After Long Await, Periodic Madness- v16 p 13[i][vacation]

[oaktown]

We need hardcore gameplay discussion.

Uh huh. My first problem is that I personally don't find a map fun if I have to keep looking at the legend (or in this case, the legends) to know what I'm doing. Before every move I'd be second guessing myself - can I be attacked by four bordering spaces, or 8? Can somebody smack me from across the board? What's a transition? 1 per 3?

In my opinion, a good map is one in which I can read the instructions once through, and play with some confidence.

[MrBenn]

I wrote a lengthy post the other day, but the forums logged me out and I couldn't bother to re-type i...

Anyway, sadly this map has little appeal to me. In many ways it is reminiscent of the Keyboard map that has now (fortunately in my opinion) disappeared back into Map Ideas.... I think there are just too many bonusses, and that the whole thing is a lot more complicated than is necessary.

On a constructive note, I recall somebody posting a suggestion (and a draft/mocked-up image) on a previous Periodic Table thread, which had the periodic table on parchment, rolled out on a table in a chemistry lab; this gave enough detail in the background to detract from the 'it's a grid' feeling.

Visually, I feel that there is a lot to be desired currently... the grey background is uninspring, and the whole think just doesn't convey a 'chemistry fell' (whatever one of those is!). RJ's bevelled suggestion was a better look - I'm not sure if you have tried something like that yet??

[laci_mae]

I wrote a lengthy post the other day, but the forums logged me out and I couldn't bother to re-type i...

Anyway, sadly this map has little appeal to me. In many ways it is reminiscent of the Keyboard map that has now (fortunately in my opinion) disappeared back into Map Ideas.... I think there are just too many bonuses, and that the whole thing is a lot more complicated than is necessary.

On a constructive note, I recall somebody posting a suggestion (and a draft/mocked-up image) on a previous Periodic Table thread, which had the periodic table on parchment, rolled out on a table in a chemistry lab; this gave enough detail in the background to detract from the 'it's a grid' feeling.

Visually, I feel that there is a lot to be desired currently... the grey background is uninspring, and the whole think just doesn't convey a 'chemistry fell' (whatever one of those is!). RJ's bevelled suggestion was a better look - I'm not sure if you have tried something like that yet??

I know Tack has some great ideas for this map. He's (see his most recent post) promised a graphical overhaul. Probably going to get some beveled edges and a reduction of the "squares in rows" feel. The idea of having the table on a parchment roll is interesting.

The gameplay and bonuses warrant further discussion. By "too many bonuses" do you mean there are too many continents or too many extra options or that the bonuses are too high? What specifically would you scale back or eliminate?

LMR

[TaCktiX]

I think the one favor not being done Shadowsteel or I is some basic credibility. Everyone comes into this topic ASSUMING that this map should just die because of some unnamed taboo. I apologize for the spiteful among you, I am not abandoning this map. I have asked REPEATEDLY for bonus discussion, for gameplay discussion. What do I get? "Oh gosh, it's too much". Generic, un-detailed, cop-out replies so that something was "addressed" and people can absolve themselves of the "guilt" of giving meaningless feedback.

And no, I am not referring to the graphics feedback. Thank you for it, I will fix all noted issues in a fairly major overhaul. I'm referring to the LACK of gameplay feedback. I change things blindly, because I'm yet to get any meaningful feedback since I reworked the cation/anion teleport issue way back on page 4 of the topic. If you're going to post, post something useful. If you're not and are only going to copycat stuff that has already been noted will be addressed (and all of you should know by now, I ADDRESS ISSUES), then don't post. Period. Thanks for your time.

[MrBenn]

I think the one favor not being done Shadowsteel or I is some basic credibility. Everyone comes into this topic ASSUMING that this map should just die because of some unnamed taboo. I apologize for the spiteful among you, I am not abandoning this map. I have asked REPEATEDLY for bonus discussion, for gameplay discussion. What do I get? "Oh gosh, it's too much". Generic, un-detailed, cop-out replies so that something was "addressed" and people can absolve themselves of the "guilt" of giving meaningless feedback.

And no, I am not referring to the graphics feedback. Thank you for it, I will fix all noted issues in a fairly major overhaul. I'm referring to the LACK of gameplay feedback. I change things blindly, because I'm yet to get any meaningful feedback since I reworked the cation/anion teleport issue way back on page 4 of the topic. If you're going to post, post something useful. If you're not and are only going to copycat stuff that has already been noted will be addressed (and all of you should know by now, I ADDRESS ISSUES), then don't post. Period. Thanks for your time.

