Why are High Ranks afraid of each other?

[jiminski]

Browsing through games it's always amusing that triples or quadruples are filled with 2 or 3 High Ranks on a team with no challengers. And when they do start to fill up...it's always with Low Ranks...you pretty much never see a High Rank sign up to oppose.

So...I was wondering...why do the high ranks fear each other?

I was playing against the tag team of Gustaf (something or other) and Crash. Gustaf said it was because all of the other High Ranks are afraid to play him. Yet...I don't exactly see him jumping in line to play against games started by High Ranks...

So...I was just curious as to why that is.

The reason is: good teams, who know each other, set up together.
Now everyone knows that these guys are good and familiar with each other, so you need to be well organised to compete and hope to win.

therefore either 3 random players will join gradually as you describe (so you will see a high ranked team and 1 or two lower ranked, likely newer players)
Or another similar team will join immediately and all at once, having previously communicated the intent to join. (you will therefore not see this happen .. blink and you will miss it)

therefore it is not a gradual build-up in the second case as they do not want to get into a team with an unknown player who may be brilliant and perfectly suited to the teams style.... it is more likely that the random player will diminish the chance of winning; due to teething troubles, misunderstanding and lack of communication.

[mightyleemoon]

I think it's a fine idea, I'm just saying that people are already doing that.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11593
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46477
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36429
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29933

It's just that they're not public games so they aren't on the "pages and pages" of games you're looking at.

Do a search in the game finder on on-going private games rather than public ones, you'll see plenty.

Also, I'm not saying that you are flip-flopping, rather that there's you on one side arguing (incorrectly as it turns out that ranked players don't play each other and other complaining that they only play each other. Certainly both can't have their way.

Lastly, I'm not being defensive so much as simply trying to point out that you're misinformed here.

Would be a lot easier to be able to find those games using the game finder than sifting through a forum, yea?

And I'm not misinformed. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of games that are exactly how I describe. When I search the histories of people I play...time and time again...I see the same thing. Lopsided games.

I'm also not taking the stance that High Ranks never play each other. But it appears that some High Ranks tend to avoid one another in public games. My observation could only be inaccurate if it didn't happen. But it does. So, as it turns out, the observation and not incorrect. Thus my question...why do they (the ones who avoid each other) fear playing one another?

Okay...maybe you're not being defensive. But since you just assume that anyone who comments on something is complaining...it appears as defensive.

[mightyleemoon]

Browsing through games it's always amusing that triples or quadruples are filled with 2 or 3 High Ranks on a team with no challengers. And when they do start to fill up...it's always with Low Ranks...you pretty much never see a High Rank sign up to oppose.

So...I was wondering...why do the high ranks fear each other?

I was playing against the tag team of Gustaf (something or other) and Crash. Gustaf said it was because all of the other High Ranks are afraid to play him. Yet...I don't exactly see him jumping in line to play against games started by High Ranks...

So...I was just curious as to why that is.

The reason is: good teams, who know each other, set up together.
Now everyone knows that these guys are good and familiar with each other, so you need to be well organised to compete and hope to win.

therefore either 3 random players will join gradually as you describe (so you will see a high ranked team and 1 or two lower ranked, likely newer players)
Or another similar team will join immediately and all at once, having previously communicated the intent to join. (you will therefore not see this happen .. blink and you will miss it)

therefore it is not a gradual build-up in the second case as they do not want to get into a team with an unknown player who may be brilliant and perfectly suited to the teams style.... it is more likely that the random player will diminish the chance of winning; due to teething troubles, misunderstanding and lack of communication.

Ah...

Thanks for the answer.

This also proves to not help the newer people learn the game. I'd like to join a game with some Higher Ranks to see how their communication works. But...alas...those games are about impossible to find for someone new.

I would think a public game would just be to get out there and play with random people while clan games are used to play with only the experienced ones.

CC is, apparently, not a melting pot. It appears to be, much like the real world, extremely clique-ish.

It's a ton of fun. It's just a little bit sad that there is so much segregating in the public games.

See, I've been trying to get some friends to join so that I can play on a team with them and against them.

