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Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill (page 1)

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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:42 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:What would really be interesting is to see how many they have bought now. Seeing that their stock has decreased immensely that you know who ever buys it now will see it rise in the next 5 years, so if you can find something to link how many the sold to how many have been bought now would be interesting, but the reason for the blow up was because some retard was dicking around with the well even though many told them to stop the drilling or something was going to blow. Also, why would you dump your stock, blow up a rig, which makes you your money, then do nothing about it and not increase any more income for your company.

fast-posted. Your answer is better.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:46 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:

Just sharing interesting fatcs. Why do you think GS and BP sold a shit load of shares 2 weeks before the explosion?

Reasons not truly related.
Truth is, you can find "cooincidental connections" between just about any 2 things.

I agree there are issues, but an intentional conspiracy is just pretty far down the line. Among other reasons, there just is no real and true benefit to anyone, not really, in this. It was caused by folks arrogantly overlooking risk and impact.. much like in most major disasters on Earth.


How often do CEO's sell 1/3 of their holdings? And Goldman Sachs too? They sold over HALF. The Queen is major owner of BP too. Coincidental connections? possible.

Because, the Queen of England and Goldman Sachs along with Haliburton and BP are totally above "conspiracies" and "money and power over all else"...
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:52 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:

Just sharing interesting fatcs. Why do you think GS and BP sold a shit load of shares 2 weeks before the explosion?

Reasons not truly related.
Truth is, you can find "cooincidental connections" between just about any 2 things.

I agree there are issues, but an intentional conspiracy is just pretty far down the line. Among other reasons, there just is no real and true benefit to anyone, not really, in this. It was caused by folks arrogantly overlooking risk and impact.. much like in most major disasters on Earth.


How often do CEO's sell 1/3 of their holdings? And Goldman Sachs too? They sold over HALF. The Queen is major owner of BP too. Coincidental connections? possible.

Because, the Queen of England and Goldman Sachs along with Haliburton and BP are totally above "conspiracies" and "money and power over all else"...

I am positive they are all involved in various conspiracies, just not the one you are trying to draw out here
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Nola_Lifer on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:10 pm

:lol: I just remember I have a cousin who work with Golden Slacks. I'll give him a ring and find out why they sold those stocks. Remember that these guys are in some major shit right now, but I still just don't understand why they would do all these to gain "x" :?:
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:17 pm

It's cool, never mind. I received a phone call today, and the issue is dropped.

;)

I'm not pumping conspiracies anyways. Just throwing the puzzle pieces on the floor. If the federal government had been actually doing something to help the clean up, none of this would be an issue. Obama is cap-n-trade piggybacking the shit out of it, but that's not a conspiracy, that is "Change".

The one that gets me is why the Coast guard docked some boats in the clean up effort for not having enough life jackets, when the Coastguard could have easily......wait for it.....brought extra life jackets, and also, under the circumstances, we can cut some red tape and wave the "fees and permits" for this one...
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:30 pm

Phatscotty wrote: It's cool, never mind. I received a phone call today, and the issue is dropped.

;)

I'm not pumping conspiracies anyways. Just throwing the puzzle pieces on the floor. If the federal government had been actually doing something to help the clean up, none of this would be an issue. Obama is cap-n-trade piggybacking the shit out of it, but that's not a conspiracy, that is "Change".

Try going down there and you will exactly "how little the US government is doing".

In a crisis, nothing is EVER enough, until the situation is solved. However, as I said before, the big reason they cannot do more now and were not able to do more earlier was those FUNDING CUTS because so much of the Bush administration was about "paring down" government.. particularly those "inconvenient" environmental and regulatory agencies.
Phatscotty wrote:
The one that gets me is why the Coast guard docked some boats in the clean up effort for not having enough life jackets, when the Coastguard could have easily......wait for it.....brought extra life jackets,

I see, yes, spend taxpayer money for private citizens. Nope, the one who should have done that, in fact, the guy who darned well KNEW that life jackets are required (always have been) was the captain of that ship.

