1 Dead in Pakistan Consulate Attack

[Phatscotty]

An Iranian bomb is detonated in Tel Aviv, and an angry mob crosses the borders in conjunction with rocket fire from the Gaza Strip and Lebanon, accompanied by thousands of tanks moving North from the Sinai. Really there's a lot of things that could happen...

Gas could be 6$ a gallon next weekend...

[BigBallinStalin]

You guys seem to think US policy is the root of the problem while forgiving Arabs and Muslims for their aggression and anti antisemitism. These things are of course not the fault of the people that pursue this course of action, but rather they are the fault of the people they target for any number of reasons...

If this is the case, please explain why the Muslim world was violently expansive under Ottoman rule, how the policies of the Ottomans differ from the teachings of Mohammad, and why things would be different in the modern age if the West cut of support to Israel.

And this is where you're holistic thinking gets you in trouble. First, you think we're forgiving all Arabs and Muslims for whatever (strawman argument), and then you're accusing all Arabs and Muslims for being aggressive, anti-Semites. You do realize that these peoples are not homogenous, right? You know that there are differences, right? And there are different organizations in the political, economic, and social realms too, right?


Then you bring up an irrelevant point. How are the Ottomans relevant after you factor in the colonial experience of those regions from the West? And then how does that even compare to more recent wars and active measures funded and/or started by the US in the Middle East and Central Asia for the past 50 years?

What do you think affects Libyans' opinions more? The Ottomans sacking Constantinople in the 1400s, or the US/NATO bombing the shit out of Libya and consequentially destabilizing all the provinces in 2011? Or hey, how about the Egyptians, who were ruled under the Ottomans for several hundred years? Then how does that compare to the decades of subsidies from the US government to Mubarak's regime which suppressed Egyptians for decades?

[BigBallinStalin]

Care to respond to the second part?

Done, but your first paragraph is definitely a creative slippery slope argument. It's completely fallacious, so the second part becomes less relevant.

[Symmetry]

You guys seem to think US policy is the root of the problem while forgiving Arabs and Muslims for their aggression and anti antisemitism

You seem to think that these are exclusive categories. Can't an American be Arabic? Or a Muslim? Or, for that matter an anti-semite?

And you seem to think that anti-semitism is part of being Arabic, or a Muslim.

I would say that you have a fairly simplistic world view.

Plus, of course, Iran is Persian, not Arab. Do they just all look the same to you?

[GabonX]

Where did all their intelligence networks and armed forces go? And 1000s of tanks from Sinai? You know that the Egyptian government is broke and unorganized, right? Somehow, they'd be able to effectively mobolize their armed forces without no one noticing and then pitch a mass conflict against Israel? Please.

It's not really a matter of no one noticing. Egyptian armor is currently concentrated en mass in the Sinai to guard the border with Israel under the pretext of combating terrorists. This is in violation of the peace accords and it's the first time the border has been militarized with this kind of offensive capability in more than three decades.

And somehow the Iranians sneak in a bomb... of what proportion? If it's a nuclear one, do you realize how difficult that is? Of all the nuclear-armed rouge regimes with unstable populations, none of them allowed one to be obtained by some crazy organization which then detonated the bomb past the security of a foreign country. Nowhere has that happened over the roughly 40 years since this scenario could have happened.

This doesn't make sense. It's not like all the countries' armed forces and intel services suddenly disappear over night, and it's not like the US won't use its forces--as it's currently doing--as a safeguard against outright Iranian/Egyptian aggression...

Sometimes more happens in a matter of weeks than in the decades that proceed them. Frankly I wonder whether the government of Iran cares whether or not the US would take action against them. A presumption of rationality indicates that they would not embark on a suicidal course of action, but that presumption is not a luxury which may have a great cost.

[Symmetry]

Joe Klein on Netanyahu and Iran:

[GabonX]

Care to respond to the second part?

Done, but your first paragraph is definitely a creative slippery slope argument. It's completely fallacious, so the second part becomes less relevant.

I disagree. Any one of those scenarios could happen, and most of them have been attempted before. You asked how Muslim states would exterminate the Jews, so I gave you just some of the possible scenarios which are poised to happen or have happened in the past.

And this is where you're holistic thinking gets you in trouble. First, you think we're forgiving all Arabs and Muslims for whatever (strawman argument), and then you're accusing all Arabs and Muslims for being aggressive, anti-Semites. You do realize that these peoples are not homogenous, right? You know that there are differences, right? And there are different organizations in the political, economic, and social realms too, right?

