School Uniforms

[thegreekdog]

Ok, speaking from experience I can see that you non-uniform wearing people are missing information due to your third party point of reference. School uniforms do decrease the formation of cliques(barring exclusion of really weird kids) and make for a less self conscious population.
A Holstein cow will accept into it's herd a camel painted black and white; It's science.

I need better evidence than that before I toss out my anecdotal evidence and common sense. To illustrate here's a short play:

Scene: A high school with mandated uniforms.
Bill: A student at the school; tall, athletic, good-looking, plays football
Jim: A student at the school; short, fat, unattractive, chess club
Kathy: A student at the school; tall, athletic, good-looking, loves to part-tay
Jill: A student at the school; short, fat, unattractive, chess club

Bill: Boy Kathy, I like how you look in that uniform.
Kathy: Thanks. I can't wait for the football game tomorrow.
Jill: Hey Bill. Want to go out sometime?
Bill: Ew, you're short, fat, ugly, and in the chess club.
Jill: Yes, but I'm wearing a uniform so you can't judge me by my outward appearance.
Bill: There is more to your outward appearance than the clothes you wear.

Narrator (thegreekdog): THERE IS MORE TO APPEARANCE AND CLIQUES THAN THE FUCKING CLOTHES YOU WEAR!

Jim: Hey Jill, now that you're not going out with Bill, do you want to go out with me and play Dungeons & Dragons?
Jill: Ew, no. You're also short, fat, and ugly and I don't want to play Dungeons & Dragons. Only nerds play Dungeons & Dragons.

Narrator (thegreekdog): GOOD LUCK BEING "POPULAR" WHEN PEOPLE KNOW YOU PLAY DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!

Fin.

Some comments in this thread make me think people didn't go to school. There are so many more characteristics than clothing that affect school popularity. Here are some common examples:

(1) General attractiveness.
(2) Athlete vs. non-athlete.
(3) Grades.
(4) School activities.
(5) Non-school activities.

Having mandatory uniforms is not going to make the ugly guy get the attractive girl or the chess club member get the football player or the D&D guy get to be friends with the kid that smokes cigarettes in the parking lot.

[Funkyterrance]

Ok, speaking from experience I can see that you non-uniform wearing people are missing information due to your third party point of reference. School uniforms do decrease the formation of cliques(barring exclusion of really weird kids) and make for a less self conscious population.
A Holstein cow will accept into it's herd a camel painted black and white; It's science.

I need better evidence than that before I toss out my anecdotal evidence and common sense. To illustrate here's a short play:

Scene: A high school with mandated uniforms.
Bill: A student at the school; tall, athletic, good-looking, plays football
Jim: A student at the school; short, fat, unattractive, chess club
Kathy: A student at the school; tall, athletic, good-looking, loves to part-tay
Jill: A student at the school; short, fat, unattractive, chess club

Bill: Boy Kathy, I like how you look in that uniform.
Kathy: Thanks. I can't wait for the football game tomorrow.
Jill: Hey Bill. Want to go out sometime?
Bill: Ew, you're short, fat, ugly, and in the chess club.
Jill: Yes, but I'm wearing a uniform so you can't judge me by my outward appearance.
Bill: There is more to your outward appearance than the clothes you wear.

Narrator (thegreekdog): THERE IS MORE TO APPEARANCE AND CLIQUES THAN THE FUCKING CLOTHES YOU WEAR!

Jim: Hey Jill, now that you're not going out with Bill, do you want to go out with me and play Dungeons & Dragons?
Jill: Ew, no. You're also short, fat, and ugly and I don't want to play Dungeons & Dragons. Only nerds play Dungeons & Dragons.

Narrator (thegreekdog): GOOD LUCK BEING "POPULAR" WHEN PEOPLE KNOW YOU PLAY DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!

Fin.

Some comments in this thread make me think people didn't go to school. There are so many more characteristics than clothing that affect school popularity. Here are some common examples:

(1) General attractiveness.
(2) Athlete vs. non-athlete.
(3) Grades.
(4) School activities.
(5) Non-school activities.

Having mandatory uniforms is not going to make the ugly guy get the attractive girl or the chess club member get the football player or the D&D guy get to be friends with the kid that smokes cigarettes in the parking lot.

Of course it's not going to solve all the problems of peer alienation or whatever but I know from first hand experience having been on both sides that uniforms diminishes the effect and lack of uniforms enhances it. However contrary to Harry Potter movies this may appear, you sort of need to experience it to have any definitive idea.

[thegreekdog]

I didn't experience it, but my brother and sister experienced it (both public school and private school with uniforms). So I experienced it secondhand through them and they experienced it firsthand. Based on that anecdotal evidence (and common sense, as evidenced by the short play above), mandatory uniforms have a negligible effect. And the only reason I would care if there is a negligible effect is because there is also a cost associated with uniforms, so we must weigh the effect against the cost. If the effect is negligible and the cost is more than negligible, then school uniforms should not be mandated. Unfortunately, too many people think the effect of school uniforms is more than negligible without anything but anecdotal evidence.

[Symmetry]

I didn't experience it, but my brother and sister experienced it (both public school and private school with uniforms). So I experienced it secondhand through them and they experienced it firsthand. Based on that anecdotal evidence (and common sense, as evidenced by the short play above), mandatory uniforms have a negligible effect. And the only reason I would care if there is a negligible effect is because there is also a cost associated with uniforms, so we must weigh the effect against the cost. If the effect is negligible and the cost is more than negligible, then school uniforms should not be mandated. Unfortunately, too many people think the effect of school uniforms is more than negligible without anything but anecdotal evidence.

A couple of shirts, a couple of pairs of dark trousers. That's going to come in at less than you might think. A blazer is going to cost, but my school had discounts for new and a hand me down service.