Phatscotty wrote: and also, under the circumstances, we can cut some red tape and wave the "fees and permits" for this one...

Hmmm... BP spill occured because so little regard was paid in permits, so let's just relax them.. :roll:
Permits and things are generall there for a reason. Again, the people who are down there know these things. Sure, some are complaining that they cannot, now, get around them, but they are like the folks complaining that they cannot get compensation because they cannot provide proof of income. They cannot provide proof of income because they worked in cash so they would not have to pay taxes.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:08 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote: It's cool, never mind. I received a phone call today, and the issue is dropped.

;)

I'm not pumping conspiracies anyways. Just throwing the puzzle pieces on the floor. If the federal government had been actually doing something to help the clean up, none of this would be an issue. Obama is cap-n-trade piggybacking the shit out of it, but that's not a conspiracy, that is "Change".

Try going down there and you will exactly "how little the US government is doing".

In a crisis, nothing is EVER enough, until the situation is solved. However, as I said before, the big reason they cannot do more now and were not able to do more earlier was those FUNDING CUTS because so much of the Bush administration was about "paring down" government.. particularly those "inconvenient" environmental and regulatory agencies.
Phatscotty wrote:
The one that gets me is why the Coast guard docked some boats in the clean up effort for not having enough life jackets, when the Coastguard could have easily......wait for it.....brought extra life jackets,

I see, yes, spend taxpayer money for private citizens. Nope, the one who should have done that, in fact, the guy who darned well KNEW that life jackets are required (always have been) was the captain of that ship.

Phatscotty wrote: and also, under the circumstances, we can cut some red tape and wave the "fees and permits" for this one...

Hmmm... BP spill occured because so little regard was paid in permits, so let's just relax them.. :roll:
Permits and things are generall there for a reason. Again, the people who are down there know these things. Sure, some are complaining that they cannot, now, get around them, but they are like the folks complaining that they cannot get compensation because they cannot provide proof of income. They cannot provide proof of income because they worked in cash so they would not have to pay taxes.


You are just too much. It's Bushes fault??? Wow, not surprised though. Yeah, that bush that tripled the gov't, and his damn cuts!!!
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Titanic on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:37 pm

Phatscotty wrote:How often do CEO's sell 1/3 of their holdings? And Goldman Sachs too? They sold over HALF. The Queen is major owner of BP too. Coincidental connections? possible.

Because, the Queen of England and Goldman Sachs along with Haliburton and BP are totally above "conspiracies" and "money and power over all else"...


The Queen is involved in this? I love this conspiracy more thenthe moon landings ones. Please give all the details.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:33 pm

Titanic wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:How often do CEO's sell 1/3 of their holdings? And Goldman Sachs too? They sold over HALF. The Queen is major owner of BP too. Coincidental connections? possible.

Because, the Queen of England and Goldman Sachs along with Haliburton and BP are totally above "conspiracies" and "money and power over all else"...


The Queen is involved in this? I love this conspiracy more thenthe moon landings ones. Please give all the details.


She owns a majority stake in BP. I don't see how this is anything but expected(ya know, British Petroleum?). certainly wouldn't start talking about moon landings.

Take your meds Titanic
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:16 am

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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:16 am

Phatscotty wrote:

You are just too much. It's Bushes fault??? Wow, not surprised though. Yeah, that bush that tripled the gov't, and his damn cuts!!!


Bush CUT studies in the Gulf. Bush made sure that MMS was not overseeing the oil companies too closely. Bush flat out told Fish and Wildlife, EPA, etc not to enforce certain rules and to ignore certain findings the administration found "inconveniet".

And I am not talking esoterically. Like I said, I used to work down there.

By-the-way, Bush has also given all the Natural gas drillers essentially free rain to put things into our water without oversight. They decided that one study, already found faulty, claiming that the chemicals used would pose not risk, was enough to declare that the EPA has no jurisdiction to inspect these wells. And note that when it comes to water, state rules cannot be enough because water crosses state boundaries.. always. Also, many states have no specific regulation, so these companies are now allowed to go on with essentially no oversight.

