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Stupidity

Postby Marfski on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:08 am

Just thought I would share a really sickening, stupid thing I did. Maybe it will make some of you feel better if you have ever done anything stupid.

I like the changes to the feedback system and think it will be much easier to use. I went in yesterday and left feedback for everybody I could leave it on. I thought I was giving everybody five stars and instead gave them all one! I dumbly thought the star on the left was the highest and if you didn't like something about the player you could click 1, 2, 3, or 4 stars starting on the right hand side.

I was mortified this morning when I got an email from my aunt asking why I gave her such bad feedback!

I corrected what I could of them, but unfortunately a bunch of them rolled off yesterday and have been archived.

Have emailed the mods to see if all the awful ones I left yesterday can be removed. Can you imagine all the people out there that hate me today and wonder what they did to deserve one star?!

#-o :oops:

Maybe I could get the dumbell award for this one?
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Re: Stupidity

Postby FabledIntegral on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:22 am

Just another way to show how the feedback system is still flawed - giving 5-stars to everyone? 5-stars should show over the top peak performance. I think people will be even MORE desensitized to this new system than the old one, at least the old one had comments and gave some insight. If people are just going to hand out top ratings - what's the point? It's virtually the same as previously; people would hand out positives to try and get them back, even if nothing was said in chat.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Marfski on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:33 am

FabledIntegral wrote:Just another way to show how the feedback system is still flawed - giving 5-stars to everyone? 5-stars should show over the top peak performance. I think people will be even MORE desensitized to this new system than the old one, at least the old one had comments and gave some insight. If people are just going to hand out top ratings - what's the point? It's virtually the same as previously; people would hand out positives to try and get them back, even if nothing was said in chat.


You may think that way but if I play games with people and they aren't rude, or obnoxious and they take their turns I don't see any reason to not give them the best feedback rating. I don't personally feel that a person has to show "over the top peak performance" to be graced by a five rating from me. And who is to judge what "over the top peak performance" is? None of us are CC gods although some probably think they are. Of course the new system is flawed. Any new system takes time to work out the kinks. You mentioned leaving a positive even if nothing was said in chat. I don't feel like poeple have to chat to make a game enjoyable. I definitely have played with people who I wouldn't want to leave five stars for but the games I left feedback on I felt deserved them. Speak for yourself instead of judging everyone else on how they leave feedback.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:34 am

I'm the god of Conquerclub, and I bring you fire!

But seriously, I'm inclined to agree with FI, 5 stars should be for gameplay or behaviour that's so far above the norm that it's almost in a different universe. 3 being "averageish", 4 being "good" and 5 being "OMG I want to have mad crazy sex with this person because he's bloody incredible!"

5 stars just for not being a dick is ridiculous.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Marfski on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:05 am

MeDeFe wrote:I'm the god of Conquerclub, and I bring you fire!

But seriously, I'm inclined to agree with FI, 5 stars should be for gameplay or behaviour that's so far above the norm that it's almost in a different universe. 3 being "averageish", 4 being "good" and 5 being "OMG I want to have mad crazy sex with this person because he's bloody incredible!"

5 stars just for not being a dick is ridiculous.


Well I disagree, but that is alright. Not everyone's impression of "above the norm" is the same, and I don't know how you can be so "above the norm" in this game anyway on a consistent basis. The dice decide a lot, the map layout decides a lot, the settings decide a lot. If a player knows even the basics of strategy most of the time it just comes down to who is luckier with the dice, or the layout as I already said. Of the 1000 or so games I have played I can really only think of one time when me and my partners were playing Blitz and his teammates in quads and I really felt like the game was won by them because they played far better than we did. They were noticeably superior in their response to our moves and their anticipation of our moves. Everything we tried was thwarted. So in the whole time I have played, is Blitz and his group the only ones who deserve 5 stars? I don't think so. I will continue to give people who I have had good, enjoyable game experiences with 5 stars. Those who were deadbeats, or rude or obnoxious or other unpleasant behaviors I will rate accordingly. What I mainly want to know in feedback is if the player is a person I would or wouldn't want to play with. That is is. I probably wouldn't agree on what someone else thinks is over the top, average, etc. anyway.
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Postby amazzony on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:17 am

I feel that this fits to this topic perfectly to show that Marf is right and others aren't :lol: (just posted by lack to the announcement thread).

lackattack wrote:We don't want attributes based on skill because the goal of ratings is to encourage good behaviour. For skill we already have score, rank and medals.



And Marf, sorry that you made the mistake. Just play those people again and then you can change your ratings :)
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Re: Stupidity

Postby happy2seeyou on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:19 am

Oh no! That sucks.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby jiminski on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:21 am

happy2seeyou wrote:Oh no! That sucks.