Sure, it goes along with the old Arab saying "Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world." Certainly the majority of the world's Muslim population is antisemitic due to perceptions regarding Israel, and they're largely given a pass for it.

Then you bring up an irrelevant point. How are the Ottomans relevant after you factor in the colonial experience of those regions from the West? And then how does that even compare to more recent wars and active measures funded and/or started by the US in the Middle East and Central Asia for the past 50 years?

What do you think affects Libyans' opinions more? The Ottomans sacking Constantinople in the 1400s, or the US/NATO bombing the shit out of Libya and consequentially destabilizing all the provinces in 2011? Or hey, how about the Egyptians, who were ruled under the Ottomans for several hundred years? Then how does that compare to the decades of subsidies from the US government to Mubarak's regime which suppressed Egyptians for decades?

The point is that throughout the entire history of Islam tracing back to it's founder Mohammad, it has been an aggressive and expansionist movement. Not all Muslims are devout or are leaders in the movement, but the foundation of Islam is to submit to God by dominating non-believers.

The root of the problem is not Israel or US foreign policy or anything other than Islam itself. Modern flare ups may be traced to a specific film, or a cartoon etc. but the real problem is linked to the basic tenants of Islam. This ideology and the ensuing violence linked to it predate any modern entity which is currently at war with Muslims that would be at peace with those Muslims if they chose to embrace peace. It predates the crusades and all of the wars with Europe as well.

While Western influences may not have always taken the most civil course of action, that doesn't change the fact that Islam is inherently uncivil, at least by Western standards...

[GabonX]

Many of you are critical of the following as you don't think it's fare to individuals, the micro perspective, but when large numbers of people are looked at objectively it's quite clear that this is the reality of what's going on from the macro perspective.

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves --along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions.. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror
attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53..1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the
most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their
blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

It pains me to watch as people make excuses for the perpetrators of these things. It's like watching society blame the rape victim as opposed to the rapist, the victims including those raised into Islam.

[Phatscotty]

So, all this protesting started on 9-11......

Should we take this as a threat that another 9-11 is going to happen? Or are they celebrating 9-11? What do you guys think the significance is?

[Night Strike]

Wow, that's quite the explanation Gabon. Where did you get that article?

[Phatscotty]

Many of you are critical of the following as you don't think it's fare to individuals, the micro perspective, but when large numbers of people are looked at objectively it's quite clear that this is the reality of what's going on from the macro perspective.

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves --along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions.. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror
attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53..1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the
most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their
blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

It pains me to watch as people make excuses for the perpetrators of these things. It's like watching society blame the rape victim as opposed to the rapist, the victims including those raised into Islam.

Welcome Back Gabon

[saxitoxin]

Plus, of course, Iran is Persian, not Arab. Do they just all look the same to you?

This is an extremly non-constructive contribution.

You guys seem to think US policy is the root of the problem while forgiving Arabs and Muslims for their aggression and anti antisemitism. These things are of course not the fault of the people that pursue this course of action, but rather they are the fault of the people they target for any number of reasons...

Gabby, you make a salient point, however, Muslims are not a monolithic, single-minded entity. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. It just so happens the bad Muslims are all allies of NATO and Israel, or those whom their policies support (e.g. the crackhead rapist Wahabists running Saudi Arabia, and al-Qaeda).

The good Muslims are the ones the NATO and Israel are fighting (e.g. Syria, Libya, Algeria, etc.).

The head of Sephardic Jewry in the U.S. has denounced Israel, has denounced John McCain's calls to bomb Syria into the stone age and proclaimed the Assad family and the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party as the protectors of Judaism -

... according to Avital, who is in close contact with officers of the Syrian government both in America and in Damascus, Assad is protecting the ancient community and has protection in place at the community’s historic synagogue.

“The Jewish community in Syria is doing well,” says Avital. It supports Assad, and considers him to be the best possible leader for them. Avital shares that sentiment.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2011/06/14/wh ... rias-jews/

Within one week of the Ba'ath Party falling in Syria, every Jew in that country will be dead at the hands of Saudi backed Wahabists. Neither John McCain nor the "State" of Israel care.

In Iran, Jews are guaranteed seats in Parliament and even serve in the Army of the Islamic Republic.

