The Jesus Freaks

[HoustonNutt]

The Jesus Freaks clan recruitment thread has been totally derailed. This must've been in God's plan!

Post of the week.

[Gandalf40]

A few quick points then I will post any response I might have over in Mess Hall.

This is directed at anyone who IS inserted in joining this clan and NOT at those that do not plan to join.

1) IF you are Christians like this thread suggests and...
2) IF you believe the Bible and the commandments found in it...
3) THEN any group you form should be for the express purpose of obeying the Great Commission...
4) AND you need to obey the Bible when it says "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear"...
5) THERFOR this is the correct place for non-Christians to come and challenge you with these questions...
6) AND you should be able to answer these questions.

Houston is asking EXACTLY the right questions and he is doing a very good job doing it. He set you guys up with the perfect opportunity and even went to the trouble to gift wrap it for you by spelling out precisely what you need to say in your answers.

So here is my question. You say that your are 'Jesus Freaks' which tell me that you are dedicated and devoted followers of Christ. So here is the million dolor question: Do you read God's Word? Have you even read it once? And even if you have read it cover to cover at least once, how can you defined something that you have only read once?

So my challenge to you is to read your Bible, read it more then once, read it every day. And start defending your beliefs from your own first hand knowledge of the reason of the hope that is in you.

You can also find information on how to answer these questions in a Book titled The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. http://resources.family.org/product/id/101901.do To reed it on Google Books go here http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0310209307&id=9zqXhmK9hEkC&pg=PP1&lpg=PP1&ots=FKV-g3v2yh&dq=the+case+for+Christ&sig=7dx6JUyZUK0phc6NufkdKY5Of34#PPP1,M1

[Kokunai]

I am extremely willing to answer his questions but he needs to start the thread...he posed the accusation it was a fairy tale I said how I would enter into the debate now all he has to do is set it up...Unfortunatly Houston, if you want to think that I copped out check my first post and I told how I would take part in the debate but you just do not want to do it that way...I do not care if you think I can't or won't answer your questions.

[Caleb the Cruel]

Could a mod or somebody please move this to the Mess Hall.

[bjn74]

And something else Vulture. Ive asked everyone I've known well that is a Christian. Supposedly if you dont have Jesus in your heart and believe,etc etc.. then you go to hell. So I asked if I followed and believed and did everything I was supposed to do and got in heaven BUT everyone I've ever known ( friends, wife, CHILDREN, grandparents, you get the point ) does not believe, then HOW COULD I BE ETERNALLY HAPPY IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY ARE ALL BEING TORTURED AND BURNED IN HELL??? Answer that, and if you say that my memory of them is erased or something, I think I will puke in my shoe.

[Vulture_Eye]

And something else Vulture. Ive asked everyone I've known well that is a Christian. Supposedly if you dont have Jesus in your heart and believe,etc etc.. then you go to hell. So I asked if I followed and believed and did everything I was supposed to do and got in heaven BUT everyone I've ever known ( friends, wife, CHILDREN, grandparents, you get the point ) does not believe, then HOW COULD I BE ETERNALLY HAPPY IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY ARE ALL BEING TORTURED AND BURNED IN HELL??? Answer that, and if you say that my memory of them is erased or something, I think I will puke in my shoe.

LOL. True. What about if you have family who are all religious, BUT they all have different believes and worship different gods, will they also go to heaven even though they don't worship different gods? Or will they go to hell for worshipping the "wrong god"? What about myself, will I go to hell because I'm an atheist ? but what if I don't believe in heaven or hell, does it still apply to me? Becuse if it's just a matter of faith then it means I won't go to hell but I also won't go to heaven, and I'm cool with that . And I don't know what I'm saying anymore, lol . I hate it when I just ramble and don't seem to make sense anymore.

[Gandalf40]

And something else Vulture. Ive asked everyone I've known well that is a Christian. Supposedly if you dont have Jesus in your heart and believe,etc etc.. then you go to hell. So I asked if I followed and believed and did everything I was supposed to do and got in heaven BUT everyone I've ever known ( friends, wife, CHILDREN, grandparents, you get the point ) does not believe, then HOW COULD I BE ETERNALLY HAPPY IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY ARE ALL BEING TORTURED AND BURNED IN HELL??? Answer that, and if you say that my memory of them is erased or something, I think I will puke in my shoe.

