Is This Normal?

[Funkyterrance]

“A moral system valid for all is basically immoral.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche........The Nazis: a Warning from History. In this series an eyewitness account tells of Hitler watching movies (which he did very often). If ever a scene showed (even fictional) cruelty to or death of an animal, Hitler would cover his eyes and look away until someone alerted him the scene was over. The documentary also commented on the German animal welfare laws that the Nazis introduced, which were unparalleled at the time.“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

Umm, yeah...
The fact that Hitler had to cover his eyes over animal slaughter on TV while ordering the deaths of millions suggests that for a modern person he was seriously fucked up, in other words a madman.
And the Gandhi quote, yeah he is assuming that people being treated morally is a given dude.
And Nietzsche had the hots for himself and probably thought that quote sounded clever. It's not a very profound idea and doesn't really apply to what we are talking about either. Well, maybe it does, but it's supporting my own argument more than anything; Hitler and Caesar came from both very different moral backgrounds. Hitler, considering his background, was a far more amoral person.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I don't get this avatar banning business.

There's 2 levels of discussion usually.

1. The discussion of the image itself. Ok, I get it, this is a business so it doesn't allow all the images that would fly on 4chan. No gore, no explicit porn, what not. Presumably because people would be involuntarily shocked, offended, grossed out or otherwise inconvenienced by these images. An image of Hitler however, I don't understand what reaction this is supposedly causing in people. Do you actively hate the guy so much that seeing a picture of him makes your blood boil? Does the mention of his name cause a visceral reaction deep in your soul? What exactly is going on with your mental state when you see his picture such that you feel a need to make showing his picture illegal ?

2. And this is the more retarded one. The discussion about the intent of the user when he uploaded the avatar. Are you fuckin kidding me? You do realise that to even entertain that intent is punishable is basically prosecuting thought crime?
Not only is it completely impossible to discern intent, it is also completely useless. Why should the intent matter to you? If I upload a picture of kittens while actively thinking about killing all jews, does that make the picture of kittens somehow different? What about if I write "kill all jews" on the kittens with font that's 99% transparent so that it is completely invisible to the naked eye. Does this make the image illegal? ffs, prosecuting intent is ridiculous. stick to what the image shows and how exactly the image causes you so much mental distress that you feel the need to try to make it illegal.

[kentington]

I don't get this avatar banning business.

There's 2 levels of discussion usually.

1. The discussion of the image itself. Ok, I get it, this is a business so it doesn't allow all the images that would fly on 4chan. No gore, no explicit porn, what not. Presumably because people would be involuntarily shocked, offended, grossed out or otherwise inconvenienced by these images. An image of Hitler however, I don't understand what reaction this is supposedly causing in people. Do you actively hate the guy so much that seeing a picture of him makes your blood boil? Does the mention of his name cause a visceral reaction deep in your soul? What exactly is going on with your mental state when you see his picture such that you feel a need to make showing his picture illegal ?

2. And this is the more retarded one. The discussion about the intent of the user when he uploaded the avatar. Are you fuckin kidding me? You do realise that to even entertain that intent is punishable is basically prosecuting thought crime?
Not only is it completely impossible to discern intent, it is also completely useless. Why should the intent matter to you? If I upload a picture of kittens while actively thinking about killing all jews, does that make the picture of kittens somehow different? What about if I write "kill all jews" on the kittens with font that's 99% transparent so that it is completely invisible to the naked eye. Does this make the image illegal? ffs, prosecuting intent is ridiculous. stick to what the image shows and how exactly the image causes you so much mental distress that you feel the need to try to make it illegal.

1. I agree with that. I think if anything foe (does foe remove everything? I have never used it), hate, or know that the person is ignorant.

2. I agree with that, there has been a case where the mods decided to enforce an avi change because of a users previous posts. Showing that the avatar was this users way of trolling. But then it is not that the intent is being punished, but the act of trolling. In that case would you punish them for trolling, inhibit their trolling ability by removing the avi, or ...?

[Haggis_McMutton]

1. I agree with that. I think if anything foe (does foe remove everything? I have never used it), hate, or know that the person is ignorant.