I am sure you have been asked this before Hapitu! .... but why are your posts so deep!?
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Re: Stupidity

Postby happy2seeyou on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:23 am

jiminski wrote:
happy2seeyou wrote:Oh no! That sucks.



I am sure you have been asked this before Hapitu! .... but why are your posts so deep!?


I can't help it. lol
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Re:

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:50 pm

amazzony wrote:I feel that this fits to this topic perfectly to show that Marf is right and others aren't :lol: (just posted by lack to the announcement thread).
lackattack wrote:We don't want attributes based on skill because the goal of ratings is to encourage good behaviour. For skill we already have score, rank and medals.

And Marf, sorry that you made the mistake. Just play those people again and then you can change your ratings :)

Please pay attention the next time you want to post and note that I said "gameplay or behaviour". I haven't yet had the chance to rate anyone, so I was shooting blindly there.

Thank you, now if you have anything worthwhile to add regarding behaviour above or below the norm, feel free to do so. For your attention score I will have to give you an initial rating of 2 stars (going by my personal scale where 3 is the average) however, but I will raise it if I see a reason to do so.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby BaldAdonis on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:59 pm

MeDeFe wrote:5 stars just for not being a dick is ridiculous.
No, that's reasonable. I want to play against people who are not dicks. I also want to play against good strategists. I can look at rank/score for the latter, but nothing for the former. Hence, 5 stars to everyone who is not a dick, because they didn't do anything to deserve less.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:01 pm

BaldAdonis wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:5 stars just for not being a dick is ridiculous.
No, that's reasonable. I want to play against people who are not dicks. I also want to play against good strategists. I can look at rank/score for the latter, but nothing for the former. Hence, 5 stars to everyone who is not a dick, because they didn't do anything to deserve less.


Ditto.

And unless I'm told the ratings mean otherwise, I'm giving out 5 stars as the starting point and subtracting from there if someone really gets on my nerves. Otherwise, 5 stars all around if the game was enjoyable.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby FabledIntegral on Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:54 pm

Which is why teh system is flawed. What is a 5-star restaurant? A 5-star movie? Things that are mindblowing - you encounter them rarily. It's something that absolutely impressed you, out of the norm. If you're handing out 5-stars to someone who didn't necessarily do anything wrong, then there is NOTHING to distinguish THAT player from a player that is above and beyond.

What's the point of even having other ratings if 5 is going to be the standard by people? Show me WHAT rating system is effective when you base the standards/default on the absolute top possible given score. There is no incentive to even try to behave above and beyond, assuming that rating is an incentive to people.

This system, because of people like you, is even worse than our old system. It had the potential to accurately judge people, but people who mindlessly hand out 5's is ridiculous and skews the entire system for people who truly rate accordingly. Well you might want to avoid me - as if you don't do anything impressive you'll probably get a 3, aka average, and a 2 if you show even slight signs of stupidity, aka "slightly below average."
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Re: Stupidity

Postby BaldAdonis on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:04 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:There is no incentive to even try to behave above and beyond, assuming that rating is an incentive to people.
Above and beyond? Either you're enjoyable to play, that is, you're not swearing and complaining excessively, missing turns, or suiciding, or else you do some of those things and are not enjoyable. If you don't do anything wrong, then 5 stars. Just because these ratings are star-shaped, and you have seen similar star shapes before in your life, doesn't mean they are related. CC is not Michelin.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:06 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:Which is why teh system is flawed. What is a 5-star restaurant? A 5-star movie? Things that are mindblowing - you encounter them rarily. It's something that absolutely impressed you, out of the norm. If you're handing out 5-stars to someone who didn't necessarily do anything wrong, then there is NOTHING to distinguish THAT player from a player that is above and beyond.

What's the point of even having other ratings if 5 is going to be the standard by people? Show me WHAT rating system is effective when you base the standards/default on the absolute top possible given score. There is no incentive to even try to behave above and beyond, assuming that rating is an incentive to people.

This system, because of people like you, is even worse than our old system. It had the potential to accurately judge people, but people who mindlessly hand out 5's is ridiculous and skews the entire system for people who truly rate accordingly. Well you might want to avoid me - as if you don't do anything impressive you'll probably get a 3, aka average, and a 2 if you show even slight signs of stupidity, aka "slightly below average."


And where is the memo that says 5 is way above average and 3 is the goal?

Or do you think that there may be a small chance that people are going to use this system differently than how you think it should be used?