I think that generally people don't comment on gameplay if they think the graphics are bad - you've already said that the graphics need a complete overhaul - once that is done, you may get some more interest... If you're going to look hard at something to see how it works, then it helps to have something visually appealing, or an idea that 'grabs people'. I think there is possibly some potential, but I think it will take a lot of work to hook people in.

As it stands, I will put aside my own personal reservations, and try and have a good look at the gameplay things that specifically are problematic - although at the moment, I think that the main one is complexity in a 'niche' subject area... my knowledge of chemistry is fairly limited, and consequently, some of the rules appear to be confusing. I'll flesh out my thoughts in more detail when I have a little more time.

[whitestazn88]

the new borders bother me... little dots of different colors show up in the corners... and it hurts my eyes

[laci_mae]

the new borders bother me... little dots of different colors show up in the corners... and it hurts my eyes

Metalloids is more standard, and thus I shall use it when I release version 17. Expect a major overhaul on the graphics (and resultant wait time equivalent).

No comment needed I expect?
LMR

[Joodoo]

and aren't "organics" supposed to be "other non-metals"?

[MrBenn]

OK, Here's my brief overview after a very short time of oggling the map (even though it is not to my own personal taste):

The transitional elements are far too powerful, with the additional bonusses on top of the mega-bonus you'll get for the sheer volume of territories; especially in games with only a few players.
I'm not too sure of the benefit of the normal 4-way attack vs Transitional 8-way attack... it looks like there are more transitional elements, which makes THEM normal
Do the corner transistional elemetns attack 8 way, around the corner (if that makes sense?)

The orange Actinides (sp?) actually don't look that imposing to me - after all, once you've got a couple, it shouldn't be too hard to get the others - and that bonus is easy to hold with a couple of terrs in the blue bit just above it. You could try moving the border a little so that the blue elements with decay border the orange one??

The little arrows indicating 'teleport movement' are not obvious or clear. I would prefer to see connecting lines where possible (although am aware of th difficulty this poses). Additionally, the 'wraparound' seem a bit arbitary... it would make more sense (to me ) to have the corners all be able to attack each other.

The ++ and -- on each row are confusing - and I'm sure that people will think that row means column too. This rule needs more clarification.

My eyes are now going funny, so I'll leave my comments here for the time being.

[zimmah]

the light text (almost all text) is hard to read on the grey background, and the birght outer glow only makes it worse.

i think you should use a much darker outer glow, that might solve the problem

[Quint Sakugarne]

Or maybe make the background gray darker, or even black, and make the Periodic Madness and legend text be black on white. Or white on black.

I know it used to be black, and was changed to gray, but here I'm thinking of the continent name tags.

[laci_mae]

Hey Tac,

I know you're super busy trying to get the Citadel map into FF. I was just hoping that you'd promise to return to this map when you get done over there. There are several nay-sayers, but the most recent design ideas put forth for this map seem very exciting. I'd love to see a map that's been tried so many times actually make it. No hurry I suppose, I was just hoping it hadn't been forgotten.

Best,
Laci

[iancanton]

this map looks like it has some potential. however, there are a couple of factual errors that need to be corrected before the gameplay is finalised.

according to the table below from queen mary university of london, element 117 (Uus) does not exist (or is so unstable that it has not yet been discovered), so it shouldn't be there as a normal element exactly like the others around it.

http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iupac/AtWt/table.html

all elements from polonium (Po) onward are radioactive, not just the actinides. there is enough room to put in radiation symbols if the height of each territory is increased. this will also reduce the cluttered appearance of the ++ and -- symbols.

H is capable of either +1 or -1 valency and i recall seeing some tables where H appears twice. have u considered putting another H above fluorine (F), to allow the right-hand H atom to bond with one or two of the alkali metals (such as Li)?

ian.

[TaCktiX]

In all of those cases, I made a gameplay decision over a reality decision. Since H+ would not be accompanied by a cation of like valence shell, it would be redundant to note it since the bonus is "across" (though if I changed it to any two pairs that could be changed). I'll keep the H- thing in mind, though OH- is the more common way of seeing it. Having random (gameplay-speaking) elements radioactive threw all my bonus calculations off, especially with Tc, Po, and Rn. And having Element 117 just not exist would make for a weird impassable, though I'll consider it (since it's not really an element yet, not even unstably documented).

[gimil]

Sending this off to the heap until I see a draft.

[moved]