I think it would be cool if, when the games fill up, the teams are then randomly assigned. Then you would be on a team with your buddy sometimes....and sometimes you have to play him/her....which also gives you the chance to talk a little smack against a chum.

But...I'm just the new guy full of ideas and a big mouth. Don't mind me.

[KoE_Sirius]

Another silly thread taking room in Cyberspace,that could goto Orphaned Pacmen.I prefer singles games thats why I dont join them.Define high rank too..I might be out of my league in this snobbery thread

[Genghis Khan CA]

Most high ranks will play against each other to some extent... there are some who mostly play against high ranks - you can check my games if you like, I haven't played too many against all-comers recently (I think I have one open). Comic boy is another guy with a similar philosophy.

I've played against lots of the high ranks and some on a quite regular basis, so yes there may be lots of open public team games out there, but there are plenty of private high ranked games too. I know for a fact that many and probably most of the guys who play open games against lower ranks also play private games against high ranks... so your thesis is wrong, it is just one game type of many that high rankers play.

[detlef]

I think it's a fine idea, I'm just saying that people are already doing that.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11593
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46477
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36429
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29933

It's just that they're not public games so they aren't on the "pages and pages" of games you're looking at.

Do a search in the game finder on on-going private games rather than public ones, you'll see plenty.

Also, I'm not saying that you are flip-flopping, rather that there's you on one side arguing (incorrectly as it turns out that ranked players don't play each other and other complaining that they only play each other. Certainly both can't have their way.

Lastly, I'm not being defensive so much as simply trying to point out that you're misinformed here.

Would be a lot easier to be able to find those games using the game finder than sifting through a forum, yea?

And I'm not misinformed. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of games that are exactly how I describe. When I search the histories of people I play...time and time again...I see the same thing. Lopsided games.

I'm also not taking the stance that High Ranks never play each other. But it appears that some High Ranks tend to avoid one another in public games. My observation could only be inaccurate if it didn't happen. But it does. So, as it turns out, the observation and not incorrect. Thus my question...why do they (the ones who avoid each other) fear playing one another?

Okay...maybe you're not being defensive. But since you just assume that anyone who comments on something is complaining...it appears as defensive.

Dude, you started a thread asking why high ranked players are afraid of each other. That, my friend is a rather confrontational stance. So, while it may not be complaining, it is starting shit. Had your title reflected the humble curiosity that you claim, perhaps I would have responded differently.

Once again, you have yet to respond to the fact that far more often than they are accused of avoiding each other, high ranking players are accused of avoiding lower ranked ones in games. So, again, how can they be guilty of doing both of those at once?

Once again (I promise to stop saying that once you stop ignoring the points), just because you aren't seeing those games happen, doesn't mean they're not being played.

As for getting on a team with a higher ranked player, if you comb about the forums, you'll see mentorship programs where one will invite you to play a team game. It's actually good for both parties, you learn, they get somebody with a lower score on their team which helps with points earned/lost.

[Gold Knight]

there is a simple answer here.... most (not all) higher ranks have pals.... these pals play with them regularly on team games.... what the OPer is seeing is lower ranks (whom might not have found pals to play with regularly on team games yet) joining games .... simple as that.... when higher ranks join team games (not all but most) they all join at once.... so that game that is sitting there waiting with no on joining against doesn't get seen by him when it fills because it doesn't "sit" after one person has joined ..... it starts and is gone from the join games list because it has started instantly instead of waiting for others to join..... simple

I think Risk put it best, most high ranked players have set teammates because they know they have the best chance of communication with them. A lot of the lower ranks are the rank they are because they dont think the same way as some of the higher ranks would, not saying this about all but some.

And public games are set up all the time, where low ranks can team with high ranks, they just have to check the last page when they are 1st created. It just so happens that high ranks are usually browsing the last page because they know this. I set up public trips all the time, join games against high ranks, so dont try to group all high ranks together.

And last point: The low ranks are CHOOSING to join those trips against high ranks, because the reward is much greater than the risk, lose 4 points comapred to winning 55...

[RiskTycoon]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home

[codeblue1018]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home ;)

Indeed!