As far as I am aware, YOU are the one skewing the entire system... but I'm not going to go around telling you how to rate. In my opinion, a 5 star rating does not indicate that someone is above and beyond. In fact, it tells me that the person is someone I'd like to play. Anything else means that someone had a negative experience with that player. And until someone in charge of the site tells me to change my perception on how I vote, that's how I'm going to do it.
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Re:

Postby fishydance on Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:43 pm

amazzony wrote:I feel that this fits to this topic perfectly to show that Marf is right and others aren't :lol: (just posted by lack to the announcement thread).

lackattack wrote:We don't want attributes based on skill because the goal of ratings is to encourage good behaviour. For skill we already have score, rank and medals.


And Marf, sorry that you made the mistake. Just play those people again and then you can change your ratings :)


I agree! Marfski is right on the money.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby jako on Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:47 pm

i give out 5 stars to people that was enjoyable to play with, meaning there was some good moves (in my opinion) played, they turns fast and were a joy to talk to in game chat. other than that, i just give out average stars, meaning 3's across the board.
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Re: Stupidity

Postby zimmah on Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:56 pm

the ratings are NOT about how good a player is, that's what the rankings are for!

the ratings is feedback on the players BEHAVIOR, like is he a total dick in chat, does he suicide for no reason, does he take 23 hours to finaly take his turn or does he takes turns in a few hours? if he's on vacantion or a weekend off to visit his grandma and just misses his turn without getting an account-sitter? or does he/she miss his turn to 'get an advantage' (some players still think missing turns will magicly win them the game somehow) etc. all this kind of stuff should be considered while rating someone. and it has nothing to do with how 'good' a player is.

off course deadbeating, really dumb moves, bad teamplay etc. counts towards the ratings too, but that hasn't always much to do with skills, i mean even the most unskilled player could be a really good team-player and the best of the best in CC could be the worst teammate ever.
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Re:

Postby owenshooter on Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:12 pm

amazzony wrote:I feel that this fits to this topic perfectly to show that Marf is right and others aren't :lol: (just posted by lack to the announcement thread).

lackattack wrote:We don't want attributes based on skill because the goal of ratings is to encourage good behaviour. For skill we already have score, rank and medals.



And Marf, sorry that you made the mistake. Just play those people again and then you can change your ratings :)

damnit, i was just going to grab that quote and post it!! good job!! you can tell the people that have read the new system and those that haven't!!!-0
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Re: Stupidity

Postby zimmah on Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:27 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:Which is why teh system is flawed. What is a 5-star restaurant? A 5-star movie? Things that are mindblowing - you encounter them rarily. It's something that absolutely impressed you, out of the norm. If you're handing out 5-stars to someone who didn't necessarily do anything wrong, then there is NOTHING to distinguish THAT player from a player that is above and beyond.

What's the point of even having other ratings if 5 is going to be the standard by people? Show me WHAT rating system is effective when you base the standards/default on the absolute top possible given score. There is no incentive to even try to behave above and beyond, assuming that rating is an incentive to people.

This system, because of people like you, is even worse than our old system. It had the potential to accurately judge people, but people who mindlessly hand out 5's is ridiculous and skews the entire system for people who truly rate accordingly. Well you might want to avoid me - as if you don't do anything impressive you'll probably get a 3, aka average, and a 2 if you show even slight signs of stupidity, aka "slightly below average."


i think he does have a point here, however i guess most people will still hand out 5's to everyone. and why? because they would like to see all 5's on their own page, that's why. too bad for you, the other person will not see their rating in time to rate you back with all 5's anyways so it's useless.

i think this whole system is good but needs some time to get used to.

i suggest though to keep this in mind:

