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Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Cur. Same Sex Marriage]

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:06 am

Supreme Court Strikes Down Defense of Marriage Act

‘DOMA’s principal effect is to identify and make unequal a subset of state-sanctioned marriages.’ — JUSTICE ANTHONY M. KENNEDY

NY Times Reporting:

show: DOMA

Supreme Court Opinion


Justices Hold That California Opponents of Same-Sex Marriage Do Not Have Standing to Sue

SCOTUS Blog Reporting:

show: Prop 8

Supreme Court Opinion

Usual suspects, please line up and tell us what it means: TGD, Metsfanmax, BBS, Haggis, Woodruff, PS, Lootifer, NS, et al.



=============

Key Part of Voting Rights Act Invalidated

NY Times Reporting:

The Supreme Court struck down a central portion of the Voting Rights Act on Tuesday, effectively ending the practice in which some states with a history of racial discrimination must receive clearance from the federal government before changing voting laws.

The vote was 5 to 4, with the five conservative-leaning justices in the majority and the four liberal-leaning justices in the minority. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote the decision.

The majority held that Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act, originally passed in 1965 and since updated by Congress, was unconstitutional. The section includes a formula that determines which states must receive pre-approval.

The court did not strike down Section 5, which allows the federal government to require pre-approval. But without Section 4, which determines which states would need to receive clearance, Section 5 is largely without significance — unless Congress chooses to pass a new bill for determining which states would be covered.

Given the current partisan nature of Congress, reaching agreement on a new formula may be difficult.

“Section 5 of the act required states to obtain federal permission before enacting any law related to voting — a drastic departure from basic principles of federalism,” Chief Justice Roberts wrote in the decision. “And Section 4 of the act applied that requirement only to some states — an equally dramatic departure from the principle that all states enjoy equal sovereignty.”

“There is no denying, however, that the conditions that originally justified these measures no longer characterize voting in the covered jurisdictions,” he added.

The Voting Rights Act of 1965 was one of the towering legislative achievements of the civil rights movement. Its central provision, Section 5, requires many state and local governments, mostly in the South, to obtain permission from the Justice Department or a federal court in Washington before making changes in laws that affect voting.

That means jurisdictions covered by Section 5 must get federal approval before they make minor changes to voting procedures, like relocating a polling place, or major ones, like redrawing electoral districts.

The Supreme Court had repeatedly upheld the law, saying that Section 5’s “preclearance requirement” was an effective tool to combat the legacy of lawless conduct by Southern officials bent on denying voting rights to blacks.

Critics of Section 5 say it is a unique federal intrusion on state sovereignty and a badge of shame for the affected jurisdictions that is no longer justified. They point to high voter registration rates among blacks and the re-election of a black president as proof that the provision is no longer needed.

Civil rights leaders, on the other hand, say the law played an important role in the 2012 election, with courts relying on it to block voter identification requirements and cutbacks on early voting.

Section 5 was originally set to expire in five years. Congress repeatedly extended it: for five years in 1970, seven years in 1975, and 25 years in 1982. Congress renewed the act in 2006 after holding extensive hearings on the persistence of racial discrimination at the polls, again extending the preclearance requirement for 25 years.

In 2012, a divided three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia rejected a challenge to the law filed by Shelby County, Ala. Judge David S. Tatel, writing for the majority, acknowledged that “the extraordinary federalism costs imposed by Section 5 raise substantial constitutional concerns,” and he added that the record compiled by Congress to justify the law’s renewal was “by no means unambiguous.”

“But Congress drew reasonable conclusions from the extensive evidence it gathered,” he went on. The constitutional amendments ratified after the Civil War, he said, “entrust Congress with ensuring that the right to vote — surely among the most important guarantees of political liberty in the Constitution — is not abridged on account of race. In this context, we owe much deference to the considered judgment of the people’s elected representatives.”

The dissenting member of the panel, Judge Stephen F. Williams, surveyed recent evidence concerning registration and turnout, the election of black officials, the use of federal election observers and suits under another part of the law.