2. I agree with that, there has been a case where the mods decided to enforce an avi change because of a users previous posts. Showing that the avatar was this users way of trolling. But then it is not that the intent is being punished, but the act of trolling. In that case would you punish them for trolling, inhibit their trolling ability by removing the avi, or ...?

Trolling has to be personalized. If I put up an avatar that says "You are dumb", I'm guessing you'll agree that it's not trolling. For an avatar to be trolling it would have to somehow be targeting a person or a small group of people in a particularly nasty way. It'd also probably have to contain actual words or perhaps gore. If such an avatar was used (extreme case, an avatar could have some other poster's personal info in it) then it should of course fall into the trolling or personal info category.

What I think you're referring to is some guy putting the swastika (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't keep track of that particular club drama), in which case I have trouble believing the trolling verdict.(it seems more like he was trying to prove a point, like when MDF posted that close-up of a nipple).
Again I would ask the offended people to explain what kind of inadvertent and visceral reaction the sight of that image causes them such that they are petitioning to have it removed.

[kentington]

1. I agree with that. I think if anything foe (does foe remove everything? I have never used it), hate, or know that the person is ignorant.

2. I agree with that, there has been a case where the mods decided to enforce an avi change because of a users previous posts. Showing that the avatar was this users way of trolling. But then it is not that the intent is being punished, but the act of trolling. In that case would you punish them for trolling, inhibit their trolling ability by removing the avi, or ...?

Trolling has to be personalized. If I put up an avatar that says "You are dumb", I'm guessing you'll agree that it's not trolling. For an avatar to be trolling it would have to somehow be targeting a person or a small group of people in a particularly nasty way. It'd also probably have to contain actual words or perhaps gore. If such an avatar was used (extreme case, an avatar could have some other poster's personal info in it) then it should of course fall into the trolling or personal info category.

What I think you're referring to is some guy putting the swastika (correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't keep track of that particular club drama), in which case I have trouble believing the trolling verdict.(it seems more like he was trying to prove a point, like when MDF posted that close-up of a nipple).
Again I would ask the offended people to explain what kind of inadvertent and visceral reaction the sight of that image causes them such that they are petitioning to have it removed.

You are right. I wanted to know your opinion on that one. No need to read the thread much either, I think I stopped posting in it after the first couple of pages. It wasn't going anywhere.
I didn't see the report and I don't have any info on why it was reported, but some people really don't react well towards those images.
Would foe-ing remove the images as well as the posts? I imagine that if you are really bothered by the image, then you don't really care what the person has to say.

[Funkyterrance]

I don't get this avatar banning business.

There's 2 levels of discussion usually.

1. The discussion of the image itself. Ok, I get it, this is a business so it doesn't allow all the images that would fly on 4chan. No gore, no explicit porn, what not. Presumably because people would be involuntarily shocked, offended, grossed out or otherwise inconvenienced by these images. An image of Hitler however, I don't understand what reaction this is supposedly causing in people. Do you actively hate the guy so much that seeing a picture of him makes your blood boil? Does the mention of his name cause a visceral reaction deep in your soul? What exactly is going on with your mental state when you see his picture such that you feel a need to make showing his picture illegal ?

2. And this is the more retarded one. The discussion about the intent of the user when he uploaded the avatar. Are you fuckin kidding me? You do realise that to even entertain that intent is punishable is basically prosecuting thought crime?
Not only is it completely impossible to discern intent, it is also completely useless. Why should the intent matter to you? If I upload a picture of kittens while actively thinking about killing all jews, does that make the picture of kittens somehow different? What about if I write "kill all jews" on the kittens with font that's 99% transparent so that it is completely invisible to the naked eye. Does this make the image illegal? ffs, prosecuting intent is ridiculous. stick to what the image shows and how exactly the image causes you so much mental distress that you feel the need to try to make it illegal.