LOL. True. What about if you have family who are all religious, BUT they all have different believes and worship different gods, will they also go to heaven even though they don't worship different gods? Or will they go to hell for worshipping the "wrong god"? What about myself, will I go to hell because I'm an atheist ? but what if I don't believe in heaven or hell, does it still apply to me? Becuse if it's just a matter of faith then it means I won't go to hell but I also won't go to heaven, and I'm cool with that . And I don't know what I'm saying anymore, lol . I hate it when I just ramble and don't seem to make sense anymore.

Well this should be easy to explain. But first we need to establish a few assumptions. First that there is indeed a God that created mankind and gave us a set of commandments in his word the Bible. So if He created us then he has the right to set the rules. So what are these rules? Easy, the ten commandments written in the Bible. But what if I never read the Bible? Then what you know to be right and wrong are the set of rules that you will be held accountable to. So what happens when we break these rules? Well the God originally created us to live in fellowship with Him. It even says that He created Adam in His own image and walked daily with him in the garden. It also says that God is Holy and can not allow any sin in His presence. So if we have sinned (a.k.a. done what we know to be wrong) and we can't ever be in God's presence (i.e. Heaven) then where do we go? Simple, the only other place left to go, Hell. What is Hell? Hell is a place God made for the Satan and his followers.

So in a nut shell: If we obey God and to what is right we can have fellowship with Him for eternity in Heaven. But if we ever do ANYTHING wrong even once we have sinned and will spend eternity in Hell. It has absolutely nothing to do with what you believe or what you worship. Either you are perfect and sinless before God or you are not.

[Vulture_Eye]

And something else Vulture. Ive asked everyone I've known well that is a Christian. Supposedly if you dont have Jesus in your heart and believe,etc etc.. then you go to hell. So I asked if I followed and believed and did everything I was supposed to do and got in heaven BUT everyone I've ever known ( friends, wife, CHILDREN, grandparents, you get the point ) does not believe, then HOW COULD I BE ETERNALLY HAPPY IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY ARE ALL BEING TORTURED AND BURNED IN HELL??? Answer that, and if you say that my memory of them is erased or something, I think I will puke in my shoe.

LOL. True. What about if you have family who are all religious, BUT they all have different believes and worship different gods, will they also go to heaven even though they don't worship different gods? Or will they go to hell for worshipping the "wrong god"? What about myself, will I go to hell because I'm an atheist ? but what if I don't believe in heaven or hell, does it still apply to me? Becuse if it's just a matter of faith then it means I won't go to hell but I also won't go to heaven, and I'm cool with that . And I don't know what I'm saying anymore, lol . I hate it when I just ramble and don't seem to make sense anymore.

Well this should be easy to explain. But first we need to establish a few assumptions. First that there is indeed a God that created mankind and gave us a set of commandments in his word the Bible. So if He created us then he has the right to set the rules. So what are these rules? Easy, the ten commandments written in the Bible. But what if I never read the Bible? Then what you know to be right and wrong are the set of rules that you will be held accountable to. So what happens when we break these rules? Well the God originally created us to live in fellowship with Him. It even says that He created Adam in His own image and walked daily with him in the garden. It also says that God is Holy and can not allow any sin in His presence. So if we have sinned (a.k.a. done what we know to be wrong) and we can't ever be in God's presence (i.e. Heaven) then where do we go? Simple, the only other place left to go, Hell. What is Hell? Hell is a place God made for the Satan and his followers.

So in a nut shell: If we obey God and to what is right we can have fellowship with Him for eternity in Heaven. But if we ever do ANYTHING wrong even once we have sinned and will spend eternity in Hell. It has absolutely nothing to do with what you believe or what you worship. Either you are perfect and sinless before God or you are not.