Some of that evidence, he said, “suggests that the coverage formula completely lacks any rational connection to current levels of voter discrimination,” while other evidence indicates that the formula, “though not completely perverse, is a remarkably bad fit with Congress’s concerns.”

“Given the drastic remedy imposed on covered jurisdictions by Section 5,” he wrote, “I do not believe that such equivocal evidence can sustain the scheme.”

The Supreme Court had once before considered the constitutionality of the 2006 extension of the law in a 2009 decision, Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District Number One v. Holder. But it avoided answering the central question, and it seemed to give Congress an opportunity to make adjustments. Congress did not respond.


=================


Justices Block Law Requiring Voters to Prove Citizenship

NY Times Reporting:

show


SCOTUS Blog reporting:

show


Full (.pdf) Supreme Court Decision

Usual suspects, please line up and tell us what it means: TGD, Metsfanmax, BBS, Haggis, Woodruff, PS, Lootifer, NS, et al.


==========

Supreme Court Rules Human Genes May Not Be Patented

NY Times reporting:

show


SCOTUS Blog reporting:
show


Full (.pdf) Supreme Court Opinion
[/size]

=======================

"Justices Allow Police to Take D.N.A. Samples After Arrests"

NY Times reporting:

show


BBS, Haggis, TGD, PS, Metsfanmax, et al, I am looking at you all to come in tell us what we should think about this.



--Andy
Last edited by AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:43 am, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:34 pm

I'll leave TGD to comment on the legal precedent, but from a functional perspective, I consider it of highest importance that we take DNA samples liberally. DNA evidence can be used to determine guilt or innocence in a much more rigorous manner than the standard techniques used in jury trials. The false conviction rate would be substantially decreased if we could use DNA evidence to exonerate people. It would also ensure that people don't walk when they committed the real crime.

This doesn't mean we need to create a national DNA database, although I concede that maybe that's where it would end up at some point down the line. But being allowed to take DNA samples is the obvious conclusion, if we really care about getting it right when it comes to guilt or innocence at a trial. If you oppose this, then you are essentially saying that you prefer avoidance of some nebulous government power to catching real criminals and exonerating the innocent.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:37 pm

I got nothing. Need to read the decision.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Roussallier on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:49 pm

This is exactly what a DNA/fingerprint/criminal database is for. Police run the license plate of any vehicle stopped for traffic violations, why not run DNA of arrested persons?
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:42 pm

What exactly is a "serious offense"?
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:16 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:What exactly is a "serious offense"?


According to SCOTUS Blog (the go to resource about Supreme Court Rulings):

Emphasis, mine wrote:Facts of the Case
The Maryland DNA Collection Act (MDCA) allows state and local law enforcement officers to collect DNA samples from individuals who are arrested for a crime of violence, an attempted crime of violence, burglary, or attempted burglary. Alonzo Jay King, Jr. was arrested on first and second degree assault charges. While under arrest, but prior to conviction, King's DNA was collected and logged in Maryland's DNA database. That database matched King's DNA to a DNA sample from an unsolved rape case. This sample was the only evidence linking King to the rape. The trial judge denied King's motion to suppress the DNA evidence and he was convicted of first-degree rape and sentenced to life in prison.

King appealed the conviction, arguing that the MDCA was an unconstitutional infringement of his Fourth Amendment privilege against warrantless searches. The Court of Appeals of Maryland reversed, holding that the MDCA was unconstitutional. The court held that King's expectation of privacy was greater than Maryland's interest in using the DNA for identification purposes.

Question
Does the Fourth Amendment allow states to collect and analyze DNA from people arrested, but not convicted, of serious crimes?



--Andy
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:43 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:"Justices Allow Police to Take D.N.A. Samples After Arrests"


This seems like a good thing to me. The ability to legitimately tie suspects to other crimes is very important.

I suppose the only thing I MIGHT change is to make it happen once someone is convicted, rather than
just as a suspect. That would avoid any Fourth or Fifth Amendment issues (which are legitimate arguments).

