What should be your Win% when...

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:20 am

What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?

by **ParadiceCity9** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:24 am

I love how it asks for win % then dramatically shifts to whether or not something is appropriate.

Win percentage is not affected if you play the same person.

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:29 am

ParadiceCity9 wrote:I love how it asks for win % then dramatically shifts to whether or not something is appropriate.

Win percentage is not affected if you play the same person.

Actually win% should be affected if you play the same opponent in every game that is how rivalries in any game are built whether it is CC, Chess or Football so the point and theme of questions are all on topic and being brought to common CC denominators...

by **detlef** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:28 am

Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?

Well, as for the first, wouldn't it matter if this player was as good as you? However, in general, I think it's a two edged sword. On one hand, you can start to predict what they're going to do in certain situations and plan accordingly. On the other hand, you can't use the same tactics against them for long because they'll figure you out as well.

As for the other question, I honestly don't see why. I've got a bunch of "friends" here on the site, only one of which I've actually ever met in person and only a few more that I ever engage in any conversation other than CC about. I enjoy their game play and end up in lots of games with them. Of course, the only thing that would lead anyone to believe they were friends is the spirited banter in the game chat.

If you think that two people are cheating because of their actions, that's one thing. If you're cooking up some round about manner of finding something bad where it likely isn't, I humbly suggest you chill out and simply enjoy the game.

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:34 am

detlef wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?

Well, as for the first, wouldn't it matter if this player was as good as you? However, in general, I think it's a two edged sword. On one hand, you can start to predict what they're going to do in certain situations and plan accordingly. On the other hand, you can't use the same tactics against them for long because they'll figure you out as well.

As for the other question, I honestly don't see why. I've got a bunch of "friends" here on the site, only one of which I've actually ever met in person and only a few more that I ever engage in any conversation other than CC about. I enjoy their game play and end up in lots of games with them. Of course, the only thing that would lead anyone to believe they were friends is the spirited banter in the game chat.

If you think that two people are cheating because of their actions, that's one thing. If you're cooking up some round about manner of finding something bad where it likely isn't, I humbly suggest you chill out and simply enjoy the game.

No I agree with you but I still wanted to bring up the matter for disscussion

by **detlef** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:37 am

Soloman wrote:
detlef wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?

Well, as for the first, wouldn't it matter if this player was as good as you? However, in general, I think it's a two edged sword. On one hand, you can start to predict what they're going to do in certain situations and plan accordingly. On the other hand, you can't use the same tactics against them for long because they'll figure you out as well.

As for the other question, I honestly don't see why. I've got a bunch of "friends" here on the site, only one of which I've actually ever met in person and only a few more that I ever engage in any conversation other than CC about. I enjoy their game play and end up in lots of games with them. Of course, the only thing that would lead anyone to believe they were friends is the spirited banter in the game chat.

If you think that two people are cheating because of their actions, that's one thing. If you're cooking up some round about manner of finding something bad where it likely isn't, I humbly suggest you chill out and simply enjoy the game.
No I agree with you but I still wanted to bring up the matter for disscussion

I'm not exactly sure what there is to discuss?

It could be higher, it could be lower. There could be collusion, there likely isn't. There's about as many unknown variables as any other set of two players.

I mean, do you think the win% should be higher or lower than average if two players from the same country are in the same game?

by **JOHNNYROCKET24** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:40 am

Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?

what should your winning percentage be when 2 brothers team up on the 3rd player in a 3 person singles game ?

by **owenshooter** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:44 am

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?
what should your winning percentage be when 2 brothers team up on the 3rd player in a 3 person singles game ?

