Have you accepted death?

by **chang50** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:16 am

2dimes wrote:
chang50 wrote:perhaps you can recommend a good,but cheap therapist?

Sorry, if you want Saxi (and in my opinion you do) it won't come cheap.

I'm only a poor pensioner so I think I'll pass on that one, but thanks anyway... : )

by **BigBallinStalin** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:13 am

chang50 wrote:
john9blue wrote:i'm banking on the possibility that technology will advance in my lifetime to the point where we can live indefinitely, and that i'll be able to afford/qualify for the chance to do so. if not, well, shucks

What a terrible prospect,immortality is my worst nightmare.

People that fear immortality have low expectations on the value of their created goods and services for others.

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:51 am

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:+500 Saxibucks to Haggis.

-TG

You a fan of Tyr or just the quote itself?

Anyway +5000 saxbucks to Tails.
(saxi gave me the printing press, so I don't exactly need extras)

tbh I have no idea who Tyr Anasazi is, although I recognize both names as coming from mythology and American history. I just liked the quote and your position.

There's no honor in death nor is there such thing as a good death.

-TG

by **jimboston** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:58 am

thegreekdog wrote:My serious is answer is no, I have not accepted death. I have thought about it a lot and I try not to think about it at all.

My brother is one of those Cryonic freaks.

... but he can't afford to freeze his whole body, so he's only freezing his head.
(It's pretty expensive I guess.)

He asked me to sign a document with/for him... verifying he was "of sound mind and body" when he agreed to this Cryonic thing. This apparently would protect his assets after his death, so they can be used to first pay for the cryonics and later after he is "revived".

I told him I would sign it for $10K... otherwise I would do my dam-best to get those funds (for myself... as one of a few remaining legitimate heirs / he has no kids).

I call him "freeze pop".

I think he hasn't "accepted" death.

by **Haggis_McMutton** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:56 am

chang50 wrote: I am very aware of the paradox inherent in a naturalist caring about what happens after death,perhaps you can recommend a good,but cheap therapist?Perhaps it never occurred to you,but not everyone desires what belief in theism potentially offers at death so it actually makes more sense for them to not convert.

Hitchens wrote:“The clear awareness of having been born into a losing struggle need not lead one into despair. I do not especially like the idea that one day I shall be tapped on the shoulder and informed, not that the party is over but that it is most assuredly going on—only henceforth in my absence. (It's the second of those thoughts: the edition of the newspaper that will come out on the day after I have gone, that is the more distressing.) Much more horrible, though, would be the announcement that the party was continuing forever, and that I was forbidden to leave. Whether it was a hellishly bad party or a party that was perfectly heavenly in every respect, the moment that it became eternal and compulsory would be the precise moment that it began to pall.”

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:There's no honor in death nor is there such thing as a good death.

-TG

+1
The only circumstance in which accepting death would seem reasonable is one in which not doing so would mean undue hardship for your loved ones.
But accepting death for an abstract ideal, like honour or bravery or something. f*ck that.

by **Haggis_McMutton** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:01 am

jimboston wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:My serious is answer is no, I have not accepted death. I have thought about it a lot and I try not to think about it at all.

My brother is one of those Cryonic freaks.

... but he can't afford to freeze his whole body, so he's only freezing his head.
(It's pretty expensive I guess.)

He asked me to sign a document with/for him... verifying he was "of sound mind and body" when he agreed to this Cryonic thing. This apparently would protect his assets after his death, so they can be used to first pay for the cryonics and later after he is "revived".

I told him I would sign it for $10K... otherwise I would do my dam-best to get those funds (for myself... as one of a few remaining legitimate heirs / he has no kids).

I call him "freeze pop".

I think he hasn't "accepted" death.

