ELECTION "08- Who u takin

[ritz627]

HAHA, the pot calling the kettle black I see. What you call sense, I call lack of it, and I'm sure plently of people on this site would side with me on that one, you brainwashed christian conservative.
What I have been trying to get through to you is that there is no party of chirst, neither one. The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american. However there is a split in some of the ethical issues. You said before that you could not even fathom how a christian could vote democrat, you act as if it is treason, and personally, I not only find it to be increadibly obnoxious, but also increadibly naive. I'm simply trying to explain to you where those "traitors" are coming from.

I'm assuming your Christian remarks are directed towards jay as I don't believe I've made any religious references.
I am curious as to what you're calling a lack of common sense? You have not responded to any of my logical points on taxation. You've only spouted anti-Christian rhetoric for some reason.

I am not anti-christian, as I am a christian, I am against people like jay who feel that the only option for you if you are a christian is to be republican and that "he cannot possibly fathom why a christian would vote democrat". The remarks in that paragraph were not directed at you.

Now, you made some very good points on taxation, but you'll have to excuse me if I said billionaires instead of millionares.

I find it awful how many are living in poverty while increadibly rich people are able to live their lives, always wanting more money and less taxes. You say, "reward the rich", but in American, as much as we may like to think that it is true that anyone can move through the social class however they want, and that if you don't your lazy and don't even deserve welfare. But this is not true, many, many people are born into poverty, and trapped there, this is where are tax money should be going.

Telling me that after graduated income taxes, rich people cannot put money back into the system is a complete lie. We have been function fine economically with graduated income tax, and when we haven't, it is certainly not the fault of income tax. Having less of a tax for the people that have much less money only makes sense, when they can barely afford even to live a normal life (countless Americans are in this situation). These people also spend money and having more money available for the much larger middle and lower classes would without a doubt not only benefit them, but allow them to put much more money back into the system than the much much smaller upperclass, your average spenders. Either way, the money goes back into the market or community, the rich are still becoming richer, even with the income tax, are still able to help out the community with the extra money that they have left over. The same amount, if not more money is put back into the economy with a graduated income tax.

[luns101]

I Nominate Myself For President

feel free to ask me questions of how i can make this a better America

Considering the alternatives, you are actually a viable option.

[DirtyDishSoap]

well i got 1 vote

[Iz Man]

I find it awful how many are living in poverty while increadibly rich people are able to live their lives, always wanting more money and less taxes.

Wanting money & less taxes is a bad thing? Do YOU want more money? I know I do. Poverty is not the fault of the wealthy. It's also a relative term. You want to see REAL poverty, go to Africa, that's real poverty. The average family living below the poverty line in the U.S. has 2 TV's and a roof over their head. That's not to say we should disregard those that are less fortunate, I'm just saying it needs to be put into perspective, especially given our low unemployment rate and strong economy.

You say, "reward the rich", but in American, as much as we may like to think that it is true that anyone can move through the social class however they want, and that if you don't your lazy and don't even deserve welfare. But this is not true, many, many people are born into poverty, and trapped there, this is where are tax money should be going.

I've never said reward the rich, what I'm saying is don't punish them for being successful. Tax dollars already get poured into underdeveloped communities. The answer to poverty is not just throw more money at the problem. The Welfare system currently is FULL of fraud and waste. It contributes to keeping it's recipients on the dole. There should be some sort of "safety net" assistance for those in need, but the current welfare system needs to be completely overhauled. But welfare reform is another thread.
I'm not a Republican (I am conservative though), but when the Democrats spout "tax cuts for the rich", and "taking money from the poor", they are just engaging in class envy warfare. As I said before, the wealthy already pay the vast majority of taxes, so when there is a tax cut, by definition the wealthy will have a greater decrease.

Telling me that after graduated income taxes, rich people cannot put money back into the system is a complete lie. We have been function fine economically with graduated income tax.

I never said that with a progressive tax rate (which is what we have) rich people cannot put money back into the system. What I said was by eliminating the progressive system and going to either a flat tax rate, or a tax on goods & services, it would provide more money for the wealthy to put back, thereby making the economy even stronger.

Having less of a tax for the people that have much less money only makes sense.

They already pay less in taxes, and they would still pay less in a flat system.
By the way, in a flat system, there would be a level at which one would pay no income tax at all, for example $30k/yr. By keeping deductions to a minimum, it would close many of the loopholes that the wealthy are able to exploit. That is one point on which I think we'll both agree. That is the wealthy are much more able to work the system for their benefit. The poor obviously do not have the means to combat the system so they do get screwed in that respect.

[jay_a2j]

The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american.

Lets see:


Where do most Christians fall,


Abortion.... Pro-life (Republican)

Anti- gay marriage (Republican)

10 Commandments on courtroom walls ...or ANY Christian symbols in a public settings (Republican)



These issues in itself should be enough to steer Christians away from the Democratic Party.


Now, Christian positions that favor the Democrats.