*smiling, staring at my laptop, waiting for the volleys to begin*

by **zimmah** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:46 am

look, if you play with your friend, and you are more skilled then your friend, then your winning % will go up, at the same time however, the winning % of your friend will go down equally (provided you haven't played other games at least)

so you can't really say it will affect your % either positive or negative, it all depents on how good you are compared to your friend, and compared to others. and like stated above, you can 'predict' each other because you know each others playing style. so the games might become more interesting.

either way it's always fun to play with friends, but i don't really believe it would affect your winning % or points gain by much. and if it does, it will be the exact opposite of your friend, so the net gain of you together will be just 0.

by **zimmah** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:47 am

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?
what should your winning percentage be when 2 brothers team up on the 3rd player in a 3 person singles game ?

about 49%. though you will be banned for it as it's illegal.

by **JOHNNYROCKET24** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:49 am

zimmah wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?
what should your winning percentage be when 2 brothers team up on the 3rd player in a 3 person singles game ?

about 49%. though you will be banned for it as it's illegal.

the answer is 100 %

these 2 brothers played 18 games of 3/4 player singles and won all 18.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47970

by **Blitzaholic** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:51 am

i vote jr for mod

by **JOHNNYROCKET24** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:52 am

Blitzaholic wrote:i vote jr for mod

and you guys thought wicked was tough? shes a puppy dog compared to me

by **detlef** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:03 am

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:i vote jr for mod

and you guys thought wicked was tough? shes a puppy dog compared to me

Not exactly sure if "tough" is the first word that comes up for me.

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 am

zimmah wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
Soloman wrote:What should be your Win% when you play the same opponent often? Should it be higher or lower then random opponents? Is it inappropriate to play people you know in games with others? If it is not inappropriate should you be obliged to let others know your relationship as a courtesy or should you just play as normal? Tell me CC what is your opinion on these matters?
what should your winning percentage be when 2 brothers team up on the 3rd player in a 3 person singles game ?

about 49%. though you will be banned for it as it's illegal.

Since Jr so likes to talk in percentages and Numbers her are some to go over. In 3&4 player assassin Terminator or Standard games I win 50% against my brother in 18 games we know each others strategy and play based on that I win 50% against xroads in 4 games I win 66.6% against djblp in 3 games, I tend to play better against people I have played before and the more often I play them.

I do not Know xroads in realife nor do I know djblp but I used them as examples of people I have played a few games with. Overall in these same games types against someone other then my brother I win 36% of the time the more I play an individual for the most part the higher my percentage goes against them. But keep in mind only 8% of my games of these type include my brother.

I have played more games with my brother because he is my brother and he introduced me to this site so we could still play together when he moved back to California. through all the moves we have both made since then we still play together whenever we feel like it. My brother has his best win loss record I am sure against me since he knows for the most part what to expect and how to play but he also has played 889 games compared to my 216 of the same type.

My point I guess is that a win% that is slightly higher against someone you frequently play should in some way be expected. My brother is not the greatest of players he has deadbeated on a lot of games and thus he has sunk in rank considerably but at one point in the recent past he was Sergeant 1st Class compared to his current cook status so he is a decent opponent to play against.

by **Timminz** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:17 am

The logic of having % go up, the more you play against someone, is just ridiculous. Wouldn't their % go up the more they play against you? You're both playing each other more. You can't both be doing better.

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:30 am

Timminz wrote:The logic of having % go up, the more you play against someone, is just ridiculous. Wouldn't their % go up the more they play against you? You're both playing each other more. You can't both be doing better.

In comparisons to random people you play and you believe that is illogical well compare your own overall win% in a particular type then compare that to someone you play quite often and then tell me if the logic is lacking

by **Timminz** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:33 am

Soloman wrote:
Timminz wrote:The logic of having % go up, the more you play against someone, is just ridiculous. Wouldn't their % go up the more they play against you? You're both playing each other more. You can't both be doing better.

In comparisons to random people you play and you believe that is illogical well compare your own overall win% in a particular type then compare that to someone you play quite often and then tell me if the logic is lacking

The people I play against most often, are a lot better than the average person I run into here. Therefore, my win % is actually less against the people I play most frequently.

by **Soloman** on Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:50 am

Timminz wrote:
Soloman wrote:
Timminz wrote:The logic of having % go up, the more you play against someone, is just ridiculous. Wouldn't their % go up the more they play against you? You're both playing each other more. You can't both be doing better.