As to the ability to prove innocent, it seems to me that this would be a routine thing to be accomplished
by any defense attorney, so I don't see an issue there.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:00 pm

I still haven't read the decision, but if precedent suggests that taking someone's mug shot or fingerprints can be used at the time of arrest for other crimes, then this is probably a good decision (from a precedential perspective).
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:19 pm

thegreekdog wrote:I still haven't read the decision, but if precedent suggests that taking someone's mug shot or fingerprints can be used at the time of arrest for other crimes, then this is probably a good decision (from a precedential perspective).


Good point about the fingerprints, in particular. I'd still like it better if it were after conviction, rather than after arrest.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby ooge on Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:39 pm

When Roberts and Alito were added to the bench it was stated at the time that they both had a long history of ruling in favor of the "state" over the individual.This decision falls in line with their past rulings.Interesting though to see Scalia in the decent,I so pose this falls in line with his past rulings on the gun issue.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:47 am

Metsfanmax wrote:DNA is awesome and we should collect it whenever we get a chance, analysing DNA is better than anything else for determining guilt or innocence!*

http://www.crimemagazine.com/phantom-hielbronn


*paraphrased
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:36 am

Does TGD deal with criminal law?
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:34 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:DNA is awesome and we should collect it whenever we get a chance, analysing DNA is better than anything else for determining guilt or innocence!*

http://www.crimemagazine.com/phantom-hielbronn


*paraphrased



Good story.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:25 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:DNA is awesome and we should collect it whenever we get a chance, analysing DNA is better than anything else for determining guilt or innocence!*

http://www.crimemagazine.com/phantom-hielbronn


*paraphrased


Do you think that this story proves that DNA is not better than anything else for determining guilt or innocence?
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby / on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:30 pm

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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Lootifer on Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:46 pm

The phantom story not withstanding I tend to support this decision.

Firstly the precedent has been set by fingerprints (in fact as the phantom story points out you can retrieve DNA from fingerprints anyway...).

Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:33 pm

Lootifer wrote:The phantom story not withstanding I tend to support this decision.

Firstly the precedent has been set by fingerprints (in fact as the phantom story points out you can retrieve DNA from fingerprints anyway...).

Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.


I'm not sure. Assuming that...
the police will always scan for DNA for any violent crime,
the DNA sample is clean enough,
the criminal does not take enough precautions to prevent discovery of his DNA,
the criminal actually cares about being caught/taking precautions,
the criminal is not mentally/physically capable of planning to not leave any DNA trace,
then sure.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 pm

Lootifer wrote:Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.

Some say the death penalty deters people from committing crimes, too. So far there's nothing but speculation to support their claim, and plenty of numbers and studies to disprove it.

So what's your stance on the police collecting DNA from a large number of people who fit a profile or description in order to compare it to a sample from a crime scene? Say a crime has been committed, DNA has been found, and someone saw the lawbreaker. The description is "male, average height and weight, between 20 and 60 years old, probably lives in the area".
I'm not exaggerating there, German police have used exactly such descriptions and called for thousands of people to submit their DNA for analysis. Sure, you're technically free to ignore them or refuse, but relatively few know that and exercising your rights in such cases has been considered a cause for further investigations.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:11 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.

Some say the death penalty deters people from committing crimes, too. So far there's nothing but speculation to support their claim, and plenty of numbers and studies to disprove it.

So what's your stance on the police collecting DNA from a large number of people who fit a profile or description in order to compare it to a sample from a crime scene? Say a crime has been committed, DNA has been found, and someone saw the lawbreaker. The description is "male, average height and weight, between 20 and 60 years old, probably lives in the area".
I'm not exaggerating there, German police have used exactly such descriptions and called for thousands of people to submit their DNA for analysis. Sure, you're technically free to ignore them or refuse, but relatively few know that and exercising your rights in such cases has been considered a cause for further investigations.


Indeed. After all, if you unwilling to do this, you must have something to hide!
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:21 pm

Woodruff wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.

