How do you view others on the site?

[Funkyterrance]

I view all posters with disdain and loathing.

Tell us something we don't already know?

[Ray Rider]

I would say the vibe of this site is strongly liberal. There are a few right wingers who post a lot but I think their numbers are actually pretty small. You guys have already named the big posters on either side of the spectrum but if anything I think most posters are somewhere between the middle and the left.

Yeah, I would tend to agree with that view. I should clarity my opening post by saying that I don't think very many people on the site are neutral/balanced/centrist (instead of "moderates" as I said); most aren't too extreme in their views on the site and if they have an extreme view, it's usually only on a single issue, so in that way you could consider most to be some sort of moderates. However very few seem to be able to take a balanced of view of things and point out the errors in thinking on both sides of an issue. TDG seems quite good at that, however, imho. Examples of this can be seen in the discussions of the recent US election (where he condemned both sides almost equally for their failings) or in the discussions on the Catholic church (firmly remaining a RC and yet willing to point out problems and disagree with the church on certain issues).

the left-right spectrum is woefully inaccurate IMO

Far Right
HapSmo
john9blue

define "far-right"

That's the whole point; everyone's definition will be different, and yet we tend to fall back to using these vague, nearly meaningless terms anyway.

How can I really be that far right when I don't really have opinions one way or the other on:
-religion
-abortion
-death penalty

not to mention,
- I want to cut the military

I'll agree I am far right fiscally, but not socially

And that's where the right/left dichotomy fails; if a person is far right in one aspect but not in another (say you were far right fiscally but far left socially), where would that place you? For me, your recent discussion about Piers Morgan is what tipped the scales...

I love false dichotomies! Let's begin!

Right
(they get blue because they're the good guys)
2. TGD, saxi, BBS, Woodruff, Ray Rider, john9blue, tzor,


The names in the #1 category are lost causes. Woo-hoo!
Those in #2 are moderate.

Yes! I'm a moderate good guy! lol Now I can die in peace...wait a sec! I think I spoke too soon:

Ideological: Extreme Right
Night Strike, PhatScotty, Ray Rider, john9blue, HapSmo, tzor

Shucks, I guess I'm on the extreme right!

lol but see, it's fun to find out roughly what people think your political beliefs are. I just wish I would've asked everyone to post what their own position is; then it would've been interesting to compare that to where everyone else placed them.

So Saxi, you seriously don't believe anyone is left of center on the site besides GreecePWNS? I find that kinda surprising.

I think that certain users here are so far left and/or far right that they have caused the spectrum to turn into a circular loop by virtue of the horseshoe theory, thus using either term at this point has become meaningless.

I can't think of one representative of the far left here..

Perhaps not so much economically extreme left, but I've seen quite a bit of the anarchistic, secularist, political correctness, or green "left" elements.

I would agree, although even in terms of economics there seem to be a lot who are propounding a philosophy of spreading the wealth around, raising taxes much higher--specifically on the rich, greater governmental regulations, more Keynesian economics, more protectionist policies (to attempt to stop jobs from leaving the continent), etc. which I would tend to see as strong "left-wing" policies. I guess you don't see many out in the open advocating communism and state takeovers of business, but instead there are those who were clearly in favor of state takeovers in the form of bailouts to the auto industry and greater governmental oversight in areas like that. I think the reason you don't see more people on the extreme left economically on the site is because we have some pretty strong capitalistic posters who tend to dominate those discussions (Patches, BBS, TDG, etc).

you tow the liberal atheist party line. you're the same as 2/3 of the forum.

And here, by the second page of the thread, we already have someone putting his opponent into a box based on the liberal left wing vs conservative right wing dichotomy. Funny, this was only shortly after J9B was stating:

the left-right spectrum is woefully inaccurate IMO

[john9blue]

you tow the liberal atheist party line. you're the same as 2/3 of the forum.

And here, by the second page of the thread, we already have someone putting his opponent into a box based on the liberal left wing vs conservative right wing dichotomy. Funny, this was only shortly after J9B was stating:

the left-right spectrum is woefully inaccurate IMO

you must be new here

[Ray Rider]

you tow the liberal atheist party line. you're the same as 2/3 of the forum.

And here, by the second page of the thread, we already have someone putting his opponent into a box based on the liberal left wing vs conservative right wing dichotomy. Funny, this was only shortly after J9B was stating:

the left-right spectrum is woefully inaccurate IMO

you must be new here

I joined 2 months after you, man! I think you (and probably AAFitz) have been in so many discussions with trolls here over the years that it's started to affect you; you immediately tried to put him in a liberal atheist box (along with 2/3 of the site) and he automatically tried to fit you into some sort of stereotypical Christian box. Whether right or wrong, neither label would serve to promote a profitable discussion in any way. However it is interesting to see how people tend to label others and their reasoning behind doing so, which is the purpose of this thread.

Btw I generally agree with what you're trying to say on the site, but I also usually disagree with the way you go about it. Antagonizing a person you're trying to hold a discussion with doesn't help anything. Player & William found this out today in the healthcare discussion. I found it pretty amusing:

Then you are disgusting.

you are a purple headed snot monster

You're an idiot.

you're a yellow nosed poo face

[Dukasaur]

Dammit! Left out again!

