I Am Wavering In My Support For The War

[unriggable]

Aztecs are Native Americans?

I'll remember that next time I visit Mexico.

Notice the top left:

[Aimless]

http://digg.com/politics/Bush_rejects_a ... t_deadline

Sloppy reasoning.

The fastest way the terrorists could get us out of Iraq would be to stop fighting. They know it, we know they know it, they know we know they know it.

They don't want us out of Iraq (unless it's limping away with our tail between our legs in surrender), because as long as the war keeps going they can justify their nihilistic religion.

[Aegnor]

http://digg.com/politics/Bush_rejects_a ... t_deadline

Sloppy reasoning.

The fastest way the terrorists could get us out of Iraq would be to stop fighting. They know it, we know they know it, they know we know they know it.

They don't want us out of Iraq (unless it's limping away with our tail between our legs in surrender), because as long as the war keeps going they can justify their nihilistic religion.

Don't forget it also gives them a solid excuse to leave their ugly wives in bed.

[Aimless]

Aztecs are Native Americans?

I'll remember that next time I visit Mexico.

Notice the top left:

That should be "aren't", not "are". I hate negation typos.

[unriggable]

http://digg.com/politics/Bush_rejects_a ... t_deadline

Sloppy reasoning.

The fastest way the terrorists could get us out of Iraq would be to stop fighting. They know it, we know they know it, they know we know they know it.

They don't want us out of Iraq (unless it's limping away with our tail between our legs in surrender), because as long as the war keeps going they can justify their nihilistic religion.

No, as shown by:

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%

[unriggable]

Aztecs are Native Americans?

I'll remember that next time I visit Mexico.

Notice the top left:

That should be "aren't", not "are". I hate negation typos.

Oh....I was going to ask...

Anyways. I was reffering to Iroquois and shit, not aztecs.

[flashleg8]

[...] However in the recent weeks, my support has wavered. My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed. [...]

I was unaware of this practice. Seems deeply wrong to me. Is your brother compensated in any way for the disruption to his life? What about his new job (and family)? For how long is this enforced recall for?
You would think a person that has served their country would be better treated.

[dcowboys055]

what position did you end up taking?

Funny, i just finished writing a paper/speech on the pros and cons of leaving iraq for school.

We weren't supposed to choose one or the other, just compare the two options.

[Backglass]

My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed.

Sorry to hear that Caleb. It makes a huge difference when it is suddenly YOUR family that has to go fight. It's always easier to send someone else sons & daughters off to harms way. I believe that if Bush's daughters were drafted and on the front lines, he would have a completely different approach to this "war".

[MeDeFe]

http://digg.com/politics/Bush_rejects_a ... t_deadline

Sloppy reasoning.

The fastest way the terrorists could get us out of Iraq would be to stop fighting. They know it, we know they know it, they know we know they know it.

They don't want us out of Iraq (unless it's limping away with our tail between our legs in surrender), because as long as the war keeps going they can justify their nihilistic religion.

No, as shown by:

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%

Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%

Iraqis who feel less secure because of the occupation - 67%

Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%

/obnoxious asshole mode ON


ok, speak these words out loud.
Not all Iraqis are terrorists.
Not all Iraqis are terrorists.
Not all Iraqis are terrorists.
Not all Iraqis are terrorists.


good, try to remember it, and make sure you refer to the same group of people as the person you're responding to.

/obnoxious asshole mode OFF

[Titanic]

why can't the conclusions be reached without violence.

Tell that to the other guys.

Peace takes two.

We try that, but they keep saying stuff like "It's not fair you can do whatever you want, but our spiritual leaders make us wear towels on our heads and forbid us from shaving. For that reason you must die!"

Sucks.

OMFG, how racist and ignorant are you?!? For that comment you really should be banned...

[DirtyDishSoap]

Alright, here's my story...