The Association of Tehrani Jews said in a statement, "We Iranian Jews condemn claims of the US State Department on Iranian religious minorities, announced that we are fully free to perform our religious duties and we feel no restriction on performing our religious rituals."

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-2 ... 184336.htm

When I say Israel is a parasite it's not a racial slur, it's a scientific fact. A parasite is a malevolent organism that feeds off its host. Israel will never lift a single finger of aid to the U.S. but will gladly shove the United States in front of a speeding train if it serves its evil plans. Ask the survivors of the USS Liberty - the ones the Israelis didn't strafe in the water.

There's a story about Henry Kissinger meeting with the witch Golda Maier in which he said to her "before we begin you need to know that I'm first an American, I'm second the Secretary of State of the United States and only thirdly am I a Jew" to which she cackled and said "that's okay, we read right to left!"

[saxitoxin]

An Iranian bomb is detonated in Tel Aviv, and an angry mob crosses the borders in conjunction with rocket fire from the Gaza Strip and Lebanon, accompanied by thousands of tanks moving North from the Sinai. Really there's a lot of things that could happen....

When Israel cranked out their nuclear warhead #200 (which was no national accomplishment since it was built with French technology, placed on German rockets, using Norwegian materials, and tested with South African supervision) they lost the right to continue screaming about how they were about to be overrun by a bunch of Arab armies equipped with rusting 1960s tanks and staffed by conscripts that spend half their time policing the Bedouin. This Tom Clancy plotline is the product of an imaginative AIPAC advertising team.

If this is the case, please explain why the Muslim world was violently expansive under Ottoman rule, how the policies of the Ottomans differ from the teachings of Mohammad, and why things would be different in the modern age if the West cut of support to Israel

First, the Ottomans were Turkic and occupied the Arab world just like they occupied parts of Europe. Second, as I posted above, after Saladin the Great of Syria captured Jerusalem, he immediately declared all Jews were free to return (the Christians had expelled them and seized their property). Israel has still not had the courtesy to return that favor with regard to the occupied Golan Heights. Can I fairly say this is just another episode in a history of deceit and treachery? (I won't, however, because I don't think painting in broad brush strokes like that promotes accuracy.)

[saxitoxin]

The State of Israel represents Jewry like NAMBLA represents Catholics.

Hezbollah Partisans Assist an Elderly Rabbi During Joint Jewish-Arab Anti-Israel Protest ->


Rabbis Queue to Receive the Blessing of Sheikh Nabil Quoak ->



Jews Protest the Zionist State ->



Jews Join Palestinian Youth Battling Zionist Troops ->

[GabonX]

Gabby, you make a salient point, however, Muslims are not a monolithic, single-minded entity. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. It just so happens the bad Muslims are all allies of NATO and Israel, or those whom their policies support (e.g. the crackhead rapist Wahabists running Saudi Arabia, and al-Qaeda).

The people in your picture are a minority Saxi but for a moment let's pretend that they're not, that Israel is nefarious and that al-qaeda, Saudi Arabia, NATO and Israel work together as you claim. How does that change the problem?

[saxitoxin]

Gabby, you make a salient point, however, Muslims are not a monolithic, single-minded entity. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. It just so happens the bad Muslims are all allies of NATO and Israel, or those whom their policies support (e.g. the crackhead rapist Wahabists running Saudi Arabia, and al-Qaeda).

The people in your picture are a minority Saxi but for a moment let's pretend that they're not, that Israel is nefarious and that al-qaeda, Saudi Arabia, NATO and Israel work together as you claim. How does that change the problem?

Before a problem can be changed it needs to be identified. I'm not changing the problem, I'm identifying it: Israel.

There aren't any options to fix the problem because Israel has no incentive to withdraw from its bellicose rhetoric as long as they own Romney, Obama and both chambers of the Congress. That means the only choice a desperate and destroyed people have left is to work toward a negotiating position based on strategic equivalency. In other words, nuclear weapons. Everything that has happend, or will happen, is the fault of Israeli arrogance and zealotry.

[Night Strike]

It's Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other radical Muslims who are constantly threatening to wipe Israel off the map, yet the country of Israel is the "bellicose" one?

[GabonX]

Back to reality,

In the early 20th century, under the French Colonization of Lebanon, the Lebanese Jews were slightly less discriminated then in other places in the Arab countries in the Middle East and North Africa and only a "few" violent incidents against Jews were registered. When Lebanon gained it's independence in 1945, 12 Jews were slaughtered by their Muslim neighbors’ in the city of Tripoli. In 1947, Muslim rioters ruined Jewish houses and Synagogues. In 1948, one of Beirut's Jews was murdered; in 1950 a bomb exploded in a Jewish School killing the school administrator. These and other attacks, were carried out exclusively by Muslims.