Hey, as long as he can afford it without sacrificing too much stuff right now, I don't see why criogenics wouldn't make sense.
Sure there's a very small chance that it will work, but the potential payout is huge.
If I could afford it I'd pay a couple thousand for the 0.1% chance that I'm gonna increase my lifespan 10x.

by **Gillipig** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:25 am

I'm looking forward to my death. I have created this new cool religion where all believers go to a special place after death. There will be flying monkeys and vulcanoes made of bubble gum, and hot chicks! Lots of hot chicks!! And especially many to those who randomly kill people in the name of my religion. Should be awesome!! Let's just hope it's actually true. I have about
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0000000000000000001% chance of it being true. But atleast that gives me the same odds as Christianity.

by **2dimes** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:47 am

Yes well as you point out so poignantly even though most of us are influenced by media, "hot chicks" is pretty subjective.

chang50 wrote:
2dimes wrote:
chang50 wrote:perhaps you can recommend a good,but cheap therapist?

Sorry, if you want Saxi (and in my opinion you do) it won't come cheap.

I'm only a poor pensioner so I think I'll pass on that one, but thanks anyway... : )

I say if you're happy and pose no danger to yourself or others. Stay crazy it's more fun.

by **Haggis_McMutton** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:48 am

For the record. I too find posts like Gillipig's annoying.

by **Ray Rider** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:49 am

nietzsche wrote:You are right to be upset, maybe I used wrong words. I have neither proof nor right to say there's nothing after death. But let's keep that discussion in the many threads for that, not in this one.

It's not that you are cheating but that's not what I intended when I asked if you have accepted you own death. I was going more with the existential meaning of it.

hey np man, I'm not upset at all! I just thought you were interested in how various people have come to terms with their own certain death at some time in the future. I didn't think you would limit the discussion to naturalism since that's not the worldview by which the majority of humanity through the millennia has come to terms with death. Anyway, I'm outta here, carry on!

by **jimboston** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:19 am

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
jimboston wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:My serious is answer is no, I have not accepted death. I have thought about it a lot and I try not to think about it at all.

My brother is one of those Cryonic freaks.

... but he can't afford to freeze his whole body, so he's only freezing his head.
(It's pretty expensive I guess.)

He asked me to sign a document with/for him... verifying he was "of sound mind and body" when he agreed to this Cryonic thing. This apparently would protect his assets after his death, so they can be used to first pay for the cryonics and later after he is "revived".

I told him I would sign it for $10K... otherwise I would do my dam-best to get those funds (for myself... as one of a few remaining legitimate heirs / he has no kids).

I call him "freeze pop".

I think he hasn't "accepted" death.

Hey, as long as he can afford it without sacrificing too much stuff right now, I don't see why criogenics wouldn't make sense.
Sure there's a very small chance that it will work, but the potential payout is huge.
If I could afford it I'd pay a couple thousand for the 0.1% chance that I'm gonna increase my lifespan 10x.

Let's say they keep you frozen for 100 years, 200 years, what have you.

Then they thaw and revive you.

*Everyone you know and love is long dead.
*If you had kids, and they had kids, etc... your great great great grandchildren have their own lives and don't know who you are. They don't care about you / they have no feelings for you. You may be a curiosity to them, that's it. (In my brother's case he has no children and so if he has any relatives it will be great great great grandnephews / nieces.
*Assuming you're not a famous historical figure... no one will care about your revival.
*You will have no marketable skills. You're only value would maybe be as a historian for the late 20th and early 21st century.
Of course they cryogenics people will likely have revived thousands of people by this point... so even your value there will be minimal.
*It's possible that you would have money... if you setup a trust and it was invested wisely while you slept; with compound interest you may be wealthy. It's also possible that you will be destitute... that with hyper-inflation and gov't seizure of the assets of those crygenically frozen, you could be broke.
*The values and world-view you "went to sleep" with will not jive with the current values. You won't fit in.

Do you really want to be revived in 200 years???

by **Haggis_McMutton** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:32 am

jimboston wrote:Let's say they keep you frozen for 100 years, 200 years, what have you.

Then they thaw and revive you.