Back in 2000, I was fairly liberal and was angry at Bush for 'stealing' the election from Al Gore. So I hated Bush from the get-go. In 2001, after the terrorist attacks, Bush's approval rating sky-rocketed into the 80-89% range while I blamed him for 'letting' 9/11 occur. In 2003, when we were preparing for the War in Iraq, I was against invasion. I felt that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and we were going there for 'hidden reasons'. However in 2005, I changed, I became 100% pro-Bush and pro-Iraq War. I realized that we should support the war and our president rather than tearing the nation to threads. I became that way also because he admitted we went in on faulty intel and pulling out without a stong democratic government would be a mistake. I supported his change in strategy that was done a few months ago. However in the recent weeks, my support has wavered. My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed. Also, I've given Bush's new strategy time to work, and it hasn't made any dramatic changes in Iraq. In my opinion we've been there long enough, it's time to force the Iraqi government to take charge, and it's time to start making plans for troop withdrawls today. Now you can call me a flip-flopper if you wish, I do not care, as it is true.

Bush planned to invade Iraq long before he made it into office...finishing what his dad started

[2dimes]

Sorry to hear that Caleb. It makes a huge difference when it is suddenly YOUR family that has to go fight. It's always easier to send someone else sons & daughters off to harms way. I believe that if Bush's daughters were drafted and on the front lines, he would have a completely different approach to this "war".

I agree 100% up to the daughters part Glass. I believe there would be no problem sending them some where secured over there.

Now is there any way we can vote and get aimless drafted?

[Aegnor]

why can't the conclusions be reached without violence.

Tell that to the other guys.

Peace takes two.

We try that, but they keep saying stuff like "It's not fair you can do whatever you want, but our spiritual leaders make us wear towels on our heads and forbid us from shaving. For that reason you must die!"

Sucks.

OMFG, how racist and ignorant are you?!? For that comment you really should be banned...

Well that's too bad, because we need to hear that kind of crap from arabs on a daily basis, and the world looks the other way.

[Guiscard]

Well that's too bad, because we need to hear that kind of crap from arabs on a daily basis, and the world looks the other way.

Ever stop and think WHY a lot of the Arab world have a problem with the West?

(I'll give you a clue - its not just because their religious leaders tell them too).

Maybe you should, given your location...

[Aegnor]

Well that's too bad, because we need to hear that kind of crap from arabs on a daily basis, and the world looks the other way.

Ever stop and think WHY a lot of the Arab world have a problem with the West?

(I'll give you a clue - its not just because their religious leaders tell them too).

Maybe you should, given your location...

I'd be more than happy if you enlightened me.

[Iz Man]

[...] However in the recent weeks, my support has wavered. My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed. [...]

I was unaware of this practice. Seems deeply wrong to me. Is your brother compensated in any way for the disruption to his life? What about his new job (and family)? For how long is this enforced recall for?
You would think a person that has served their country would be better treated.

FYI.
When you join the military, initially you sign up for 8 years. Most sign in under what's called a 4x4: 4 years active, 4 yrs inactive reserve. Some 2x6: 2 active, 6 active reserve. There are different variations of this.
I personally was a 4x4. My inactive duty ended in 1996. The only difference with me was once a year during my inactive time I had to tell the military where I was and that I had not divulged any classified info., this is atypical because I happened to have a security clearance when I was active.
Inactive reserve means just that, you are inactive, but are kept in a reserve roll for recall. Inactive reservists are called up before any draft would take place.
It is NOT a draft.
Anyone who signs up for the military is aware of this.

[flashleg8]

[...] However in the recent weeks, my support has wavered. My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed. [...]

I was unaware of this practice. Seems deeply wrong to me. Is your brother compensated in any way for the disruption to his life? What about his new job (and family)? For how long is this enforced recall for?
You would think a person that has served their country would be better treated.

FYI.
When you join the military, initially you sign up for 8 years. Most sign in under what's called a 4x4: 4 years active, 4 yrs inactive reserve. Some 2x6: 2 active, 6 active reserve. There are different variations of this.
I personally was a 4x4. My inactive duty ended in 1996. The only difference with me was once a year during my inactive time I had to tell the military where I was and that I had not divulged any classified info., this is atypical because I happened to have a security clearance when I was active.
Inactive reserve means just that, you are inactive, but are kept in a reserve roll for recall. Inactive reservists are called up before any draft would take place.
It is NOT a draft.
Anyone who signs up for the military is aware of this.

Thanks for enlightening me, it doesn’t seem as bad if you know in advance the length of the recall period. Are you still paid for this period in any way? Are you compensated for the recall (i.e. back to full pay), is your current employer forced to keep your job open?
Just interested.