Am I going to have to spam the crap out of this forum or what?

That's okay. Nobody considered me important enough to evaluate, either. f*ck 'em.

[muy_thaiguy]

Dammit! Left out again!

Am I going to have to spam the crap out of this forum or what?

That's okay. Nobody considered me important enough to evaluate, either. f*ck 'em.

Eh. I'll live. Though if a registration goes through on another forum, I'll be able to have some fun with the people there.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I think it should be legal and morally acceptable to kill babies shortly after they are born in some cases. I have no issues recognizing that this is extremist according to modern standards. People should not be afraid of taking extreme views, if they are the right ones to take.

I may be wrong, but I think this was morally acceptable for most of human history. I think personhood usually wasn't granted till some time after birth.

Don't know If I'd state that as forcefully as you do, especially given that after birth, in civilized societies the cost of putting the baby in an orphanage is relatively low, but I agree that passage through the birth canal isn't this magical process that makes someone a person by default.

you tow the liberal atheist party line. you're the same as 2/3 of the forum.

And here, by the second page of the thread, we already have someone putting his opponent into a box based on the liberal left wing vs conservative right wing dichotomy. Funny, this was only shortly after J9B was stating:

the left-right spectrum is woefully inaccurate IMO

you must be new here

I joined 2 months after you, man! I think you (and probably AAFitz) have been in so many discussions with trolls here over the years that it's started to affect you; you immediately tried to put him in a liberal atheist box (along with 2/3 of the site) and he automatically tried to fit you into some sort of stereotypical Christian box. Whether right or wrong, neither label would serve to promote a profitable discussion in any way. However it is interesting to see how people tend to label others and their reasoning behind doing so, which is the purpose of this thread.

Btw I generally agree with what you're trying to say on the site, but I also usually disagree with the way you go about it. Antagonizing a person you're trying to hold a discussion with doesn't help anything.

See, here's where the misunderstanding stems from. John isn't trying to hold a discussion, rather, through the kindness of his heart, he's throwing us scraps of the perfect truth he has discovered with his own tears, sweat and blood while the rest of us wasted our time away posting vacuous crap on these forums. :p

[Gillipig]

You guys can sort me into the anarchist category. Oh wait, no one even thought of that as being an option! Saxi and all his labels, pff, can't even include all ideologies.

[thegreekdog]

Ideological: Right Wing
the Greek Dog, BBS, Woodruff, Symmetry

Reported for baiting.

[thegreekdog]

^ this is why left/right is meaningless. nobody will ever label themselves as an extremist.

The only one who got closest was Saxitoxin.

[betiko]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

[Ray Rider]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

[betiko]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

[Gillipig]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I'd say it's more than that in most european countries.

[kentington]

Since I didn't get placed, can I be Far-Out?

You may be green, but you're definitely red on the inside, you watermelon communist.

Dang the pages add up fast.

I was hoping I wouldn't be found out so soon. I have been trying to sow the seeds of communist deception amongst all of you, but alas now I will never get my communist wings with multiple conversions.

Unless... are you still interested BBS?

[chang50]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I've been trying to say this for ages here,it's not just politics,every topic is dominated by a US perspective even though it is an international forum,to the extent it is the default position.When THE economy,THE dollar,THE constitution are mentioned,we know which country is being discussed even though many other countries have them...

[kentington]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I've been trying to say this for ages here,it's not just politics,every topic is dominated by a US perspective even though it is an international forum,to the extent it is the default position.When THE economy,THE dollar,THE constitution are mentioned,we know which country is being discussed even though many other countries have them...

I think that is because you will find that the loudest voices on the forum speak about US issues. There are plenty of Europeans on here who do this and Americans as well.

The biggest reason is probably because the US is so huge and our main media doesn't discuss world events. Most Americans probably watch local news, this would suggest that most Americans probably don't know much about the opposite coast or the middle of their own country unless they live there or it is a natural disaster on a large scale.

[chang50]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I've been trying to say this for ages here,it's not just politics,every topic is dominated by a US perspective even though it is an international forum,to the extent it is the default position.When THE economy,THE dollar,THE constitution are mentioned,we know which country is being discussed even though many other countries have them...

I think that is because you will find that the loudest voices on the forum speak about US issues. There are plenty of Europeans on here who do this and Americans as well.

The biggest reason is probably because the US is so huge and our main media doesn't discuss world events. Most Americans probably watch local news, this would suggest that most Americans probably don't know much about the opposite coast or the middle of their own country unless they live there or it is a natural disaster on a large scale.

I think you are correct,I also think that this is entirely subconscious and no slight is intended.Perhaps the rise of the internet will open some eyes and change the collective consciousness.

[kentington]

I think you are correct,I also think that this is entirely subconscious and no slight is intended.Perhaps the rise of the internet will open some eyes and change the collective consciousness.

Yeah I don't think it is intentional either. The best you could do is post more info about other countries and hope those topics stay alive.

[BigBallinStalin]

Since I didn't get placed, can I be Far-Out?

You may be green, but you're definitely red on the inside, you watermelon communist.