*Everyone you know and love is long dead.
*If you had kids, and they had kids, etc... your great great great grandchildren have their own lives and don't know who you are. They don't care about you / they have no feelings for you. You may be a curiosity to them, that's it. (In my brother's case he has no children and so if he has any relatives it will be great great great grandnephews / nieces.
*Assuming you're not a famous historical figure... no one will care about your revival.
*You will have no marketable skills. You're only value would maybe be as a historian for the late 20th and early 21st century.
Of course they cryogenics people will likely have revived thousands of people by this point... so even your value there will be minimal.
*It's possible that you would have money... if you setup a trust and it was invested wisely while you slept; with compound interest you may be wealthy. It's also possible that you will be destitute... that with hyper-inflation and gov't seizure of the assets of those crygenically frozen, you could be broke.
*The values and world-view you "went to sleep" with will not jive with the current values. You won't fit in.

Do you really want to be revived in 200 years???

Granted, those are all valid points.

However, choosing between that and nonexistance? No contest.
After all, if it sucks SO MUCH I can always go back to nonexistance at any point.

And there's a shitload of positive points as well. Wouldn't you wanna see what the world looks like in 200 years?
If, as you say, there's many people being thawed,there'd probably be some support groups or something to get you re-adjusted and so on.

by **2dimes** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:40 am

What are the "marketable" skills 90% of the population posses currently? The ability to tweet their dissatisfaction with wages?

Maybe the lack of self worth preventing themselves from being filmed for TLC.

If Jim's brother is social I guess an extrovert, there might be a desire for some family but he should be able to find other people to interact with. Maybe he would find a thawed out lady and make a family. They could adopt if he's only a head.

Ok, maybe 90 is exaggerated, but there are a lot of people doing fine in north america these days that wouldn't be able to survive 100 years ago.

by **Timminz** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:54 am

In general, I have come to terms with the inevitability of my death, and the relative insignificance of my life.

Specifically, there was a moment in my life when I accepted my imminent death: I "knew" that I was about to die, and was surprisingly at ease with that "fact". Fortunately, I was wrong.

by **2dimes** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:13 pm

I have a pretty good concept of mixing the fact that I'm the center of my universe while not imposing that on others.

I'm near nothing to some and basically the equivalent of nonexistent to most of the universe. Well over 99% I'd estimate. That's ok with me.

I think I'm fine with dying, but lately I've become bothered about "running out of time" alive.

by **jimboston** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:20 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:After all, if it sucks SO MUCH I can always go back to nonexistance at any point.

Winning argument. Of course they will have outlawed suicide by this point, and will have technology that makes it impossible.

by **jimboston** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:27 pm

2dimes wrote:If Jim's brother is social I guess an extrovert, there might be a desire for some family but he should be able to find other people to interact with. Maybe he would find a thawed out lady and make a family. They could adopt if he's only a head.

Ok, maybe 90 is exaggerated, but there are a lot of people doing fine in north america these days that wouldn't be able to survive 100 years ago.

LOL!

Too bad he's an introvert.

So if they only have his head... how do they revive him?

1) Clone a new body from the genetic material in his head, and then implant his "brain image" into the clone.
2) Build a "robot" or some sort of cybernetic "body"... and implant his brain into said body.
3) Attach his unfrozen head to some sort of "robot"... I'm thinking something like a spider-leg body with a human head on top, but use your imagination.

by **nietzsche** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:16 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:+500 Saxibucks to Haggis.

-TG

You a fan of Tyr or just the quote itself?

Anyway +5000 saxbucks to Tails.
(saxi gave me the printing press, so I don't exactly need extras)

This is what I was fearing, how can I run a Tienda de Raya if Haggis is giving saxbucks away? soon I'll have nothing and will have to burn Saxi and Esmeralda Comission notes for heat.

by **nietzsche** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:22 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
nietzsche wrote:You are right to be upset, maybe I used wrong words. I have neither proof nor right to say there's nothing after death. But let's keep that discussion in the many threads for that, not in this one.

It's not that you are cheating but that's not what I intended when I asked if you have accepted you own death. I was going more with the existential meaning of it.

hey np man, I'm not upset at all! I just thought you were interested in how various people have come to terms with their own certain death at some time in the future. I didn't think you would limit the discussion to naturalism since that's not the worldview by which the majority of humanity through the millennia has come to terms with death. Anyway, I'm outta here, carry on!

