So what's the problem with horse meat?

[AndyDufresne]

I don't have a problem with them putting potentially toxic chemicals such as nutrisweet in food. I just want clear labelling so I can make the choice of what to eat and feed my kids. If a person wants to save money and shop at walmart like most do. That's fine, personally I want to live where I can maintain the choice not to.

The old not just the freedom to notion but also the freedom from notion.


--Andy

[2dimes]

Freedom to eat Horse and freedom from being fed Horse against my wish?

[stahrgazer]

Lead is the one you really mean here, I think.

No, I meant mercury, but lead is one of the "other substances."

Mercury was available in an eyelide ointment called "Stye" for many decades (used to dry up the eyelid-pimples called styes) but has now been banned from the ointment or any medicinal purpose because research eventually showed that mercury, even applied topically, builds in body cells and destroys proper reproductive functioning, leading to birth defects. They had "proper labelling" - warnings - for a while but then eventually banned it at all.

The point is, some chemicals they inject in horses may also build up in the body if humans consume it even if the meat of any individual horse is in non-lethal or non-problematic quantity, which is why the US banned using horse for human consumption within the U.S.

But, let's turn this a bit. What if beef were incorporated into what was supposed to be horse meat in India (where for some religious purposes cows are sacred/nonedible.) Or, as someone pointed out, pork in "kosher" meat for Jews.

People should be able to know what they're eating.

[BigBallinStalin]

Lead is the one you really mean here, I think.

No, I meant mercury, but lead is one of the "other substances."

Mercury was available in an eyelide ointment called "Stye" for many decades (used to dry up the eyelid-pimples called styes) but has now been banned from the ointment or any medicinal purpose because research eventually showed that mercury, even applied topically, builds in body cells and destroys proper reproductive functioning, leading to birth defects. They had "proper labelling" - warnings - for a while but then eventually banned it at all.

The point is, some chemicals they inject in horses may also build up in the body if humans consume it even if the meat of any individual horse is in non-lethal or non-problematic quantity, which is why the US banned using horse for human consumption within the U.S.

Can't you argue the same against cattle; therefore, ban it?

[2dimes]

No because even though it might still happen since few people respect the laws. It is illegal to inject those things that are not aproved into cattle because people eat them.

[BigBallinStalin]

No because even though it might still happen since few people respect the laws. It is illegal to inject those things that are not aproved into cattle because people eat them.

And if horse meat consumption was legalized, then the same restrictions that apply to cattle should also apply to that kind of horsemeat; therefore, stahrgazer's position lacks merit.


But what of different kinds of horse meat? With race horses, they put a lot of shit into them (to use a technical term). All that stuff can be filtered out over time (30-90 days, give or take), so even the problem of having weird stuff in that meat can be resolved.

[2dimes]

I believe there's an analogy regarding your aunt having balls that applies here.

[stahrgazer]

No because even though it might still happen since few people respect the laws. It is illegal to inject those things that are not aproved into cattle because people eat them.

And if horse meat consumption was legalized, then the same restrictions that apply to cattle should also apply to that kind of horsemeat; therefore, stahrgazer's position lacks merit.


But what of different kinds of horse meat? With race horses, they put a lot of shit into them (to use a technical term). All that stuff can be filtered out over time (30-90 days, give or take), so even the problem of having weird stuff in that meat can be resolved.

My position does not lack merit.

Cattle are grown FOR human consumption,and their injections are controlled for that purpose. Horses are grown in the U.S. for other purposes, so their injections are not controlled for human consumption.

If you'd like to argue that a rancher should be able to have a "horses for human consumption" farm, with their injections and other intake being controlled for human consumption, I might agree, although I can see where folks would be concerned that the wrong types of horses - those whose injections were not consumption-controlled - might end up in the horseburgers being sold as "for human consumption."

And apparently you missed the point that in some cases, chemicals cannot be "filtered out" over time, but instead, imbeds in the tissues with a cumulative effect all the way down the chain (look for my mention of DDT, Mercury, and someone else's additon of Lead, if you want to see that post.)

[BigBallinStalin]

No because even though it might still happen since few people respect the laws. It is illegal to inject those things that are not aproved into cattle because people eat them.

And if horse meat consumption was legalized, then the same restrictions that apply to cattle should also apply to that kind of horsemeat; therefore, stahrgazer's position lacks merit.


But what of different kinds of horse meat? With race horses, they put a lot of shit into them (to use a technical term). All that stuff can be filtered out over time (30-90 days, give or take), so even the problem of having weird stuff in that meat can be resolved.

My position does not lack merit.

Cattle are grown FOR human consumption,and their injections are controlled for that purpose. Horses are grown in the U.S. for other purposes, so their injections are not controlled for human consumption.

If you'd like to argue that a rancher should be able to have a "horses for human consumption" farm, with their injections and other intake being controlled for human consumption, I might agree, although I can see where folks would be concerned that the wrong types of horses - those whose injections were not consumption-controlled - might end up in the horseburgers being sold as "for human consumption."