Dang the pages add up fast.

I was hoping I wouldn't be found out so soon. I have been trying to sow the seeds of communist deception amongst all of you, but alas now I will never get my communist wings with multiple conversions.

Unless... are you still interested BBS?

[betiko]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I've been trying to say this for ages here,it's not just politics,every topic is dominated by a US perspective even though it is an international forum,to the extent it is the default position.When THE economy,THE dollar,THE constitution are mentioned,we know which country is being discussed even though many other countries have them...

I think that is because you will find that the loudest voices on the forum speak about US issues. There are plenty of Europeans on here who do this and Americans as well.

The biggest reason is probably because the US is so huge and our main media doesn't discuss world events. Most Americans probably watch local news, this would suggest that most Americans probably don't know much about the opposite coast or the middle of their own country unless they live there or it is a natural disaster on a large scale.

well, like the football topic. basically europeas and americans have both created a thread called "football (real)", and for 95% of the world population football is what some call soccer. Americans come regularly on the football thread to say the title is deceptive...

Anyway, I think it's quite funny because I remember during the US elections a french journalist made a little test. He went to see 10 american local news anchormen (covering the US elections) to ask them who is the actual french president. Not a single one of them was able to give the correct answer, some even answered Mitterand who died 20 years ago. A couple answered Sarkozy, close enough (he was until 6 month ago...).
I mean it's kind of ok for an average american not to know all the world leaders, but anchormen, seriously? the elections were 6 month ago. Not like asking who is the slovakian president (no offense to slovkas), It's expecting them to know the top 5-10 leaders. Probably good as well to know a little about mexican and canadian politics, the next door neighbours...
but which came first (chicken or egg question) the lazy american only interested in trivial next door news, or the incompetent journalist?
Hopefully you guys have the NYT, the washington post, newsweek and other quality news press.

[saxitoxin]

you guys are defining all this from an american spectrum right? cause right and left don't have the same meaning depending on the country!
I'm center right on a french spectrum, and that would be left close to extreme left on an american spectrum!

This is all based on whatever spectrum each individual poster reverts back to when trying to fit people into a box. The whole point of this discussion is that the right/left dichotomy isn't some sort off objective standard, which is why it's interesting to see how different people classify others differently.

true, but I still think 90% of posters here are doing it from a democrats/republicans point of you and I think that the republican point of view is extremist almost anywhere in the world. Each time there is a US election, I see polls regarding who the rest of the world would vote for if they were americans, and it's always like 75% for the democrat candidate.

I've been trying to say this for ages here,it's not just politics,every topic is dominated by a US perspective even though it is an international forum,to the extent it is the default position.When THE economy,THE dollar,THE constitution are mentioned,we know which country is being discussed even though many other countries have them...

I think that is because you will find that the loudest voices on the forum speak about US issues. There are plenty of Europeans on here who do this and Americans as well.

The biggest reason is probably because the US is so huge and our main media doesn't discuss world events. Most Americans probably watch local news, this would suggest that most Americans probably don't know much about the opposite coast or the middle of their own country unless they live there or it is a natural disaster on a large scale.

well, like the football topic. basically europeas and americans have both created a thread called "football (real)", and for 95% of the world population football is what some call soccer. Americans come regularly on the football thread to say the title is deceptive...

Anyway, I think it's quite funny because I remember during the US elections a french journalist made a little test. He went to see 10 american local news anchormen (covering the US elections) to ask them who is the actual french president. Not a single one of them was able to give the correct answer, some even answered Mitterand who died 20 years ago. A couple answered Sarkozy, close enough (he was until 6 month ago...).
I mean it's kind of ok for an average american not to know all the world leaders, but anchormen, seriously? the elections were 6 month ago. Not like asking who is the slovakian president (no offense to slovkas), It's expecting them to know the top 5-10 leaders. Probably good as well to know a little about mexican and canadian politics, the next door neighbours...
but which came first (chicken or egg question) the lazy american only interested in trivial next door news, or the incompetent journalist?
Hopefully you guys have the NYT, the washington post, newsweek and other quality news press.

Yeah, I'm sure a Moldovan TV station did the same thing in France and got offended that no French journalist knew their president. Everyone hopes they're living at the center of history.

[ZeekLTK]

You guys should use this rather than "left-right"... especially if you look at where the "left-right" you are trying to use sits... it only takes up a small portion of the overall picture:

[Funkyterrance]

Everyone hopes they're living at the center of history.

Speak for yourself.

[Juan_Bottom]

I'm a far-left liberal. But a few years ago I think I would have been seen as more left-moderate. Everything has shifted more to the right this past 15 years or so.

I argue pretty much in step with player on every issue, or nearly every issue, although we don't always approach the discussion the same way.
I'm a Militant Pantheist-Atheist and a Social Democrat. Being a Militant Atheist means that you strongly believe that religion does more harm than good for humanity.

I do believe that we liberal Americans need to use a Conservative approach to implementation of government. You cant go off writing up bills with no funding or whatever.


And the traffic here is heavily Conservative, but participation is all Liberal. Whenever there is an opinion vote the Conservative option is always the clear winner, but the Liberals dominate the thread.