In comparisons to random people you play and you believe that is illogical well compare your own overall win% in a particular type then compare that to someone you play quite often and then tell me if the logic is lacking

The people I play against most often, are a lot better than the average person I run into here. Therefore, my win % is actually less against the people I play most frequently.

I noticed that out of 301 of the same game types mentioned you win 32% but when against frequently played opponents of yours(Baldadonis, barterer,etc) in the same game types it goes significantly down. BUt then that is a difference between you and I plus the factor that you commonly play with the same 3 or for opponents versus the same 1 opponent it does make an averaging difference with those games. and again I did stat that for the most part the more I play an individual the better my # look against them versus my overall #'s

by **lancehoch** on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:16 pm

The problem becomes when you have the following stats:

3 player games with Soloman and riskmaster2000: 9 games
Soloman, 4 wins, +75 points
riskmaster2000, 5 wins, +82 points

4 player (non-team) games with Soloman and riskmaster2000: 9 games
Soloman, 5 wins, +99 points
riskmaster2000, 4 wins, +166 points

If you take any other two players who have played 18 3 and 4 plater singles games together, I guarantee that there will be a loss. And to answer one of the questions in your first post, yes, there should be some form of notice that the two players even know one another let alone are brothers.

by **Timminz** on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:24 pm

Soloman wrote:I noticed that out of 301 of the same game types mentioned you win 32% but when against frequently played opponents of yours(Baldadonis, barterer,etc) in the same game types it goes significantly down. BUt then that is a difference between you and I plus the factor that you commonly play with the same 3 or for opponents versus the same 1 opponent it does make an averaging difference with those games. and again I did stat that for the most part the more I play an individual the better my # look against them versus my overall #'s

Those games you see where I'm playing against the same people in 4 player games, is part of a series we're doing for fun, on every single map. I'm not really talking about that particular case, as I don't often play 4 player games (unless they're dubs). Most of the time I play 6 player games, and I still notice the same trend. Are you referring to 1v1 games? If so, then getting a better win percentage against one particular person, than you do against random opponents, just means that that person is not as good as your average "random" opponent. It's far from a trend that everyone will notice. If you're playing someone a lot, and you beat them more often than you normally win, there is someone who is getting a lower win percentage against a particular player than they do on average. The other guy.

by **Soloman** on Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:32 am

Timminz wrote:
Soloman wrote:I noticed that out of 301 of the same game types mentioned you win 32% but when against frequently played opponents of yours(Baldadonis, barterer,etc) in the same game types it goes significantly down. BUt then that is a difference between you and I plus the factor that you commonly play with the same 3 or for opponents versus the same 1 opponent it does make an averaging difference with those games. and again I did stat that for the most part the more I play an individual the better my # look against them versus my overall #'s

Those games you see where I'm playing against the same people in 4 player games, is part of a series we're doing for fun, on every single map. I'm not really talking about that particular case, as I don't often play 4 player games (unless they're dubs). Most of the time I play 6 player games, and I still notice the same trend. Are you referring to 1v1 games? If so, then getting a better win percentage against one particular person, than you do against random opponents, just means that that person is not as good as your average "random" opponent. It's far from a trend that everyone will notice. If you're playing someone a lot, and you beat them more often than you normally win, there is someone who is getting a lower win percentage against a particular player than they do on average. The other guy.

Actually from what I have found in real life playing outside of CC as well when we talk a new person into playing against us they do better against me the 1st few games till I get feel for there play style, then we start to level out. I have friend Jim who's a drill Sargent in the National Guard he has us on record 68 games over the years with Him and I in either 3 or 4 player games of Classic or Castle we have a few other who regularly play also but not as frequently but 1 of the 2 of us has won 43 of those 68 games.

Some games he or I are the 1st out and others we are the last 2 but we always take every opportunity to take the other out. Again I chalk it up to knowing intimately how the other plays and the tactics we each use. This may not hold true to everyone But I have experienced the same in Pickup games of football the more we play the same people the more even the games get over time. Sorry got off on a tangent but as to what you are stating about the other person having a lower win% that is and is not true.

