Flame Forums

[The Neon Peon]

Is there a difference between The (not yet) Banned forum and Flame Wars? The (Not Yet) Banned forum does not include the "Forum Games" and "Mafia Games" for this discussion

I have looked into both, and I saw no difference between the two except that instead of saying "F*** you!" in Flame Wars, you just insult the person until their ears fall off in The (not yet) Banned. I have occasionally looked into several threads in The (not yet) Banned, that caught my eye, but I have never found anything that was not just an illogical array of insults that are just above the line of being considered as Flames.

Could someone who regularly posts in these forums explain the difference to me, because I see none worthy enough to have them be anymore than sub-forums, and little for even that.

[Georgerx7di]

does anybody go to either of those forums.

[timmytuttut88]

Is there a difference between The (not yet) Banned forum and Flame Wars? The (Not Yet) Banned forum does not include the "Forum Games" and "Mafia Games" for this discussion

I have looked into both, and I saw no difference between the two except that instead of saying "F*** you!" in Flame Wars, you just insult the person until their ears fall off in The (not yet) Banned. I have occasionally looked into several threads in The (not yet) Banned, that caught my eye, but I have never found anything that was not just an illogical array of insults that are just above the line of being considered as Flames.

Could someone who regularly posts in these forums explain the difference to me, because I see none worthy enough to have them be anymore than sub-forums, and little for even that.

Look at the descriptions. If you don't understand the meaning of the word "off topic" and "trash your opponents", perhaps I can provide a definition.

FlameWars: A place where you insult people in general. The glory days in that forum are long gone and it is completely stripped of life beside chaosfactor and theprowler. If you enjoy long-winded inane repeated insults, that's your place to go! If you enjoy ACTUAL flaming join the clan "the tavernside fire".

The (not yet) banned: Discuss politics, sports, and other shit there. The moderators insist that the place is a spam-fest and they enjoy locking every topic. You are generally not allowed to insult eachother, and if you do the moderators will lock the thread even is their was a good discussion going up to that point. Generally people will insult eachother there, but it won't develop into actual flaming.

In conclusion:

FlameWars=insult
the (not yet) banned=off topic, and most insults don't develop into actual flames

[Iliad]

does anybody go to either of those forums.

*sigh*

Some people are really out of touch

[jiminski]

Exactly, look at the descriptions.
Flamewars is specifically there to pick-on individuals and in The (not yet) Banned that is just an incidental bi-product of lively discussion... or those up for a little demonic mischief.

Flame-wars has lost its way a little.. hehe most would say it never had a way to begin with.
But when i first came here, it was even more like The (not yet) Banned Forum, (before anyone says it .. i realise that was not the original intention of FW) but it was less moderated. This meant, that sure you could swear and abuse, but that topics could also spin wildly out of control. Threads could surge off the original subject matter into realms completely unrelated but in a natural way. It reflected more precisely those golden drunk conversation you have at 3 in the morning with an old mate.

That made for some wonderful and organic discussion.


I realise that this is off subject slightly but could we perhaps have an unmoderated Forum? (or at least only adhering to racial abuse and the worst extremes of bad behaviour.. personal info rules and such)

Call it Adults only or something? surely the site has the information to determine whether someone is 16/18?

then let us all go in, flame each other and swear if we want but let us meander around topics at our own glorious pace, i think that would solve a lot of problems in the other forums.

heh, Me and Mustard will even keep an eye on it for you.

[Dancing Mustard]

I realise that this is off subject slightly but could we perhaps have an unmoderated Forum?
Call it Adults only or something? surely the site has the information to determine whether someone is 16/18?

then let us all go in, flame each other and swear if we want but let us meander around topics at our own glorious pace, i think that would solve a lot of problems in the other forums.

An excellent idea.

The only caveat I'd add is that ultra-light moderation ought to exist there, but only to boot out and clean up after the inevitable hyper-spammers (see Xtratabasco, and to a lesser extent TheProwler) that would use the place as a playground to crank out 300 utterly pointless posts-per-day.

[jiminski]

I realise that this is off subject slightly but could we perhaps have an unmoderated Forum?
Call it Adults only or something? surely the site has the information to determine whether someone is 16/18?

then let us all go in, flame each other and swear if we want but let us meander around topics at our own glorious pace, i think that would solve a lot of problems in the other forums.

An excellent idea.

The only caveat I'd add is that ultra-light moderation ought to exist there, but only to boot out and clean up after the inevitable hyper-spammers (see Xtratabasco, and to a lesser extent TheProwler) that would use the place as a playground to crank out 300 utterly pointless posts-per-day.

hah beat me to my edit! i volunteered our vocational and casual services mate!

but seriously, if they only looked after the worst abuses - publishing someones home address, pages of smilies and lobbying for the KKK for example.. it would be a very interesting and beneficial place!

Really moderation in the Adults Only Forum could be solely based upon the most excellent post complaint button.
If it gets pushed more than once, call in Batman!
Otherwise the mods need not intervene or even visit except as free-agents in for a good chat.

[Dancing Mustard]

It's true... some kind of age restricted (or request restricted) sub-forum would be a feature I think a lot of players could enjoy.

FW really has lost its way and these days it's just Troll Wars, rather than a place where people actually flame or argue.

I appreciate that Lack isn't keen to allow some kind of "Race Hate Subforum", but with a bit of light-modding to keep out the Nazis, Spam-Whores, and obvious trolls, then it'd provide not only an interesting place for some of CC's users to let off steam, but also a place where organic conversations could take place without being stifled by over-regulation.