Kierkegaard was one of the fathers of Existentialism and some say he's THE father. He was deeply religious, Christian to be exact. He said that everyday he had to renew his faith, he knew that his choice needed to be renewed daily to have the value and the power.

You are again right, I can think how there can be different ways of accepting death being a Christian, one of which can be pretty authentic. It's just that it's always been in my mind that religion serves the purpose of numbing the anxiety of nothingness.

by **2dimes** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:07 pm

jimboston wrote:
So if they only have his head... how do they revive him?

1) Clone a new body from the genetic material in his head, and then implant his "brain image" into the clone.
2) Build a "robot" or some sort of cybernetic "body"... and implant his brain into said body.
3) Attach his unfrozen head to some sort of "robot"... I'm thinking something like a spider-leg body with a human head on top, but use your imagination.

The robot fantasy is one that seems popular. I doubt it would be fun other than you could be 30 feet tall and shoot fire out of your titanium anus.

You can't be enjoying your favorite foods, and snuggle time. You're not really living are you?

by **chang50** on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:
chang50 wrote: I am very aware of the paradox inherent in a naturalist caring about what happens after death,perhaps you can recommend a good,but cheap therapist?Perhaps it never occurred to you,but not everyone desires what belief in theism potentially offers at death so it actually makes more sense for them to not convert.

Hitchens wrote:“The clear awareness of having been born into a losing struggle need not lead one into despair. I do not especially like the idea that one day I shall be tapped on the shoulder and informed, not that the party is over but that it is most assuredly going on—only henceforth in my absence. (It's the second of those thoughts: the edition of the newspaper that will come out on the day after I have gone, that is the more distressing.) Much more horrible, though, would be the announcement that the party was continuing forever, and that I was forbidden to leave. Whether it was a hellishly bad party or a party that was perfectly heavenly in every respect, the moment that it became eternal and compulsory would be the precise moment that it began to pall.”

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:There's no honor in death nor is there such thing as a good death.

-TG

+1
The only circumstance in which accepting death would seem reasonable is one in which not doing so would mean undue hardship for your loved ones.
But accepting death for an abstract ideal, like honour or bravery or something. f*ck that.

Thanx for the Hitch quote,coming up to the anniversary of his death already.The only person I have never met but miss greatly..

by **jimboston** on Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:12 am

2dimes wrote:
jimboston wrote:
So if they only have his head... how do they revive him?

1) Clone a new body from the genetic material in his head, and then implant his "brain image" into the clone.
2) Build a "robot" or some sort of cybernetic "body"... and implant his brain into said body.
3) Attach his unfrozen head to some sort of "robot"... I'm thinking something like a spider-leg body with a human head on top, but use your imagination.

The robot fantasy is one that seems popular. I doubt it would be fun other than you could be 30 feet tall and shoot fire out of your titanium anus.

You can't be enjoying your favorite foods, and snuggle time. You're not really living are you?

Which robot fantasy???? Number 2 or 3???

If I was a future person and I could choose how to reanimate people, I would put their real heads onto some sort of silly robot body. It would be fun to look at all these "neanderthals" and laugh at the silly robot bodies we've created for them.

If I myself was being reanimated, I would want to be put in a clone body of myself. One that has been "grown" in a lab, so it's in perfect physical condition. In the lab they would have perfected the manner to grow these clones... feeding them all the right nutrients, and using electro-stimulation and maybe other stuff (we haven't thought of) to exercise the muscles.

by **2dimes** on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:18 am

Both 2 & 3 in my opinion, though obviosly 2 is a bit closer to living.

The problem for your bro is he has selected the budget plan. They will thaw him out in the test stages of the program where they might still be losing or damaging the samples. Then they will be attatching him to the early beta robots that suck. Maybe that will be good enough and he will just be happy to have the chance to carry on.

Possibly he will last long enough to eventually get a robot upgrade. As you said though he'll probably be broke. The one bonus might be, homelessness as a cyborg may offer shelter from the elements kind of like snails and tortoises.