Pretty much exactly like BP was.....

You want to bring up all these theories about dropped investments, but you ignore the real and far greater problem of plain deregulation. Yet, you accuse ME of ignoring reality. :roll:
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:32 pm

Obama Makes Reporting on Spill A Felony

Think this rule didn’t come directly from the White House? Getting within 65 feet of essential gulf recovery efforts is now a Class D felony with a $40,000 fine. Reporters have been thwarted again and again trying to bring us reportage on the Gulf situation. (H/T Tabitha Hale)

This was first reported on July 1, and I’m very surprised that bloggers everywhere have not picked it up days ago. Re-tweeting this one is not enough.

If we let this pass, then we are well and truly silenced whenever Obama does not want to deal with difficult questions. Why would we let 11 days pass with such direct WH control of the press? We need to speak out.


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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Obama Makes Reporting on Spill A Felony

Think this rule didn’t come directly from the White House? Getting within 65 feet of essential gulf recovery efforts is now a Class D felony with a $40,000 fine. Reporters have been thwarted again and again trying to bring us reportage on the Gulf situation. (H/T Tabitha Hale)

This was first reported on July 1, and I’m very surprised that bloggers everywhere have not picked it up days ago. Re-tweeting this one is not enough.

If we let this pass, then we are well and truly silenced whenever Obama does not want to deal with difficult questions. Why would we let 11 days pass with such direct WH control of the press? We need to speak out.


http://www.redstate.com/elronaldo/2010/ ... -a-felony/


Yeah, this is totally outrageous. It is far more important that journalists get a good scoop than for the recovery efforts to have maximum chances for success.

Also, I see absolutely no evidence that Obama had anything to do with this directive.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:11 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Obama Makes Reporting on Spill A Felony

Think this rule didn’t come directly from the White House? Getting within 65 feet of essential gulf recovery efforts is now a Class D felony with a $40,000 fine. Reporters have been thwarted again and again trying to bring us reportage on the Gulf situation. (H/T Tabitha Hale)

This was first reported on July 1, and I’m very surprised that bloggers everywhere have not picked it up days ago. Re-tweeting this one is not enough.

If we let this pass, then we are well and truly silenced whenever Obama does not want to deal with difficult questions. Why would we let 11 days pass with such direct WH control of the press? We need to speak out.


http://www.redstate.com/elronaldo/2010/ ... -a-felony/


Yeah, this is totally outrageous. It is far more important that journalists get a good scoop than for the recovery efforts to have maximum chances for success.

Also, I see absolutely no evidence that Obama had anything to do with this directive.


Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:13 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?

BP
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:15 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?

BP


BP can make laws in America?
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Obama Makes Reporting on Spill A Felony

Think this rule didn’t come directly from the White House? Getting within 65 feet of essential gulf recovery efforts is now a Class D felony with a $40,000 fine. Reporters have been thwarted again and again trying to bring us reportage on the Gulf situation. (H/T Tabitha Hale)

This was first reported on July 1, and I’m very surprised that bloggers everywhere have not picked it up days ago. Re-tweeting this one is not enough.

If we let this pass, then we are well and truly silenced whenever Obama does not want to deal with difficult questions. Why would we let 11 days pass with such direct WH control of the press? We need to speak out.


http://www.redstate.com/elronaldo/2010/ ... -a-felony/


Yeah, this is totally outrageous. It is far more important that journalists get a good scoop than for the recovery efforts to have maximum chances for success.

Also, I see absolutely no evidence that Obama had anything to do with this directive.


Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?


Is this a troll response? I said one man did not establish this directive, and you infer that no one in the entire government established this directive?
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Pedronicus on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:44 pm

Did NASA cancel the new moon landing project because the queen is too fat? She's getting on a bit now, but she's the queen for fucks sake. Just add some more solid rocket boosters.