For the record I'm not actually overly offended by any of the images. They are what they are. I'm just wondering about the minds of the people who feel the need to post them. You've got a problem with discussing the intent? Why? What's wrong with understanding what our fellow CCers are all about? I've learned a great deal since this thread was started, for better or worse. I've also never reported anyone for their avatar/username but I think that if they option exists and it's within the rules, why can't someone else?
Sorry if this gets your biscuits burning but no one is out for blood here. As far as reacting to usernames and avatars, some people have more than an apathetic response to certain images. It just sounds like you are making them out to be ridiculous for their emotional responses and acting on them. That may not be how you act, or me either but that doesn't mean it's an inferior way to be, as you are hinting.

[Haggis_McMutton]

For the record I'm not actually overly offended by any of the images. They are what they are. I'm just wondering about the minds of the people who feel the need to post them. You've got a problem with discussing the intent? Why? What's wrong with understanding what our fellow CCers are all about? I've learned a great deal since this thread was started, for better or worse. I've also never reported anyone for their avatar/username but I think that if they option exists and it's within the rules, why can't someone else?
Sorry if this gets your biscuits burning but no one is out for blood here. As far as reacting to usernames and avatars, some people have more than an apathetic response to certain images. It just sounds like you are making them out to be ridiculous for their emotional responses and acting on them. That may not be how you act, or me either but that doesn't mean it's an inferior way to be, as you are hinting.

It was more of a general rant, I can see no one is out for blood here but I usually don't post in the places where people really are after blood (C&A forum)

Not saying we can't discuss intent for shits and giggles, I'm saying intent is irrelevant when deciding whether something is acceptable or not. Often the users asking for the banning of an avatar bring intent up as in "he wouldn't post that if he's just a history buff, clearly he's a neo-nazi" or whatever. I'm saying this is ridiculous. The image is what the image is and that's all that matters.

Lastly, I was indeed slightly condescending towards people who report this stuff just because I think we in general ascribe too much meaning to the words "I'm offended".
Saying "I'm offended" isn't some magic bullet that let's you win the conversation. I want the people who report these things to resort less to vague emotional appeals and to saying "this offends me" and to start explaining more why it offends them and why they can't deal with it by foe-ing the user. Not saying they are necessarily ridiculous, just asking for an explanation from them before we go punishing people.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm offended! BAN HAGGIS.

[kentington]

I'm offended! BAN HAGGIS.

Yep his avatar is buggin'. Where is the petition?

[Haggis_McMutton]

I'm offended! BAN HAGGIS.

I'm offended by your offense.

[BigBallinStalin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 7KWY#t=35s

[Haggis_McMutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

[BigBallinStalin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

You know, that's what I find lacking in many films. Maybe it's because I've seen the Big Lebowski around... 8 times? But I don't watch other films as often--because they lack that quality of dialogue. Oh no... is this circular reasoning? Am I trapped? Is this eternity?

[Funkyterrance]

It was more of a general rant, I can see no one is out for blood here but I usually don't post in the places where people really are after blood (C&A forum)

Not saying we can't discuss intent for shits and giggles, I'm saying intent is irrelevant when deciding whether something is acceptable or not. Often the users asking for the banning of an avatar bring intent up as in "he wouldn't post that if he's just a history buff, clearly he's a neo-nazi" or whatever. I'm saying this is ridiculous. The image is what the image is and that's all that matters.

Lastly, I was indeed slightly condescending towards people who report this stuff just because I think we in general ascribe too much meaning to the words "I'm offended".
Saying "I'm offended" isn't some magic bullet that let's you win the conversation. I want the people who report these things to resort less to vague emotional appeals and to saying "this offends me" and to start explaining more why it offends them and why they can't deal with it by foe-ing the user. Not saying they are necessarily ridiculous, just asking for an explanation from them before we go punishing people.

I pretty much agree with your stance. I don't think people should be forced to do anything on here tbh. I've been in this position and it's not a nice feeling.
For me I'd like to know a little more about this community. Instead of just sitting back and saying "whatever man" and shaking my head, I'd rather have a clear idea of just who I'm dealing with. If someone has an avatar of Hitler and they truly think he was a great man and was just misunderstood I could then at least know where they stand. I'm not satisfied to just assume someone is jesting, proving a point or trying to be cute because this is not a safe assumption. If someone has really got a hard-on for Hitler for real, I just might make an effort to really get my game face on when they are my opponent, who knows.
So why not ask for explanation regarding these avatars/usernames? At the very worst case these people will be admitting what a lot of people are assuming anyway. Best case they will clear up some misconceptions that others may have about them.