Anti- death penalty (however there might be a split here)

Compassion for the poor (Which I believe is misguided and a stance to keep the poor voting Democrat)


To list all the things the democrats are for that should make Christians cringe might take all day but I'll list some:

Abortion

Stem cell research

legalization of marijuana

school vouchers (most democrats are against them)

illegal immigration (why so many churches support this is not quite clear)- it is BREAKING the law.



But if you want to live in a fantasy world where Democrats are the ones standing up for morality be my guest.... just don't expect the rest of us to buy it.

[heavycola]

The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american.

Lets see:


Where do most Christians fall,


Abortion.... Pro-life (Republican)

Anti- gay marriage (Republican)

10 Commandments on courtroom walls ...or ANY Christian symbols in a public settings (Republican)



These issues in itself should be enough to steer Christians away from the Democratic Party.


Now, Christian positions that favor the Democrats.

Anti- death penalty (however there might be a split here)

Compassion for the poor (Which I believe is misguided and a stance to keep the poor voting Democrat)


To list all the things the democrats are for that should make Christians cringe might take all day but I'll list some:

Abortion

Stem cell research

legalization of marijuana

school vouchers (most democrats are against them)

illegal immigration (why so many churches support this is not quite clear)- it is BREAKING the law.



But if you want to live in a fantasy world where Democrats are the ones standing up for morality be my guest.... just don't expect the rest of us to buy it.

You are confusing morality with the law again.

And that 10 commandments stuff is such rubbish. What does 'thou shalt worship no other god but me' or 'keep the sabbath holy' got to do with the justice system? GET OVER IT

I love barack obama. and i would quite like to have his children.

[ritz627]

The christian church, once again, would side with democrats on all those issues that actually effect the average american.

Lets see:


Where do most Christians fall,


Abortion.... Pro-life (Republican)

Anti- gay marriage (Republican)

10 Commandments on courtroom walls ...or ANY Christian symbols in a public settings (Republican)



These issues in itself should be enough to steer Christians away from the Democratic Party.


Now, Christian positions that favor the Democrats.

Anti- death penalty (however there might be a split here)

Compassion for the poor (Which I believe is misguided and a stance to keep the poor voting Democrat)


To list all the things the democrats are for that should make Christians cringe might take all day but I'll list some:

Abortion

Stem cell research

legalization of marijuana

school vouchers (most democrats are against them)

illegal immigration (why so many churches support this is not quite clear)- it is BREAKING the law.



But if you want to live in a fantasy world where Democrats are the ones standing up for morality be my guest.... just don't expect the rest of us to buy it.

Dumbass, I said issues that effect the anverage american. i.e. taxes, universal healthcare, unions, you know, the stuff I have been talking about for the past page or two. Do you even bother to read the full post? The only ones you mentioned were illegal immigration and compassion for the poor, and if so, you failed to back that up with any reasonable thought whatsoever, other than you saying, "I believe its misguided". You think trying to gets votes for certain groups is something new? Republicans do it too and its been done since the dawn of politics.

[ritz627]

I find it awful how many are living in poverty while increadibly rich people are able to live their lives, always wanting more money and less taxes.

Wanting money & less taxes is a bad thing? Do YOU want more money? I know I do. Poverty is not the fault of the wealthy. It's also a relative term. You want to see REAL poverty, go to Africa, that's real poverty. The average family living below the poverty line in the U.S. has 2 TV's and a roof over their head. That's not to say we should disregard those that are less fortunate, I'm just saying it needs to be put into perspective, especially given our low unemployment rate and strong economy.

You say, "reward the rich", but in American, as much as we may like to think that it is true that anyone can move through the social class however they want, and that if you don't your lazy and don't even deserve welfare. But this is not true, many, many people are born into poverty, and trapped there, this is where are tax money should be going.

I've never said reward the rich, what I'm saying is don't punish them for being successful. Tax dollars already get poured into underdeveloped communities. The answer to poverty is not just throw more money at the problem. The Welfare system currently is FULL of fraud and waste. It contributes to keeping it's recipients on the dole. There should be some sort of "safety net" assistance for those in need, but the current welfare system needs to be completely overhauled. But welfare reform is another thread.
I'm not a Republican (I am conservative though), but when the Democrats spout "tax cuts for the rich", and "taking money from the poor", they are just engaging in class envy warfare. As I said before, the wealthy already pay the vast majority of taxes, so when there is a tax cut, by definition the wealthy will have a greater decrease.

Telling me that after graduated income taxes, rich people cannot put money back into the system is a complete lie. We have been function fine economically with graduated income tax.

I never said that with a progressive tax rate (which is what we have) rich people cannot put money back into the system. What I said was by eliminating the progressive system and going to either a flat tax rate, or a tax on goods & services, it would provide more money for the wealthy to put back, thereby making the economy even stronger.

Having less of a tax for the people that have much less money only makes sense.

They already pay less in taxes, and they would still pay less in a flat system.
By the way, in a flat system, there would be a level at which one would pay no income tax at all, for example $30k/yr. By keeping deductions to a minimum, it would close many of the loopholes that the wealthy are able to exploit. That is one point on which I think we'll both agree. That is the wealthy are much more able to work the system for their benefit. The poor obviously do not have the means to combat the system so they do get screwed in that respect.