Of course, it would need a tiny bit of work to decide on the 'access system' (be it an age requirement, or simply that users had to request entry, or whatever). But it'd provide a handy place to let boys be boys, and to shunt raucous debate into when it threatened to turn too flame-ridden for OT.

[Jeff Hardy]

why would it need an age restriction?

[jiminski]

why would it need an age restriction?

well if you do not, how is there any hope of getting it passed?.. without some restriction we may as well just ask them to remove moderation from The (Not Yet) Banned Forum.
Not such a bad idea i agree but:- never going to happen.

If there were some restriction, (maybe based on age 16?) it may seem reasonable and even beneficial to the broader site.

[Dancing Mustard]

why would it need an age restriction?

Because the official reason for not letting people debate non CC issues in the FW section has always been:

(A) Kids might see it and get offended. (which the age limit would fix / access restriction would act as a disclaimer too)

[daydream]

your suggestion to me sounds like a conquerclub.com/forum/b/

[Dancing Mustard]

Obviously, I'm not advocating some kind of grotesque racism and pornography board here. Just a place where topics are free to ramble, where people are free to express politicial/religious opinons in 'robust' terms, and where the people regulate the people (with occasional drop-ins to clear out spammers/racists/XXX-posters).

It's what FW almost used to be, back when it was popular and interesting... and I really think that it's something this forum would be so much healthier with (I'm not just asking for a board to troll or anything lame like that).

[jiminski]

Exactly, people get very bored with xtreme, repetitive trollers and racists. you will see that many of the most 'exuberant' characters were very glad to see teh back of xtratabasco.
That sort of virulent posting is not popular with anyone and it soon gets reported if someone monopolises the arena of discussion.

It is just a place for people to be able to discuss things in a more natural manner and without the responsibility being placed on the mods to step in if it moves from Bush's Barbara to Barbara's Bush.

As i say it could be based almost exclusively on the Post Complaint button. If it gets pressed a given number of times then call in the Mod to make a judgement. That way the worst behaviour can still be dealt with.

[pimpdave]

The only problem is that the more subdivided the forums become, the more cliquish they'll become too. We need more fresh blood on the forums, and a steady supply at that.

Granted, as new members become known and either respected or hated, they would become familiar with the sub-forums (and resulting subculture), but in that probationary period, what will suffice to keep them active long enough to become a full fledged forum junky like the rest of us?

We need to think like addicts. How do you get other people to join you in your addiction? Well, gotta get them hooked. If we're all mainlining the trolling, insults, and sex-talk in a private room, all of the impressionable young adults might miss out on the temptation to just "try it once", and then find themselves coming back every day until their liver finally gives up.

[jiminski]

The only problem is that the more subdivided the forums become, the more cliquish they'll become too. We need more fresh blood on the forums, and a steady supply at that.

Granted, as new members become known and either respected or hated, they would become familiar with the sub-forums (and resulting subculture), but in that probationary period, what will suffice to keep them active long enough to become a full fledged forum junky like the rest of us?

We need to think like addicts. How do you get other people to join you in your addiction? Well, gotta get them hooked. If we're all mainlining the trolling, insults, and sex-talk in a private room, all of the impressionable young adults might miss out on the temptation to just "try it once", and then find themselves coming back every day until their liver finally gives up.

It is a decent post Pimp but you are suggesting making no change.

[pimpdave]

The only problem is that the more subdivided the forums become, the more cliquish they'll become too. We need more fresh blood on the forums, and a steady supply at that.

Granted, as new members become known and either respected or hated, they would become familiar with the sub-forums (and resulting subculture), but in that probationary period, what will suffice to keep them active long enough to become a full fledged forum junky like the rest of us?

We need to think like addicts. How do you get other people to join you in your addiction? Well, gotta get them hooked. If we're all mainlining the trolling, insults, and sex-talk in a private room, all of the impressionable young adults might miss out on the temptation to just "try it once", and then find themselves coming back every day until their liver finally gives up.

It is a decent post Pimp but you are suggesting making no change.

Right, I'm trying to clarify the thinking behind making a change. We need to figure out how to achieve both desired goals. I'm still thinking on it, and hopefully my comments have you thinking on it too. Maybe it's just a consequence that would have to be lived with, but remember, every post one makes in a sub-forum is a post one is not making in a public forum, and thus not attracting new potential addicts.

But there has to be a way around that.

As a perfect example of undesired consequences, consider the Civil Discussion Forum, or whatever it's called. I have absolutely no interest in joining. I think it's the dumbest idea for a sub-forum I've heard of yet. It just guarantees that no newbies can see, let alone participate in, what makes up the lions share of user created content on these forums.

And it's not like there are obvious advertisements or road signs directing anyone to that particular sub-forum. I only know of it because it's been referred to in passing in other threads, and frequently mocked in private by just about everyone else on the forums.

[Dancing Mustard]

You're absolutely right. Hiding such a forum away would be a recipe for seeing it fail.

What it needs is for its existance to be publicly viewable, but to have a mechanism in place that bounces young users, or forces them to acknowledge that they are entering a place where unsavoury viewpoints are being expressed about matters of the day. But whether that be a simple "Are you sure, you must be over 16/18/21" or something more complex is a matter for another time.

Nobody here wants a sub-forum. We want a whole brand spanking new real-forum that has light moderation, freedom to go off-topic, freedom to flame, freedom to let off a bit of steam, freedom to make spoof threads, and freedom to talk about whatever and whomever we choose, but which has appropriate safeguards to deter minors/sensitive community members from accidentally wandering in and suffering offence.

[b.k. barunt]

I just got a disciplinary warning from twildo for flaming in the wrong forum. Go fucking figure.


Honibaz

[b.k. barunt]

f*ck you twildo.


Honibaz