[Iz Man]

Thanks for enlightening me, it doesn’t seem as bad if you know in advance the length of the recall period. Are you still paid for this period in any way? Are you compensated for the recall (i.e. back to full pay), is your current employer forced to keep your job open?
Just interested.

When recalled, you are reinstated back to the same rank you were when you left active duty. There is no "lump sum" compensation that I am aware of.
You are not paid while on inactive duty.
By law, your employer must hold your position for you while you are called to active duty. This is the same for active reservists (the 1 weekend per month, 2 weeks a year crowd).
As a matter of fact, when the war in Afgan started, one of my employees was a reservist in the Air Force (active reserve, not inactive) and was activated. He was gone for close to a year and we had to keep his position available to him when he came back.

I can't say that if I was recalled when I was inactive I would've been jumping for joy. But it is was it is, and I would've gone knowing that's what I signed up for.

[Titanic]

Well that's too bad, because we need to hear that kind of crap from arabs on a daily basis, and the world looks the other way.

Ever stop and think WHY a lot of the Arab world have a problem with the West?

(I'll give you a clue - its not just because their religious leaders tell them too).

Maybe you should, given your location...

I'd be more than happy if you enlightened me.

Its because of this racist crap, and Americans thinking that they are better then them, and they are second class citizens compared to Americans, that America can do what it wants when it wants because it can, because America repeatedly TELLS the ME what to do, rather then listening to find a joint solution. I could carry on going if you want.

Read this by Mark Juergensmeyer (PDF file), its gives a great insight into terrorists minds. To me it was not really that much new as I've done a lot of research on this topic before, although I think he missed out quite a few important bits and downplayed the Indian governments role and brutal response in the uprising of the Sikhs -

http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewc ... ontext=gis

[dcowboys055]

NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE LIKE THAT

[Caleb the Cruel]

[...] However in the recent weeks, my support has wavered. My brother is going to be recalled into the Marines this October, if not before, and will likely be sent to Iraq. For those of you un-familiar with miltary recall, it is where the miltary can force any person who was in the military back into the active service up to 4 years after they became civilians again. To me, this practice is just like the draft and should not be allowed. [...]

I was unaware of this practice. Seems deeply wrong to me. Is your brother compensated in any way for the disruption to his life? What about his new job (and family)? For how long is this enforced recall for?
You would think a person that has served their country would be better treated.

FYI.
When you join the military, initially you sign up for 8 years. Most sign in under what's called a 4x4: 4 years active, 4 yrs inactive reserve. Some 2x6: 2 active, 6 active reserve. There are different variations of this.
I personally was a 4x4. My inactive duty ended in 1996. The only difference with me was once a year during my inactive time I had to tell the military where I was and that I had not divulged any classified info., this is atypical because I happened to have a security clearance when I was active.
Inactive reserve means just that, you are inactive, but are kept in a reserve roll for recall. Inactive reservists are called up before any draft would take place.
It is NOT a draft.
Anyone who signs up for the military is aware of this.

That is all true. But when my brother signed up back in the end of 2000, nobody would have thought that miltary recall would actually occur. He signed on at fairly safe time, but then 9/11 and the Iraq War changed everything.

[Iz Man]

That is all true. But when my brother signed up back in the end of 2000, nobody would have thought that miltary recall would actually occur. He signed on at fairly safe time, but then 9/11 and the Iraq War changed everything.

That's a copout. I signed up in '88; not too much going on that would warrant being deployed anywhere. Then Saddam invaded Kuwait and I was off to war.

Conflicts can (and do) arise at any time , anywhere.

You sign up for 8 years.

What do you think? When you voluntarily sign up you shouldn't have to go anywhere because it's a "fairly safe time"?

[Backglass]

The problem these days is that people freely sign away their rights, without having the slightest clue what they are signing. People just don't read contracts. It happens all the time in real estate, law, insurance, etc.

[Iz Man]

The problem these days is that people freely sign away their rights, without having the slightest clue what they are signing. People just don't read contracts. It happens all the time in real estate, law, insurance, etc.

Stupid people are everywhere.
If you're implying that's what happened here, I find that VERY hard to believe. Everyone in the military live together and work together, all in close quarters typically.
For one to go through an entire enlistment and not know what he signed up for is stretching it a bit.