With random people you randomly win some and lose others but as they are also playing other random players there variables are the same and thus there win loss ratios fluctuate with no common control. Once you start playing 1 individual more frequently you can tally your game sin comparison with the common factor of that individual in it and then 2 or more other random players. This gives you a control against which you can base a separate win loss percentage which yes will be in 1 persons or the others favor but given time if you are equal players would balance out.

Now in your case the control is invalidated as you have 2 or more players as a base and with them being rotated it causes a further variable which changes the calculating ratio that should balance over time in single common player variable. Not saying anything disparaging at all just also pointing out that sadly as people learn your strategy they do better against you and you do not seem to adapt as greatly to them as they do to you. As an added factor of familiarity between my brother and I we have played almost 100 games outside of CC(compared to the 35 total non team here)with friends and family.

The majority of them being either 3 or 4 players also as it is hard to get more people to play in real world. In those Games my son was in the majority of and I am proud to say he had some of the most amazing luck with cards and dice I have ever seen as he won more of them then I or Anton(my brother). Point being that we as players against each other had more closely rated win loss percentages versus those we only played a few games with who had either extremely high or low win loss percentages against any one of in comparison.

In the 18 game that are disputed on here 7 of them did not have my both my brother and I as the last 2, Still bad in the eyes of many as roughly 60% of our 3 or 4 player games had us as the final 2. But in all aforementioned games when you read the logs see where armies are dropped and attack patterns you can objectively see a rationale that was based upon either opportunity due to someone else's attacks, securing a bonus or just a retaliatory strike back that gave opening which was seized upon after seeing vulnerability.

See I know that my brother is very bold in his attacks and pays little regard to defense. He builds large strike groups leaving little defense in his bonuses. He is also very retaliatory even to his detriment at times.He tends to go immediately after the game leader regardless of his strength at the time. Sometimes this pays off for him sometimes it does not. The Logs show I have been the victim of this behavior quite a few times but also often because I am cautious of it I am the beneficiary because I look for where he is going strike or wait for him to retaliate after a hard hit.

I for the most part play a more defensive game I prefer to let others box it out where I am not strong and try to avoid being in the path of main conflict as much as possible. I take strong strikes when I see opportunity and fortify my positions strongly whenever possible with troops spread out in smaller defensive positions over my secures areas. I fiercely defend my areas and Slowly work my way out although I will on occasion take bold shots when severely losing or way ahead as far as troops and bonuses. Overall I have a more level defensive strategy in my opinion then My Brothers.

It is this knowledge of what o expect that I use in every game against my brother as I have had years of experience in regards to his gameplay and he to mine. It does change the way I play against him but not in a favorable as I want him to win or I go easy on him. I always want to win I would rather he lose then defeat me in any game. He feels the same for the most part and probably more since I am the oldest. I always go out of my way to out play him and everyone else. The only advantage I have is in intelligence on his gameplay and his on mine which does change the course of the game when everyone else is random I do know what to expect from at least 1 opponent when he is in the game...

by **Timminz** on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:23 am

Are you hoping for someone to say "Yes. It's perfectly normal that you win 50% of the 3 and 4 player games that your brother is in"? You're not going to find it here.

by **Soloman** on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:13 am

Timminz wrote:Are you hoping for someone to say "Yes. It's perfectly normal that you win 50% of the 3 and 4 player games that your brother is in"? You're not going to find it here.

to be honest at this point it does not matter there are different mindsets here in CC and people have there own predispositioned rationales for any and everything what works for you does not necessarily work for me what is logical to me is illogical to you etc...

by **gdeangel** on Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:47 pm

Here's how it should work out...

1) Answer the question in the thread also made today by some other guy here http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54119&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a(how much of the game is luck)

2) Take the answer to that question, and subtract from 100. (this is how much of the game is skill)

3A) If you are better than the other guy, add the answer to #2 plus 1/2 X answer to #1

3B) If the other guy is better than you, your answer is 1/2 times answer to #1