Time to revoke the Church's Tax-Free Status

[Juan_Bottom]

If someone is qualified for something do they still consider it charity? Because it is.

I don't regard it as such. If you're a contributing member of society, then you're paying in already, so it's your money. You've invested in the government, as J.K. Rowling said, and the government is investing it back into you.

A) What about those who aren't contributing members of society, they are just as qualified in this "non-biased" system. I don't think you are going to argue that everyone who receives help from the government necessarily contributes.

Ok question for a few of you guys. Do you honestly and completly believe that most churches are as corrupt as the federal governments of Canada or the Uniteds States of America?

Yes.
And they are less beholden to the people. They're rogue para-nations who are outside of all civilian oversight and authority. Our United States government has more control over many sovereign country's than it has over the American Catholic Church.

B) Is this an emotional response or your honest opinion based on personal experience?

A)
Are you talking about kids who are born with Down Syndrome or something? They don't "contribute" to society as a whole, yet their parents will receive financial help to raise them? I would never argue a Spartan solution to any problem. That is, I don't believe for one moment that we would be a stronger nation, as Hitler proposed, if we euthanized our meekest neighbors.
Or, you could also mean people who spend their lives on the Dole while being able to work. Well,.... I'm not convinced that it happens to a provable degree. That's a problem for our government to address, if it exists, but then it's also a problem a Charities don't have to address. So you could make the same argument about the charities, that not everyone who receives help contributes to anything.

B)
Does it sound dishonest? Whatever corruption you've found taking place in any government, it's just as likely to take place in a church, because both are made up of people. But only in the church are the members dogmatic believers in their leaders and their hierarchy. And only in a church are the leaders allowed and sometimes expected to keep their practices opaque to outsiders. And humble obedience is often seen as a true virtue. You can use the Freedom of Information Act to force the US government to share it's secrets. But you can't do that to the Methodists, for example. And our government is scared to death to challenge any religious organization that American's don't regard as a cult.

[BigBallinStalin]

JB doesn't understand the difference between incentives for those in the market, in the government, and in community-based organizations (clubs). He thinks they're all the same, which is weird.

Then there's his opinion about Dogmatic believers, Spooky Church Practices, etc. while the US government is so transparent because he assumes the Freedom of Information Act is actually effective (lol)--as if that alone was enough anyway. Methodists are a cult which the governments fears, and blah blah blah. I can't believe I read that.

Strong faith in the State and rabid bad bigotry against religious groups. Good job, JB.

[Funkyterrance]

Or, you could also mean people who spend their lives on the Dole while being able to work. Well,.... I'm not convinced that it happens to a provable degree. That's a problem for our government to address, if it exists, but then it's also a problem a Charities don't have to address. So you could make the same argument about the charities, that not everyone who receives help contributes to anything.

Yeah I was referring to the above group but I almost choked on my drink at the bolded portion. Of course this happens, only the severity of the degree is debatable. I've witnessed it many times myself and the amount of people who are investigated and busted is staggering. Fraud in this manner is quite widespread.

B)
Does it sound dishonest? Whatever corruption you've found taking place in any government, it's just as likely to take place in a church, because both are made up of people. But only in the church are the members dogmatic believers in their leaders and their hierarchy. And only in a church are the leaders allowed and sometimes expected to keep their practices opaque to outsiders. And humble obedience is often seen as a true virtue. You can use the Freedom of Information Act to force the US government to share it's secrets. But you can't do that to the Methodists, for example. And our government is scared to death to challenge any religious organization that American's don't regard as a cult.

Not dishonest, I hope you don't think I was accusing you of that... Just based on emotion rather than actual experience of character from either institution. There are of course similarities between government corruption and that inside churches but neither institution is necessarily composed of more corrupt individuals. That's why I am asking for some evidence that you know any individuals from either.

[Juan_Bottom]

Not dishonest, I hope you don't think I was accusing you of that... Just based on emotion rather than actual experience of character from either institution. There are of course similarities between government corruption and that inside churches but neither institution is necessarily composed of more corrupt individuals. That's why I am asking for some evidence that you know any individuals from either.

Oh. I did think that at first.
Well the question was "do you think churches are as corrupt as governments," and I say yes. Both system's are made up of men. And all men are corruptible, as Samuel Adams liked to say.
I don't believe one is more corrupt than the other, but I do believe that it is a lot easier to hide corruption within the confines of a church's political structure than it is to hide corruption within a normal western democracy's political structure. Our government's are, and ought to be, transparent; While a Church's political system doesn't have to be.

[2dimes]

Ok I guess tax them and pay off the debt.

[Funkyterrance]

Not dishonest, I hope you don't think I was accusing you of that... Just based on emotion rather than actual experience of character from either institution. There are of course similarities between government corruption and that inside churches but neither institution is necessarily composed of more corrupt individuals. That's why I am asking for some evidence that you know any individuals from either.

Oh. I did think that at first.
Well the question was "do you think churches are as corrupt as governments," and I say yes. Both system's are made up of men. And all men are corruptible, as Samuel Adams liked to say.
I don't believe one is more corrupt than the other, but I do believe that it is a lot easier to hide corruption within the confines of a church's political structure than it is to hide corruption within a normal western democracy's political structure. Our government's are, and ought to be, transparent; While a Church's political system doesn't have to be.

While a government may seem more transparent it could very well be the reverse. A church has more of the "town meeting" atmosphere where the "citizens", if you will, are in much closer and more frequent contact with the officials, other members and goings on of the church. It just seems like a much more intimate relationship so the cracks of corruption would be more apparent.