Nonetheless, due to a more noticeable Christian presence (as a majority in the Lebanese government), the Jews of Lebanon had more freedom then any Jewish community in the Arab countries in the Middle East and North Africa, until the 1980s, when several Islamic and nationalist extremist groups took advantage of the civil war to kidnap and sometimes kill Lebanese Jews. Most Lebanese Jews left the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... rough_time

Between 2000 and 2010, 41 Syrian Jews made aliyah to Israel, while the majority of the community's remnants remained in the country. In 2001, Rabbi Huder Shahada Kabariti estimated that there were still 200 Jews in the country, of whom 150 lived in Damascus, 30 in Aleppo, and 20 in Qamashli. In 2003, the Jewish population was estimated to be fewer than 100. In 2005, the U.S. State Department estimated the Jewish population at 80 in its annual International Religious Freedom Report.[54] In May 2012, it was reported that only 22 Jews still lived in Syria, all of them elderly and living in Damascus, in a building adjoining the city's only functioning synagogue.

Jews are officially banned from politics and government employment, and do not have military service obligations. Jews are also the only minority to have their religion mentioned on their passports and identification cards. Though they were occasionally subjected to violence by Palestinian protesters, the Syrian government took measures to protect them. There is a Jewish primary school for religious studies, and Hebrew is allowed to be taught in some schools. Every two or three months, a rabbi from Istanbul visits the community to oversee the preparation of kosher meat, which residents freeze and use until his next visit.[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... st_century

Islamic Republic (since 1979)

At the time of the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States, with the migration accelerating after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when the population dropped from 100,000 to about 40,000.[25] On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8,[22][26] one of 17 Iranian Jews executed as spies since the revolution.[27]

Estimates of the Jewish population in Iran vary. In mid- and late 1980s, it was estimated at 20,000–30,000, rising to around 35,000 in mid-1990s,[28] and estimated at less than 40,000 nowadays, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran. However, Iran's Jewish community still remains the largest in the Middle East outside of Israel.[25]

Opinion over the condition of Jews in Iran is divided. One Jew active in arguing on behalf of a benevolence view of the Iranian Islamic government and society toward Jews is film producer Haroun Yashyaei, who tells visitors and reporters the Ayatollah "Ruhollah Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism," and "Take it from me, the Jewish community here faces no difficulties."[25] Privately many Jews complain to foreign reporters of "discrimination, much of it of a social or bureaucratic nature." The Islamic government appoints the officials who run Jewish schools, most of these being Muslims and requires that those schools must open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath. Criticism of this policy was the downfall of the last remaining newspaper of the Iranian Jewish community which was closed in 1991 after it criticized government control of Jewish schools. Instead of expelling Jews en mass like in Libya, Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen, the Iranians have adopted a policy of keeping Jews in Iran. [29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... ce_1979.29

[saxitoxin]

"Hey America, stop bitching about all your sailors we turned into shark-bait and send us more cash. Dance, monkey!"
USS Liberty

Survivors also report that the torpedo boat crews fired on the inflated life boats launched by the crew after the captain gave the order "prepare to abandon ship." This order had to be rescinded because the crew was unable to stand on the main deck without being fired upon and the life rafts were destroyed as they were launched. The defenseless crew, initially unable to report their plight or summon assistance and with only themselves to rely upon, fought heroically to save themselves and their ship.

http://www.gtr5.com/summary_of_events.htm

[GabonX]

Gabby, you make a salient point, however, Muslims are not a monolithic, single-minded entity. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. It just so happens the bad Muslims are all allies of NATO and Israel, or those whom their policies support (e.g. the crackhead rapist Wahabists running Saudi Arabia, and al-Qaeda).

The people in your picture are a minority Saxi but for a moment let's pretend that they're not, that Israel is nefarious and that al-qaeda, Saudi Arabia, NATO and Israel work together as you claim. How does that change the problem?

Before a problem can be changed it needs to be identified. I'm not changing the problem, I'm identifying it: Israel.