And apparently you missed the point that in some cases, chemicals cannot be "filtered out" over time, but instead, imbeds in the tissues with a cumulative effect all the way down the chain (look for my mention of DDT, Mercury, and someone else's additon of Lead, if you want to see that post.)

They put lead in horses? (Obviously, that's an empirical matter, and I won't take your word on it).

It's pretty clear that you are failing to differentiate between different kinds of horses: one for human consumption as meat products, and the other for human consumption as racing products. Sure, there's may be quality control problems with converting horse races into meat products.

I've already address the issue of regulating food quality: impose the same standards on cattle for particular kinds of horse meat. It's a simple concept.

[2dimes]

They wanted to make it as simple as they could. Horses are working/racing animals, you can give them what ever shots you want to improve them for that purpose. Lead? Sure why not? It's your horse.

To make sure people don't accedently get fed whatever you're giving your horses, in their meatballs. You can only sell cows for food.

Giant processing plants did not even occur to them, but that just makes it more difficult to track when someone sneaks some horses in there. Regardless of wether they are lead fortified racers or Monsieur Ballin's Fine French eatin horses.

[Maugena]

[stahrgazer]

They put lead in horses? (Obviously, that's an empirical matter, and I won't take your word on it).

It's pretty clear that you are failing to differentiate between different kinds of horses: one for human consumption as meat products, and the other for human consumption as racing products. Sure, there's may be quality control problems with converting horse races into meat products.

I've already address the issue of regulating food quality: impose the same standards on cattle for particular kinds of horse meat. It's a simple concept.

BBS, it's not "cute" when you're intentionally obtuse.

However, in case you're really that obtuse and not being "intentionally obtuse" I'll explain it again. Chemicals are made of compounds, some simple some not as simple. Some compounds do not pass through the system once ingested orally or topically but instead remain in the body, progressively damaging cells. Lead is a compound that has been shown to remain and damage cells; mercury is another.

Sugar is also a compound, but typically will not damage cells unless one is prone to certain disorders (such as diabetes). Protein, a compound found both in horse and cattle as well as other animal (and vegetable, for that matter) life, will also typically not damage cells.

DDT is yet another compound, one that is not usually "intentionally" eaten - just as "lead" is seldom intentionally eaten, and just as "mercury" is seldom eaten just to eat mercury. Yet, DDT has found its way into various parts of food chains in the past, causing damage not just to the initial animal that ate it, but progressively down the line.

Iodine is another chemical compound that in mass quantities can cause the human body distress, and is sometimes found in the food chain (especially from shellfish).

Now, HORSES are typically used for "work purposes" in the United States, and as such, they are frequently injected with things that a human would typically not care to ingest, and some of those things can, like DDT, be additive in the food chain (imbedding in the horse muscle/bonding to the protein so that whatever eats the horse meat is eating some of those potentially toxic substances the horse was injected with.) In the US, horsemeat may be used for dog food but is not typically used for human protein because some careless meatpacker might just put one of those work-injection horses in with the same batch of "food-injection" horses you suggest could be okay. (Allowed for dog food because for the most part, Americans don't eat dogs, either.)

Cattle, on the other hand, are not used as "work animals" in the United States so pretty much any cow will only be injected with things that are not yet proven harmful.

So the taboo against horse meat for human consumption in the US is because sometimes you cannot trust all those in the food industry to be honest and careful about which meat goes where, and the feds decided that the risk of dishonesty or carelessness was too great considering the potential lethality of workhorse injections in humans' food.

To re-clarify: I never said horses were fed lead; for all I know, the injections they're given COULD contain lead, but that wasn't the point. My use of "lead," like "mercury," and like "DDT," was to compare the unknown potentially-lethal chemical compounds a horse could be injected with, to know additive toxins (additive: remain and increase in the body rather than pass 100% out the urine or feces.)

Hope this helps.

[BigBallinStalin]

So the taboo against horse meat for human consumption in the US is because sometimes you cannot trust all those in the food industry to be honest and careful about which meat goes where, and the feds decided that the risk of dishonesty or carelessness was too great considering the potential lethality of workhorse injections in humans' food.

Interesting. Where's the sauce on that?

[stahrgazer]

Interesting. Where's the sauce on that?

Horses Not Raised For Food Receive Medications Banned by FDA and the European Union

The Humane Society of the United States issued a report detailing the food safety risks associated with consuming meat that originates in American horses. Horses in the U.S. are primarily used for companionship or competition, therefore they are not treated in the same way as animals raised for human consumption. Horses are commonly given pharmaceuticals that have been banned for use in food-producing animals by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the European Commission’s Food and Veterinary Office.

http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/04/report_details_horse_meat_consumption_risks_042712.html

View the full white paper:http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/report_food_safety_horse_slaughter.pdf

Oh. And as it turns out, slaughter within the US for dog food was also banned a decade or so ago, as part of a gov't sanctioned "taboo," for similar reasons Americans don't eat dogs (seen as companions, pets).

[BigBallinStalin]

So the taboo against horse meat for human consumption in the US is because sometimes you cannot trust all those in the food industry to be honest and careful about which meat goes where, and the feds decided that the risk of dishonesty or carelessness was too great considering the potential lethality of workhorse injections in humans' food.