[TheBro]

Personally I join games against high ranks, and start games letting whoever wants to join my games, join them.

[comic boy]

You are not looking good.

I allways join tripples games. And only play high ranks.

We go on msn, pick some opponents and join within seconds. Maybe thats why you don't see it.

High ranks like to play eachother coz of the pointsystem.

if i win from 3 cooks i will win 5 points, but if i will loose i loose 50. It's just not worth it.


But maybe you are right in a way. I know 2 members (high ranked) that put me on ignore, coz of joining, they like to play cooks.


1st

Agree completely with this, my team also only takes on high rankers and we also have been put on ignore by a couple of them who prefer to steal a few points from noobs.

[jiminski]

Browsing through games it's always amusing that triples or quadruples are filled with 2 or 3 High Ranks on a team with no challengers. And when they do start to fill up...it's always with Low Ranks...you pretty much never see a High Rank sign up to oppose.

So...I was wondering...why do the high ranks fear each other?

I was playing against the tag team of Gustaf (something or other) and Crash. Gustaf said it was because all of the other High Ranks are afraid to play him. Yet...I don't exactly see him jumping in line to play against games started by High Ranks...

So...I was just curious as to why that is.

The reason is: good teams, who know each other, set up together.
Now everyone knows that these guys are good and familiar with each other, so you need to be well organised to compete and hope to win.

therefore either 3 random players will join gradually as you describe (so you will see a high ranked team and 1 or two lower ranked, likely newer players)
Or another similar team will join immediately and all at once, having previously communicated the intent to join. (you will therefore not see this happen .. blink and you will miss it)

therefore it is not a gradual build-up in the second case as they do not want to get into a team with an unknown player who may be brilliant and perfectly suited to the teams style.... it is more likely that the random player will diminish the chance of winning; due to teething troubles, misunderstanding and lack of communication.

Ah...

Thanks for the answer.

This also proves to not help the newer people learn the game. I'd like to join a game with some Higher Ranks to see how their communication works. But...alas...those games are about impossible to find for someone new.

I would think a public game would just be to get out there and play with random people while clan games are used to play with only the experienced ones.

CC is, apparently, not a melting pot. It appears to be, much like the real world, extremely clique-ish.

It's a ton of fun. It's just a little bit sad that there is so much segregating in the public games.

See, I've been trying to get some friends to join so that I can play on a team with them and against them.

I think it would be cool if, when the games fill up, the teams are then randomly assigned. Then you would be on a team with your buddy sometimes....and sometimes you have to play him/her....which also gives you the chance to talk a little smack against a chum.

But...I'm just the new guy full of ideas and a big mouth. Don't mind me.

Well i learned the game largely by being beaten by high ranked players.. hehe still learning!

It seems you want your bitter tasting cake and to eat it.

I know what you mean of course but you will find that many players play in mixed rank teams! Blitzaholic, for example, plays with low, medium and high ranked players in team games.... when he plays with low ranked players he is accused of manipulating the point handicapping system.. when he plays with high ranked he is accused of elitism ... medium players .. well they seem to slip through the dissenters nets..

I played for a long time with random partners and quite frankly it can drive you bonkers!
It's a shame as i am a very sociable character but when you get lumbered with a player who is blind/deaf half the time and then abusive the other half, it gets a little tiresome. It becomes no fun.

Unfortunately you have to do your time: make friends, prove you won't miss every second go, tell a few jokes... hey offer sexual favours!
But you will have to do it like everyone else, if you want to regularly play with and against high ranked player.

It's unfortunate, I agree! however human nature dictates that if we are given pain by undertaking an action, we try to avoid repetition of that action... sounds dramatic... Ok let's try a more accurate analogy; I'd rather sit on a sofa than a splinter.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home

I have no set team but join plenty of team games with many different players.

[daydream]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home

I have no set team but join plenty of team games with many different players.

you joined one of mine and then dropped it immediately again. you deeply hurt my feelings (not meant to be taken seriously btw )

[mightyleemoon]

So, again, how can they be guilty of doing both of those at once?

I think the break in logic here is that you seem to be under the impression that I can answer for those that claim something that I do not.