* Fair Play: covers suiciding, secret alliance suspicion, breaking or respecting alliances, chivalry, etc...)
1 star = very unfair, high chance of cheating, etc. most likely somoene you put directly on your ignore list
2 stars = possibly a bit unfair, like breaking truces, trying to make secret alliances etc.
3 stars = average, not unfair, didn't do anything 'wrong' nor did anything exceptionally good
4 stars = good, makes alliances in game chat, doesn't break them, might even remind you of ending the truce/alliance 1 or 2 turns before they end
5 stars = excellent, one of the fairest players you have seen
* Attendance: covers deadbeating, missing turns, deliberately prolonging rounds, finding a babysitter to keep things moving, etc...)
1 star = deadbeater or someone who misses multiple turns in a single game, without any warning
2 stars = pretty slow to take turns, might even miss a turn maybe even two
3 stars = average, doesn't miss any turns, finds accountsitter if he/she goes on vacantion, if he/she might miss a turn he/she warns beforehand that he has little or no time to take his turns and couldn't find a sitter in time
4 stars = good, takes turns pretty fast and doesn't miss turns, much like 3 stars just takes turns even faster
5 stars = excellent, takes turns so fast that you think he's like on CC 24/7 or something (not litteraly but close)
* Attitude: covers behaviour in chat, foul language, sore losers, gracious winners, "great chatters!", whining about dice, etc...)
1 star = bad. someone who is being a racist, uses fool language, complains about the dices all the time, curses, etc. just very bad behavior
2 stars = below average, not very bad but still not good either, might use fool language or CAPITAL LETTERS a bit too often to be average
3 stars = average, at the start of the game sais something like 'hi, good luck and have fun' doesn't complain too much about the dice or any other things, might chat about other things but mainly about the game off course. doesn't get cocky while being on the winning hand neither complains when on the losing hand
4 stars = good, great person to play with and fun on the chat, off course wishes you luck and fun (i often see people say good luck, but hardly ever 'have fun')
5 stars = excellent, even better then good, very nice person, great to play with or against, someone you would really leave a positive feedback
* Teamwork: covers playing with teammates - coordination, communication, etc...
1 star = attacking(killing) his own teammates (except to get a continent or something off course), not communicating, making very dumb moves even though you told him/her to do otherwise, getting all bossy and tells you what to do even though you know it wouldn't work and yell at you because "you don't know what you're doing, while obviously it's the other way round" etc. basicly you'd rather have this person rather as an enemy then have it as a 'friend'
2 stars = below average, doesn't communicate well and isn't really someone you'd really team up with again. not as bad as it could be, but still not very good either (remember it's about teamplay, not about skill!)
3 stars = average, communicates and plans the next move, fortifies armies to you rather then making himself as strong as he can while you are losing all your armies to the enemy
4 stars = good, tries to get the TEAM to win the game and doesn't try to win all on his own, includes but not limited to: fortifing his armies even though you didn't asked for it, planning, communicating, letting himself be killed by a teammate if he is weak to give out his cards to friends rather then to hand out the cards to the enemies, etc.
5 stars = very great teammate


i think if everyone has about the same standard in rating we would have an awesome rating system where you can see who is worth playing and who isn't

REMEMBER: there is going to be an update that filters out players with lower ratings, meaning you will effectifly filter out the bad players (with too much 'negatives') so it's best too all give the same kind of ratings and not like half of CC gives out 5's to everyone, the other half gives 3's to everyone. and really you got to ask yourself what is best for the community? would you really like everyone to have 5 stars? or would you rather see the ones that REALLY disserve 5 stars to get 5 stars and the other ones like 4 or 3 stars? and the really bad players with like 2 or 1 stars so they can hardly join any games anymore because of their own bad behavior?

i would vote for a FAIR RATING for everyone, so who's with me?
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Timminz on Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:36 pm

zimmah wrote:would you really like everyone to have 5 stars? or would you rather see the ones that REALLY disserve 5 stars to get 5 stars and the other ones like 4 or 3 stars? and the really bad players with like 2 or 1 stars so they can hardly join any games anymore because of their own bad behavior?

i would vote for a FAIR RATING for everyone, so who's with me?


Well said.
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Postby Hound on Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:46 pm

Wow Zimmah, that was quite a post. Unfortunately I don't think most players have the attention span necessary to actually read your suggested criteria for each star rating, so I'm guessing that they're probably not going to put that much effort into the ratings either.

Pretty much I can see giving out 5 stars unless someone deadbeats or is really abusive.

As for using rank to determine whether someone is a good player; I think that's hit or miss. Some folks bounce up and down in rank quite often, based on playing lots of speed games where a run of bad luck can really pull you down. So a rating as to how good you think the player is would be helpful. I know the powers that be don't want that, but...

And this doesn't eliminate revenge ratings either. You just need to play the same player again and you can ding them. Probably a good idea to add someone to your foe's list before you hammer them with 1 star ratings, that way they can't get back at you directly.

As the saying goes, if you think you've made something idiot proof, you are seriously underestimating idiots!
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Beastly on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:16 pm

I just gave everyone 5 stars except for 1 person who deadbeated, and I gave them no stars... Is that how it works. NO stars for stupid people?
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Re: Stupidity

Postby gloryordeath on Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:08 pm

i think 1 star is worse than no stars!
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Re: Stupidity

Postby Hrvat on Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:37 pm

BaldAdonis wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:5 stars just for not being a dick is ridiculous.
No, that's reasonable. I want to play against people who are not dicks. I also want to play against good strategists. I can look at rank/score for the latter, but nothing for the former. Hence, 5 stars to everyone who is not a dick, because they didn't do anything to deserve less.


Amen to that. =D>
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