Exxon will stump up half the sponz just for a giggle
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:56 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Obama Makes Reporting on Spill A Felony

Think this rule didn’t come directly from the White House? Getting within 65 feet of essential gulf recovery efforts is now a Class D felony with a $40,000 fine. Reporters have been thwarted again and again trying to bring us reportage on the Gulf situation. (H/T Tabitha Hale)

This was first reported on July 1, and I’m very surprised that bloggers everywhere have not picked it up days ago. Re-tweeting this one is not enough.

If we let this pass, then we are well and truly silenced whenever Obama does not want to deal with difficult questions. Why would we let 11 days pass with such direct WH control of the press? We need to speak out.


http://www.redstate.com/elronaldo/2010/ ... -a-felony/


Yeah, this is totally outrageous. It is far more important that journalists get a good scoop than for the recovery efforts to have maximum chances for success.

Also, I see absolutely no evidence that Obama had anything to do with this directive.


Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?


Is this a troll response? I said one man did not establish this directive, and you infer that no one in the entire government established this directive?


Well, if you know one man did not establish this directive, then, who did, and how many?

If you know who it wasn't, you need to at least have something to point to who it was.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:04 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Well, if you know one man did not establish this directive, then, who did, and how many?

If you know who it wasn't, you need to at least have something to point to who it was.


Fair enough; I did not mean to say for sure that Obama did not establish the directive. My original post, which was what I intended to say, stated that there was no evidence that Obama had established it, which is why my response to your post was so incredulous.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:15 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Oh, so then the directive did not come from gov't then....where did it come from?

BP


BP can make laws in America?

BP lobbiests can, and have.

However, in this case, its a LOT more complicated.

First, start with that this rule basically tells reporters to give workers some room, back off from the immediate beaches, except where authorized.

Why?:
1. Many of those areas were already sensitive prior to the spill. Nesting grounds, places with various threatened plant and animal species, etc.

2. The workers need to WORK and, there have been more than a few cases of harassment and interference with the work. Not everyone likes to answer questions, be bothered. Particularly not daily for over a month.

3. There are real safety concerns. Things other than oil always wash to shore. Even the oil is somewhat hazardous and having reporters tromp through it can spread this around.

4. My understanding (which might be wrong) is that there is no official rule, but it is being enforced as such. That is, basically some sherrifs, some BP people, some government officials have each decided, for various reasons that "enough is enough" and ask people to step back a bit. Again, remember this has been going on for over a month. Folks plain get tired.

5. If the US population really and truly knew the full extent of the damage, there would likely be an ecnomic panic. We are already on shakey grounds. Sometimes, the stability of the country overrides the need for people to know.

6. Absolutely, BP and the other oil companies know their feet are to the fire. They have every incentive to minimize this, make it seem "fixable". They also have an extraordinary level of influence and power. I do not know if their influence with this administration is equal to that of past administrations, but I doubt that influence has waned much. Petroleum is just too integral to our economy and society right now for it to not have power.

7. other issues, not as significant likely, but ....

Note, I am not saying I agree or disagree with the rule I am saying that you want to see this as another excuse for you to attack Obama and that shows a general lack of thought on this matter.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill (page 1)

Postby nietzsche on Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:12 am

Phatscotty wrote:-only 1 month before the explosion in the Gulf, Obama came out in support of underwater oil drilling, stunning many

-The CEO of BP dumped 1/3 of his stock in BP 1-2 weeks before the explosion (remember the huge scary shorts on the airlines right before 9-11?)
-The CEO of Goldman Sachs sold 45%EDIT**(58%) (250 mil)of their BP holdings 2-3 weeks before the explosion (1 week after Obama SUPPORTED deep sea drilling) questionable at best.. The CEO of Goldman is also the former CEO of BP.....even less questionable



I'm a bit late but the first 3 facts are, as you say, scary and should be investigated.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill (page 1)

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:43 am

nietzsche wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:-only 1 month before the explosion in the Gulf, Obama came out in support of underwater oil drilling, stunning many

-The CEO of BP dumped 1/3 of his stock in BP 1-2 weeks before the explosion (remember the huge scary shorts on the airlines right before 9-11?)
-The CEO of Goldman Sachs sold 45%EDIT**(58%) (250 mil)of their BP holdings 2-3 weeks before the explosion (1 week after Obama SUPPORTED deep sea drilling) questionable at best.. The CEO of Goldman is also the former CEO of BP.....even less questionable



I'm a bit late but the first 3 facts are, as you say, scary and should be investigated.