*You may have not personally said some of those things, or even meant to imply it, but people earlier on the the arguement did. By saying "you" I was making a generalization of the poeple arguing against me.

I've been th Ghana, first off, so I have seen "REAL" poverty, but that does in no way nullify the poverty seen in America, which is unacceptable.

I agree that the welfare system is corrupt right now, but if you want to get into corruption...well I think you see where I'm going. But in all seriousness, the welfare system is not cutting it as it is, I'll be honest. There needs to be more help for the people that need it.

The rich, with income taxes as it is, most likely put the maximum amount of money they can into the system. The majority of them buy so much, that they don't even know what to buy next, (and me living in Connecticut and having seen it woul know this). I would like to talk a bit more, but I have to go. Sorry.

[jay_a2j]

Dumbass, I said issues that effect the anverage american. i.e. taxes, universal healthcare, unions, you know, the stuff I have been talking about for the past page or two. Do you even bother to read the full post? The only ones you mentioned were illegal immigration and compassion for the poor, and if so, you failed to back that up with any reasonable thought whatsoever, other than you saying, "I believe its misguided". You think trying to gets votes for certain groups is something new? Republicans do it too and its been done since the dawn of politics.

What are you 12? There really is no need to call names, we aren't on the playground.

What YOU deem as "issues that effect the average American" is an OPINION.

Compassion for the poor: Yeah lets look into this a little further shall we? The Democrats say they are "fighting for the little guy". That would be the un-rich, those who need assistance "making it" in today's world. So they develop all these social programs to "help the poor". Sadly, the poor do not realize that these programs "for the poor" are designed to KEEP THEM POOR! Now why would the Democrats want to keep people poor? Because if they were to achieve success they would become sickened by how much they are being TAXED. (I know a guy who was a democrat...became successful (started making good money) and became a Republican after seeing all the taxes he was paying.)

Look at it this way....if everyone was rich, no one would vote democrat. That is the reason they want to keep them poor. Has welfare ever made a person achieve more? No, it is those who have enough self-motivation to go out and HELP THEMSELVES that get off of welfare and become successful!


The government does not owe us much of anything aside from national defense. Once you guys realize that the government is not there to "take care of you" and that if you set your mind to achieve success on your own...YOU CAN DO IT! Stop listening to the Democratic chant of "You can't do it but we can help you" crap.

[ritz627]

Dumbass, I said issues that effect the anverage american. i.e. taxes, universal healthcare, unions, you know, the stuff I have been talking about for the past page or two. Do you even bother to read the full post? The only ones you mentioned were illegal immigration and compassion for the poor, and if so, you failed to back that up with any reasonable thought whatsoever, other than you saying, "I believe its misguided". You think trying to gets votes for certain groups is something new? Republicans do it too and its been done since the dawn of politics.

What are you 12? There really is no need to call names, we aren't on the playground.

What YOU deem as "issues that effect the average American" is an OPINION.

Compassion for the poor: Yeah lets look into this a little further shall we? The Democrats say they are "fighting for the little guy". That would be the un-rich, those who need assistance "making it" in today's world. So they develop all these social programs to "help the poor". Sadly, the poor do not realize that these programs "for the poor" are designed to KEEP THEM POOR! Now why would the Democrats want to keep people poor? Because if they were to achieve success they would become sickened by how much they are being TAXED. (I know a guy who was a democrat...became successful (started making good money) and became a Republican after seeing all the taxes he was paying.)

Look at it this way....if everyone was rich, no one would vote democrat. That is the reason they want to keep them poor. Has welfare ever made a person achieve more? No, it is those who have enough self-motivation to go out and HELP THEMSELVES that get off of welfare and become successful!


The government does not owe us much of anything aside from national defense. Once you guys realize that the government is not there to "take care of you" and that if you set your mind to achieve success on your own...YOU CAN DO IT! Stop listening to the Democratic chant of "You can't do it but we can help you" crap.

Are you serious? A conspiricist I see here. Yea, thats the only logical answer to all this, the democrats are trying to keep the poor, poor. So tell me, how is a higher minimum wage designed to keep people poor? To tell you the truth, I am hardly sickened by the income tax that I pay. I think that the poor would be much happier being richer but paying more taxes. Wouldn't you be? I think the poor would be much happier knowing that they can pay for college for their children and finally bring the family out of the viscious circle of being poor. I think they would probably be grateful for it, and continue to vote democrat. If the whole world was richer or even middle class, you say they wouldn't vote democrat? Then how does Farfield County, the second richest county in America have a democratic representative (Christopher Shays)? How is gratuaded income tax designed to keep the poor, poor? I would be delighted to hear it. Many poor live on welfare checks, even though, I admit, it is taken advantage of in some cases, but you can't say that it is taken advatage of because the demorcrats just want to keep people poor. Come on, you can't be serious, there are so many flaws in your logic, its not even worth pointing them out. I just lost a lot of respect for you there. I admit though, I shouldn't have called you a dumbass before, I was just pissed off.