I get what your saying, but all of this relize on the ASSUMPTION that there is indeed a god, right? You also said that we cannot be sinners in order to go to heaven, but don't christian and chatolic people "repent" and god forgives them? And What about the sinners that convert? They too have sinned, does that mean even though they converted they will go to hell, after all they did SIN. What about the ones who commit the big sins, murder, genocide, steal, drugs, etc. if they accept christianity will their sins be washed away and be able to go to heaven? or will your god deny them for their sins, after all he already "died once for our sins", how many times will he have to do that?

The Ten Commandments and the bible are a matter of interpretation, different prople will interpret it in different ways to fit their beliefs. That's why Chatolicism split from christianity, they interpreted the bible in different ways, even thought they believe in the EXACT same thing and study from the same bible.

Here's another, what if, say I DO believe in a greater power, BUT I decide to "Worship" it in private instead of in a church, would that be considered a sin for not going to church and would I still go to heaven if so? I'm asking this because I myself was raised Chatolic, but I hardly ever went to church, I didn't like to step a foot in a church I prefered to play out side, would that also be a sin, even though i went to sunday school?

Just wondering.

To this day I can't step a foot inside a church. Maybe once or twice when there is a family event, like communion or baptism, but that's it. And that's only because I come from a traditional Hispanic family, Everyone in my family, exept my father and I, are religious. Most are Chatoloic, but some are Jahova hitnesses, even though some don't want to be but are forced to by their parents.

[Vulture_Eye]

I'm tired of this already, lets just say you guys believe what you want to belive and you'll go to your heaven and the rest of us believe what we want to and we'll go to wherever it is we'll go, alright?

Besides wasn't this thread originally about starting a clan or somethig? you should get back on that horse and stop feeding this one.


Just my two cents.

[chrisnonstop]

Just wanted to chime in here. I believe there is no God. No all powerful omnipresent being floating above us with a list of who's been naughty and who's been nice. Really, if you actually believe in something like that you have to ask yourself why. I mean, what's the point? We live, we die. Just like everything else on this planet. Have as much fun as you can.

[Adge]

One thing that's always bothered me, apart from the "my God is bigger than your God" crap, is that Jesus was a Jew. In fact, according to the bible, Jesus was a good Jew and obeyed every Jewish law and observed every commandment. (Therefore the Christian viewpoint has very little to do with the teachings of Jesus and is a corrupted method of civil control that has its roots with the monarchy struggling to control the plague ridden and starving masses in medieval Europe).
What I would like to know is, don't any Christians feel a pang of guilt when they eat pigs, which their bible expressly forbids them to eat and which Jesus himself would be horrified to even think of doing?

[Caleb the Cruel]

Okay, please move your guy's circular religion debate to the Mess Hall, maybe I'll join you there sometime.

Now, if anybody else is interested in joining the Jesus Freaks, please send me a pm.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

[Ham]

I feel bad for you guys. HoustonNutt and others are as bad as the Stache were with the scions. Its annoying but I think a mod should intervene.

[wicked]

I'm not reading through all this crap. Whoever isn't here to join the clan, move on out.

If the clan leader will ask me, I'll move/lock this and let you start recruitment anew.

[HoustonNutt]

I feel bad for you guys. HoustonNutt and others are as bad as the Stache were with the scions. Its annoying but I think a mod should intervene.

Oh, noes!

/sarcasm

[Ham]

I feel bad for you guys. HoustonNutt and others are as bad as the Stache were with the scions. Its annoying but I think a mod should intervene.

Oh, noes!

/sarcasm

Seriously though. They had to create a whole nother recruitment thread just because you guys started to debate religon. So they move the old one and you come back to this one to start a whole new debate. If you have that much a problem with the jesus freaks why dont you just revamp the Anti jesus freaks and challenge them to a clan war.

[reverend_kyle]

I'm a whiney scion and cry to mods.. boo hoo.

[Ham]

I'm a whiney scion and cry to mods.. boo hoo.

uhhhhhhhhh no. Im not a scion anymore. And if just trying to get a recruitment thread free of obstacles. I didnt cry to the mods I just said it would be nice for a change if people didnt spam recruitment threads.

[wicked]

RK, does this look like it's in the flame wars to you?

[wicked]

thread locked.