[Dukasaur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

I do love Lebowski, but Falling Down definitely has more quotable lines and memorable scenes.

"This is what you look like when you're not economically viable!"

"Oh, looks like we have a critic. I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick."

"What were you, the little drummer boy? You must have been nine years old."

"They lie to everybody. They lie to the fish."

"We're not the same. I'm an American, and you're a sick asshole."

"What are we doing? Here I am calling you Rick and Sheila like we're at some kind of an AA meeting. I've known my boss for 20 years and I still call him Mister."

"But where has he been eating his lunch?"

Those all came to me faster than I could type them. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"I don't know -- a lot of guns. All the guns in the fucking world."

[Funkyterrance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

I do love Lebowski, but Falling Down definitely has more quotable lines and memorable scenes.

"This is what you look like when you're not economically viable!"

"Oh, looks like we have a critic. I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick."

"What were you, the little drummer boy? You must have been nine years old."

"They lie to everybody. They lie to the fish."

"We're not the same. I'm an American, and you're a sick asshole."

"What are we doing? Here I am calling you Rick and Sheila like we're at some kind of an AA meeting. I've known my boss for 20 years and I still call him Mister."

"But where has he been eating his lunch?"

Those all came to me faster than I could type them. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"I don't know -- a lot of guns. All the guns in the fucking world."

Yeah, this has got absolutely no relevance. Start another thread?

[daddy1gringo]

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

You know, that's what I find lacking in many films. Maybe it's because I've seen the Big Lebowski around... 8 times? But I don't watch other films as often--because they lack that quality of dialogue. Oh no... is this circular reasoning? Am I trapped? Is this eternity?

Try Shenandnoah with James Stewart. Actually, Casablanca has to take the prize.

Peter Lorre: You despise me don’t you Rick?
Bogart: If I thought about you much I suppose I would.

[BigBallinStalin]

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

You know, that's what I find lacking in many films. Maybe it's because I've seen the Big Lebowski around... 8 times? But I don't watch other films as often--because they lack that quality of dialogue. Oh no... is this circular reasoning? Am I trapped? Is this eternity?

Try Shenandnoah with James Stewart. Actually, Casablanca has to take the prize.

Peter Lorre: You despise me don’t you Rick?
Bogart: If I thought about you much I suppose I would.

Casablanca? ... MYEH, SEE!

[Funkyterrance]

Cute, guys.

[Haggis_McMutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

I do love Lebowski, but Falling Down definitely has more quotable lines and memorable scenes.

"This is what you look like when you're not economically viable!"

"Oh, looks like we have a critic. I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick."

"What were you, the little drummer boy? You must have been nine years old."

"They lie to everybody. They lie to the fish."

"We're not the same. I'm an American, and you're a sick asshole."

"What are we doing? Here I am calling you Rick and Sheila like we're at some kind of an AA meeting. I've known my boss for 20 years and I still call him Mister."

"But where has he been eating his lunch?"

Those all came to me faster than I could type them. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"I don't know -- a lot of guns. All the guns in the fucking world."

Haven't seen that one. I'll check it out.

[Funkyterrance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CTVnqQn7KWY#t=35s

Lebowski might well have the highest proportion of quotable lines and memorable short scenes out of any full length movie ever. Love that movie.

I do love Lebowski, but Falling Down definitely has more quotable lines and memorable scenes.

"This is what you look like when you're not economically viable!"

"Oh, looks like we have a critic. I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick."

"What were you, the little drummer boy? You must have been nine years old."

"They lie to everybody. They lie to the fish."

"We're not the same. I'm an American, and you're a sick asshole."

"What are we doing? Here I am calling you Rick and Sheila like we're at some kind of an AA meeting. I've known my boss for 20 years and I still call him Mister."

