:All joking aside, that was actually one of the arguments Harvard made, that SCOTUS should allow it to continue for five more years based on SDOC's 25 years comment. In other words:
    - December 31, 2027: America is Racist
    - January 1, 2028: No Longer Racist

(Now, of course, obviously it wasn't a good faith argument. They were just trying to stall for time hoping two justices would have heart attacks between now and then.)


Ruth Bader Ginsburg tried to beat the odds and lost.


Just another affirmative action hire, who cares amiright?
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Re: SCOTUS Rules Race-Based Admissions Unconstitutional

Postby bigtoughralf on Fri Jun 30, 2023 2:48 am

jimboston wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:Really this is like the first pro-asian thread we've seen in a long time, too bad Mrsdyk isn't here to see it. Saxi & Jimbo both taking the same side in favor of empowering asian in america.


We don’t need to “empower” Asain-Americans. They empower themselves by *Looney Tunes racial stereotypes removed*.


Look at the table in saxi's OP. All things being equal in terms of academic ability and performance, people with Asian heritage are less likely than any other ethnic group (including white) to be admitted to US universities.

In academia just as in pretty much every other area of western societies, Asians are the 'forgotten' group that gets trodden all over because acknowledging racism against them isn't trendy.
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