There aren't any options to fix the problem because Israel has no incentive to withdraw from its bellicose rhetoric as long as they own Romney, Obama and both chambers of the Congress. That means the only choice a desperate and destroyed people have left is to work toward a negotiating position based on strategic equivalency. In other words, nuclear weapons. Everything that has happend, or will happen, is the fault of Israeli arrogance and zealotry.

Assuming Iran is the country you're referring to as seeking to develop nuclear weapons, what has Israel done to leave the Iranians desperate and destroyed? The support of the Iranian regime and the Ummah as a whole for the destruction of Israel demonstrates a kind of dangerous fanaticism. What is your solution to this?

The Israeli position has always been one of openness to peace while they have always been met with the threat of extermination. What have they done to provoke nations like Iran or the new Egypt? What would you have them do to amend their "evil" ways?

"Hey America, stop bitching about all your sailors we turned into shark-bait and send us more cash. Dance, monkey!"
USS Liberty

I thought you were more intelligent than to think one mistaken incident which occurred during the fog of war negates decades of strong relations which ironically includes servicing US ships in Israeli ports.

[saxitoxin]

What would you have them do to amend their "evil" ways?

1. dismantle their 200+ nuclear megadeath weapons they are threatening the rest of the world with
2. become a secular, instead of crazed religious fundamentalist state, with separation of synagogue and state (a religiously neutral flag, ending Rabbinical control over food and drug administration, ending financing for Birthright and other race-based programs, ending race-based immigration preferences, withdrawing public school textbooks that teach the Zionist theory of racial superiority)
3. restore the 1967 borders
4. open negotiations for a reparations conference to compensate those killed and diplaced during the Palestinian Holocaust
5. turn Jerusalem into an autonomous city-state under international oversight, similar to Bosnia

[GabonX]

What would you have them do to amend their "evil" ways?

1. dismantle their 200+ nuclear megadeath weapons they are threatening the rest of the world with
2. become a secular, instead of crazed religious fundamentalist state, with separation of synagogue and state (a religiously neutral flag, ending Rabbinical control over food and drug administration, ending financing for Birthright and other race-based programs, ending race-based immigration preferences, withdrawing public school textbooks that teach the racist theory of Zionism)
3. restore the 1967 borders
4. open negotiations for a reparations conference to compensate those killed and diplaced during the Palestinian Holocaust

Israel is hardly a crazed religious fundamentalist state. The nation of Israel was established to give sanctuary to Jews, not just those who practice Judaism but also those who were persecuted because their families could be traced to it. Considering that the universal trend regarding the Islamification of nations is oppression of non-Muslim minorities and that the stated ambitions of the Palestinians go far beyond that, do your suggestions show anything more than a willingness to sacrifice the population of Israel for a social experiment?

[Phatscotty]

Damn saxi.....so THIS is what the forum looked like when I first joined the Tea Party!

I think Saxi is having his tea party awakening

[saxitoxin]

What would you have them do to amend their "evil" ways?

1. dismantle their 200+ nuclear megadeath weapons they are threatening the rest of the world with
2. become a secular, instead of crazed religious fundamentalist state, with separation of synagogue and state (a religiously neutral flag, ending Rabbinical control over food and drug administration, ending financing for Birthright and other race-based programs, ending race-based immigration preferences, withdrawing public school textbooks that teach the racist theory of Zionism)
3. restore the 1967 borders
4. open negotiations for a reparations conference to compensate those killed and diplaced during the Palestinian Holocaust

Israel is hardly a crazed religious fundamentalist state. The nation of Israel was established to give sanctuary to Jews, not just those who practice Judaism but also those who were persecuted because their families could be traced to it.

What nation should be established to give sanctuary to the Palestinians after they were displaced by sanctuary-seeking Jews?

The entire nation of Prussia was depopulated and turned over to Poland. After WWII, any nation of Europe could have been picked off the map and had its population exterminated to create a safehaven with total moral accountability. The fact that didn't happen and a far-flung desert populated by brown-people was chosen to dump the survivors of Germany really speaks to the racism of Europe.

And, yes, Israel is a crazed religious fundamentalist state.

I thought you were more intelligent than to think one mistaken incident which occurred during the fog of war

"Fog of War" = "Noon on a Wednesday During the Summer in the Mediterranean"?

Not a single American sailor who survived the USS Liberty - including the maimed ones with missing eyes and limbs - is on record as having accepted the Zionist "oopsie" theory.

[Phatscotty]

Saxi, what should happen to Israel and the Israelis, realistically? Sorry if you have already stated it earlier, I did not catch it.