Interesting. Where's the sauce on that?

Ah okay!

[smegal69]

[AndyDufresne]

Rat Meat Sold as Lamb Highlights Food Fears in China

...In an announcement intended to show that the government is serious about improving food safety, the Ministry of Public Security said on Thursday that the police had caught a gang of traders in eastern China who bought rat, fox and mink flesh and sold it as mutton. But that and other cases of meat smuggling, faking and adulteration featured in Chinese newspapers and Web sites on Friday were unlikely to instill confidence in consumers already queasy over many reports about meat, fruit and vegetables laden with disease, toxins, banned dyes and preservatives.

Sixty-three people were arrested and are accused of “buying fox, mink and rat and other meat products that had not undergone inspection,” which they doused in gelatin, red pigment, and nitrates, and sold as mutton in Shanghai and adjacent Jiangsu Province for about $1.6 million, according to the ministry’s statement. The account, posted on the Internet, did not explain how exactly the traders acquired the rats and other creatures.

“How many rats does it take to put together a sheep?” said one typically baffled and angry user of Sina Weibo, China’s Twitter-like microblog service that often acts as a forum for public venting. “Is it cheaper to raise rats than sheep?”...

--Andy

[AslanTheKing]

u can eat horsemeat, no problem, its very tasty

yes there could be lead in horsemeat, so you buy it from a butcher u can trust

they inject lead for medical reasons , i dont know why, since its oldfashioned, but they say it helps
some prefer vodka instead of lead, both helps

horsemeat is popular in some european countries, even donkey meat is popular in europe
donkey has no lead

in WW 2 even cats where on the foodchain of humans
some countrys dont mind to eat rats

i prefer a nice rib eye steak, rare

[muy_thaiguy]

Rat Meat Sold as Lamb Highlights Food Fears in China

...In an announcement intended to show that the government is serious about improving food safety, the Ministry of Public Security said on Thursday that the police had caught a gang of traders in eastern China who bought rat, fox and mink flesh and sold it as mutton. But that and other cases of meat smuggling, faking and adulteration featured in Chinese newspapers and Web sites on Friday were unlikely to instill confidence in consumers already queasy over many reports about meat, fruit and vegetables laden with disease, toxins, banned dyes and preservatives.

Sixty-three people were arrested and are accused of “buying fox, mink and rat and other meat products that had not undergone inspection,” which they doused in gelatin, red pigment, and nitrates, and sold as mutton in Shanghai and adjacent Jiangsu Province for about $1.6 million, according to the ministry’s statement. The account, posted on the Internet, did not explain how exactly the traders acquired the rats and other creatures.

“How many rats does it take to put together a sheep?” said one typically baffled and angry user of Sina Weibo, China’s Twitter-like microblog service that often acts as a forum for public venting. “Is it cheaper to raise rats than sheep?”...

--Andy

Yeah, China has some issues when it comes to meeting minimum quality for products. They have exploding refrigerators and rivers that turn all colors of the rainbow. And the government say the water is "OK!" to drink, despite hundreds of bloated, rotting, and possibly poisoned animal carcasses in it.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Can't say that I've ever had rat meat, but I don't imagine it's remotely similar to lamb (or mutton).

-TG

[AslanTheKing]

in fact you can eat everything as u like
it depends where u where brought up,
i am not sure if its true ,but i have been told yapanese dont eat lamb

ask new zealanders about lamb

in asia, and in some latinamerican , or african coutrys they eat things
u wouldnt want to try

but thats our world, because we dont like it, doesnt mean its bad

horsemeat, i ate it, its good

i wouldnt try dog, or cat
some asians love that stuff

[muy_thaiguy]

in fact you can eat everything as u like
it depends where u where brought up,
i am not sure if its true ,but i have been told yapanese dont eat lamb

No clue. Maybe Nobunaga can give us some insight on that.

ask new zealanders about lamb

No kidding.

in asia, and in some latinamerican , or african coutrys they eat things
u wouldnt want to try

That's putting it mildly. For example, in Thailand, they take fertilized duck eggs, and then eat the duckling before it's hatched.

Yeah, not ever going to try that.

but thats our world, because we dont like it, doesnt mean its bad

horsemeat, i ate it, its good

True.

i wouldnt try dog, or cat
some asians love that stuff

Yeah, China and Korea (not sure if it's both, South, or North that do it) are pretty notorious for it. And some rather disturbing images of it.

Though if you ever get the chance, try some American Buffalo/Bison. Basically like beef, but healthier.

Also through in a rare delicacy, Rocky Mountain Oysters. You'd love them!

[Lootifer]

Anyone who doesnt eat lamb is an idiot, one of the best tasting red meats hands down is awesome, carry on.

[AslanTheKing]

Also through in a rare delicacy, Rocky Mountain Oysters. You'd love them!

i love oysters, had no idea there is such a thing like rocky mountain oyster ???

[BigBallinStalin]

Also through in a rare delicacy, Rocky Mountain Oysters. You'd love them!

i love oysters, had no idea there is such a thing like rocky mountain oyster ???

Oh yeah, you'd love 'em fried.