I can't.

[mightyleemoon]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home

Right on. I had a feeling this was why it happens.

Someone could have said "It's not that they are afraid of each other...it's that they are afraid of playing with the unknown element."

I'll just keep learning by getting my ass handed to me...over...and over...and over.

I learned to play guitar by playing until my fingers bled. Why should this be any different?

[RiskTycoon]

that's the attitude ! rock on !

[jiminski]

hey Gold Night, get this ..... my pals and I just joined one of your games a little while ago.... we all joined at the same time and it started instantly ! lol and i wasn't even thinking of this thread when we did it ! gl!

and yeah, he makes a good point there too....he is right when he says go to the last page and look <refresh refresh refresh> lol a lot of the higher ranks do this and join the games right away with other higher ranks...why you might ask? well... there is a simple answer for that too.... because most (not all) higher ranks know that if they join with lower ranks there is a chance they wont communicate or they might deadbeat ... blah blah blah .... but if you join with higher ranked players there is more of a chance of communication and no deadbeating .... many people make public games and don't even use a set team very often... i know a bunch of players that do this .....

in other words, higher ranked players are always damned if you do and damned if you don't ! it's just the nature of the CC beast we call home away from home

Right on. I had a feeling this was why it happens.

Someone could have said "It's not that they are afraid of each other...it's that they are afraid of playing with the unknown element."

hehe .. i did say that mate ... you replied.

[Fruitcake]

Browsing through games it's always amusing that triples or quadruples are filled with 2 or 3 High Ranks on a team with no challengers. And when they do start to fill up...it's always with Low Ranks...you pretty much never see a High Rank sign up to oppose.

So...I was wondering...why do the high ranks fear each other?

I was playing against the tag team of Gustaf (something or other) and Crash. Gustaf said it was because all of the other High Ranks are afraid to play him. Yet...I don't exactly see him jumping in line to play against games started by High Ranks...

So...I was just curious as to why that is.

I haven't bothered to look beyond this first post as it seems to me to be beholden on anyone with a high (or medium) rank to step up and answer for themselves.

Out of 32 triples games I have played, 29 have been against higher ranks (Captains, Majors, and Colonels), I have played alongside cooks and privates, and in fact, am currently doing so right now, with great results. A ‘team’ I have organised specifically targets high ranks for one simple reason. One earns more points easily. Out of 19 games we have played, we have won 10 with a points ‘profit’ of 193.

I would say to lower ranks, look for a higher rank adding to the second team, then sign up quick. If you see a higher rank offering in the first team, sign up quick, either way, you gain valuable experience for little cost and large profit, that’s how I learnt when I was lower down the league.

I am now certain, many ‘higher’ ranks have no problem with anyone they play, lower or higher rank than themselves. I have had high ranks join games I have set. I have had the same high ranks join against me. There are a few that seem to appear only occasionally, however, the majority do seem to take the losses on the chin well and are not afraid that there could be a ‘ringer’ in the lower ranks.

[Gold Knight]

Mighty, like I said, check the last page of "Join Games" and search for team games with high ranked players if you want in with them. There are very few who will refuse to play with you, so odnt worry about that.

And Im always open to a game

[realmss]

I dont get how people can only play 3v3 against cooks. They arent really that fun... 8 player captain escalating games however, are

[bigdaddyslim2]

Well i would say yes and no on this, I do seem to notice they pair up allot and i have notice they dont tend to play each other, you would think they would rather be beat by a high rank and loose less point than if they where beat by lets say a private, Plus if they were to be beating higher ranks they would have bragging rights, but i think it just comes down to not wanting to loose and by that they play someone that is known not to be all that good. I would rather play the highest ranking players i can find, but it seems they stay in private mode allot, and there are allot more higher ranks teamed up than play against each other.

[roadwarrior]

To be the best, well you got to beat the best consistently. So if you check my games, over 90% of my triples are against high ranks (averaging above 1800pts per player) and I used to seek them out in the public games. I am looking for quality opponents.