BP is a huge company and has had, always has various internal problems and issues.

However, to leap from that to "this spill was intentional" is to pick something simple instead of the more complicated truth.

The truth is that BP might or might not be a bit worse than other oil companies. They were less lucky. They did contract with Haiburton, a company that seems to pop up everywhere and who, well I would not trust to collect my garbage. That said, I base that opinion on what I saw in Iraq, other things. I don't know that they were considered that bad a company for this type of work (before this accident happened, that is). Even if there were some "issues", they are the kind of thing that is much more obvious after the fact, not before. BP made a bad choice, but again, any worse than other companiess? No, but again, they were less lucky.

Let's, however look at the broader framework. We live in a country that considers oil, as a resource to be among the most important resources out there. Whether you believe we actually went to Iraq because of oil or not is irrelevant. Our government, this country has done many, many things for the sake of oil. Oil is an absolute priority.

The Gulf, by contrast, is very, very important to fishermen. It is important for commerce in many ways other than oil and plain shipping. However, a lot of those things are more "touchy feely" and "esoteric" issues. Sea turtles -- nice, if we have the money and time. Else? Are we really going to die off this planet if they are gone? Same with just about every species out there. (note, this is not what I believe, but it is what a lot, a lot of people "out there" truly believe).

Was it cooincidence that funding for all that research was cut very, very heavily, during the administration of someone who just happens to have heavy ties to the oil industry? Maybe, maybe not. That same administration was big on cutting government, in general. They also took a very, very dim view of almost all environmental regulations, flat out telling agencies to ignore significant portions of the clean air and water acts, not to mention the endangered species act. Many species were given lower priority, and all evidence seems to indicate that a big part of why was economic pressure.. as in people who felt their business-making activities would be too heavily curtailed if the designations were not reduced or held the same.

Add in the heavy decrease in science education, particularly natural resource education, real understanding of WHY putting oil rigs up is harmful to all of us, perhaps much more harmful (in the long term) than doing without that oil. Right now, most people don't even know enough to ask the right questions. (more now, since this incident) I definitely do NOT mean stupid, uneducated people, either. I mean those among our supposed "best and brightest" who just have not been given enough information to really questiong these decisions.

So, was all of that Bush's fault. No. Was it largely his fault? I don't know. He was the one most in the position to have reversed those trends or who, at the least, did not have to continue full force in making them worse. Still, I don't believe any of this was by intentional design. (If it was, then it would be because he believed in the "end-timer" scenario, because I do not truly believe that guy was as stupid as he made out to be... however, he may well have just not looked into these issues all that well). If you live in a society that values any form of oil over any endangered species, (which we truly do, despite some blips to the contrary), then you will act on that peradigm.

The ultimate problem, then is not BP, Bush or Obama. The ultimate problem is this whole peradigm that places oil and other energy resources, use of resources in general well above any long-term sustainable natural systems. Our whole system is designed to benefit most from growth, from use of resources. Long-term perpetuation is the anathema of those concepts. Sustainability is often the enemy of growth. So, the decisions are made to benefit growth and we wind up with an economy that is utterly and fundamentally unsustainable.

If we want to move away from BP-style accidents, if we even have time, we need to more fully and completely toward more sustainable systems. But that means fundamentally changing everything from tax laws to income structures to the way resources are even owned. I don't see it happening any time soon. So, we will face more of this. Maybe not oil spills in the Gulf, no, but many other tragedies.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill (page 1)

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:45 am

Oh, and trying to blame this on Obama is ridiculous. This who incident did not just happen in a year.
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Re: Interesting Facts(?) about the Oil Spill (page 1)

Postby Woodruff on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:23 pm

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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