"But where has he been eating his lunch?"

Those all came to me faster than I could type them. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

"I don't know -- a lot of guns. All the guns in the fucking world."

Haven't seen that one. I'll check it out.

You wouldn't like it, no scenes involving the maiming of small children or puppies.

[2dimes]

He shoots up a fast food place. You'll love it.

[Funkyterrance]

He shoots up a fast food place. You'll love it.

Nobody dies or is horribly wounded, 2dimes. That's like asking you or I to watch those town meetings on public access tv.

[2dimes]

Those shows depend heavily on who is elected to town council.

[GeneralRisk]

“A moral system valid for all is basically immoral.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche........The Nazis: a Warning from History. In this series an eyewitness account tells of Hitler watching movies (which he did very often). If ever a scene showed (even fictional) cruelty to or death of an animal, Hitler would cover his eyes and look away until someone alerted him the scene was over. The documentary also commented on the German animal welfare laws that the Nazis introduced, which were unparalleled at the time.“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
― Mahatma Gandhi

Umm, yeah...
The fact that Hitler had to cover his eyes over animal slaughter on TV while ordering the deaths of millions suggests that for a modern person he was seriously fucked up, in other words a madman.I believe he watched films, Germany had TV, but I never read about Hitler watching TV. I am unaware of Hitler ordering the deaths of millions. Please be more specific in your accusation as to allow me to rebut. Hitler generated enormous and genuine support. His views very often matched those of huge numbers of the German population. That’s something that is simply incomprehensible if we take at face value this modern day portrayal of Hitler as a madman. If you want a more accurate description of WW2 history, then I suggest looking at more credible historical sources then the Hollywood, WW 2 victors propaganda that has bombarded the United States citizens and the Post war Germany with its US puppet government. At present it is illegal in most countries in Europe as well as in Israel to deny or question any segment of the so called "Holocaust". Thank god that at least for the time being, we here in the US can still debate the issue. Few do and the few who do are often labeled as anti semitic. They don't want you to question it because, [in my opinion] there is no proof of "homicidal gas chambers" and if Hitler truly wanted the Jews exterminated they could of easily done like General Eisenhower did in his death camps{I.E. Allow no food, water, shelter, prison uniforms, showers, latrines and medical care be given to prisoners.] Auschwitz had 2 story brick heated buildings with kitchens, showers and flush toilets for inmates. Inmates received uniforms and in many cases a tattooed No. used to identify the inmates. In Eisenhower's death camps the officials never cared who the inmates were and when they died the inmates dog tag was sniped in half and discarded. 50 million civilians died during WW2 of which includes a supposed 6 million dead Jews. After the breakup of the Soviet Union the plaque at Auschwitz of which claimed 4 million died in the camp was changed to 1.3 mullion. The 6 million figure is still used today despite this fact. Never the less many Jews did die, but in all reality they won the war. Adolph Hitler lost, Germany is still occupied and the State of Israel still receives monies for holocaust slave labor reparations from Germany and in a large part owes its very existence to the NAZI's and the Transfer Agreement[Transfer Agreement] Agreement between Adolf Hitler and an organization of Zionist Jews in 1933, which made Hitler "the chief economic sponsor of the state of Israel". A sweeping, worldwide economic boycott of Germany by Jews helped spur a deal between the Nazis and Zionists. At that time, there were few Jews in Palestine, but from 1933 through 1936, 60,000 German Jews immigrated into the region, bringing with them $100,000,000 dollars ($1.6 billion in 2009 dollars).

And the Gandhi quote, yeah he is assuming that people being treated morally is a given dude.
And Nietzsche had the hots for himself and probably thought that quote sounded clever. It's not a very profound idea and doesn't really apply to what we are talking about either. Well, maybe it does, but it's supporting my own argument more than anything; Hitler and Caesar came from both very different moral backgrounds. Hitler, considering his background, was a far more amoral person.

You can be the judge on who and what is more moral. I live in a Country that has allowed the murder of 50 million unborn humans over the course of the last 40 yearsOld German TV