While I agree with you that there are so many high ranks (team) out ostensibly looking for easy kill, I disagree that is their motive. Although I don't rule out there is in fact such players but by and large, I found that most aren't. If that was the case, I would expect these teams to have put me on ignore very quickly. For example, JR24 has a losing record with me but to my knowledge, he has not put me on ignore.

Benjikat for example, offers many public waterloo games (team and singles) simply because he loves the map like a mistress, lol and could not find enough high ranks to challenge him.

You can check my post that these high rank teams (e.g benjikat/boss/aspalm/3Asefa & teams) actually rematch with me proving that they are looking for quality challenge.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... t=#1215191

[detlef]

So, again, how can they be guilty of doing both of those at once?

I think the break in logic here is that you seem to be under the impression that I can answer for those that claim something that I do not.

I can't.

That's not my point. Do you mean to imply that they're not guilty, as others have inferred of playing too many games amongst themselves and not giving the lower ranks a shot?

So, I only pointed the rather humorous fact that you are accusing them of doing the exact opposite that others have done to illustrate the flaw in your argument.

Did you see how my pages those threads I liked to are? That's a lot of games. "Pages and pages", to quote someone.

Sure, there aren't any public games pitting high ranked players against one another, because if that's the game they're looking for, they're not going to create a public game. The rank restriction option you propose does not exist, so players use private games and share the password among those who's rank is high enough.

Really, my only point is to show that your original statement is just plain wrong (at least in general). I can point to 1000s upon 1000s of games between high ranking players to prove this.

Yet you doggedly deny this basic fact.

The strange thing is, one of your issues is that the state of public games pits you and a bunch of other lower ranked players against elite players. So, what it seems you really want is for a team of high ranking player(s) plus you to take on one of these high ranking teams. That, of course, would fly in the face of your thoughts on locking games to certain ranks.

As has been suggested, you can find that. If you're willing to let one of these higher ranking players call most of the shots, they'd be glad to invite you on to their team. You learn skills, they get a chance to earn more points.

[mightyleemoon]

Really, my only point is to show that your original statement is just plain wrong (at least in general). I can point to 1000s upon 1000s of games between high ranking players to prove this.

Yet you doggedly deny this basic fact.

The strange thing is, one of your issues is that the state of public games pits you and a bunch of other lower ranked players against elite players. So, what it seems you really want is for a team of high ranking player(s) plus you to take on one of these high ranking teams. That, of course, would fly in the face of your thoughts on locking games to certain ranks.

As has been suggested, you can find that. If you're willing to let one of these higher ranking players call most of the shots, they'd be glad to invite you on to their team. You learn skills, they get a chance to earn more points.

And I can point to thousands upon thousands of games where it does happen. And those are the games I'm talking about. I'm not sure why you want to avert the conversation from games where it does happen (and there's thousands of them) to games where it does not happen. You seem to be taking the stance that this never occurs. And you're just plain wrong in this assumption. It does happen. And those are the High Ranks I'm talking about here. I'm not really into blanket statements because I've found in my life that few broad generalizations hold up. I intended no such broad implication. Those who infer that meaning probably buy into blanket statements. I do not. Your inferences are your own.

So...if we can move on from that and focus on the thousands of games that do fit this description...

I don't want to just be on a team of high ranks. But I'd like to occasionally play along with someone who knows a good bit about what they're doing (And I have talked to a couple people and gotten in some games now). I don't care if it's against a group of other High Ranks or not...but I guess I'd just like to see what kind of conversation is going on and how skilled players operate. Freakin sue me.

(And of course...it would be cool to have a setting that limits people who join to the same rank. I know you can browse a web forum looking for games. But it would be nice to be able to browse for them the normal way as well. But...we can't. Such as it is.)

The current set up makes these instances very rare as many High Ranks tend to avoid pairing up with people of lesser score. They would rather pair up with each other and play the low ranks than play each other. So my initial wording may have been off for the majority of the games where this scenario occurs. Maybe these High Ranks don't fear playing each other...it's that they fear playing with an inexperienced player. (Although...according to Gustaf Wasa...some High Ranks fear playing him.)

Anyway...whatever. I noticed a trend and wanted to ask about it. And you want to argue about semantics and what other people are saying.