Some say the death penalty deters people from committing crimes, too. So far there's nothing but speculation to support their claim, and plenty of numbers and studies to disprove it.

So what's your stance on the police collecting DNA from a large number of people who fit a profile or description in order to compare it to a sample from a crime scene? Say a crime has been committed, DNA has been found, and someone saw the lawbreaker. The description is "male, average height and weight, between 20 and 60 years old, probably lives in the area".
I'm not exaggerating there, German police have used exactly such descriptions and called for thousands of people to submit their DNA for analysis. Sure, you're technically free to ignore them or refuse, but relatively few know that and exercising your rights in such cases has been considered a cause for further investigations.


Indeed. After all, if you unwilling to do this, you must have something to hide!


He's probably a non-DNA based life form. Some alien, like the ones that built the pyramids and atlantis and starbucks.


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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:36 pm

Symmetry wrote:Does TGD deal with criminal law?


No.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:52 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:"Justices Allow Police to Take D.N.A. Samples After Arrests"

NY Times reporting:

show


BBS, Haggis, TGD, PS, Metsfanmax, et al, I am looking at you all to come in tell us what we should think about this.


--Andy


I don't see a problem, given that it is in fact after you have been arrested and charged with a crime, and is basically the same kind of thing as a fingerprint.

I don't think it will be very effective though. Might crack a few cases here and there and that is good, but from what I understand most DNA samples never actually get tested, as that would cost a fortune. I would assume law enforcement would go this route especially when they have a serial rapist or killer ie high suspicion of other crimes/descriptions. I think it was locally here that a rape victim from 30 years ago found out just last week they had the evidence all along to lock her rapist up, but there was a 30 year backlog that the department could not even begin to deal with. Turns out the guy was already in prison for life, because he raped more people after this woman and eventually law enforcement got around to catching him. I don't know if it's a specific case of the city being broke or something, but I do know testing DNA still costs a lot of money.

I would bet the end result of this is a giant DNA database, to be accessed at a later date and a much cheaper price with a totally different agenda. DNA will probably be a gold mine in the future. Idk about yours, but my state has been collecting DNA samples of every baby born here for the last couple years.

But I'm more interested in the way the vote went. Very surprised on both sides I always love to ponder the dynamics of the supreme court. Cool thread
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Lootifer on Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:20 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.

Some say the death penalty deters people from committing crimes, too. So far there's nothing but speculation to support their claim, and plenty of numbers and studies to disprove it.

Not quite. The death penalty is a punishment, collection of DNA is a increase in the liklihood of being caught. I agree that punishments are not very good at deterring crimes, but i speculate that increasing chances of being caught will have some noticable impact (only on crimes where there is a fair proportion of criminals genuinely believing they will face no punishment at all).

So what's your stance on the police collecting DNA from a large number of people who fit a profile or description in order to compare it to a sample from a crime scene? Say a crime has been committed, DNA has been found, and someone saw the lawbreaker. The description is "male, average height and weight, between 20 and 60 years old, probably lives in the area".
I'm not exaggerating there, German police have used exactly such descriptions and called for thousands of people to submit their DNA for analysis. Sure, you're technically free to ignore them or refuse, but relatively few know that and exercising your rights in such cases has been considered a cause for further investigations.

Thats slightly different. But my personal opinion on the matter is that you suffer no loss of freedom through having your DNA recorded.

Yes the use of that DNA can impact your freedom or otherwise impact your existence; but the storage in itself is not a loss of privacy (they swab, they store).

Its the use that determines how your privacy/freedom is affected: Simple comparison with crime scene DNA sample? I have no problem - and I dont see why anyone would, unless you have something to hide; analysis of your DNA to determine if you are "cerial killer type" and thus instigate secret surveillance of you to make sure you dont go postal? I have a huge problem with this and is clearly a breach of your privacy.

I can, and do, happily support one but not the other.
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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:57 pm

If it's cost effective and could substantially effect the accuracy of the justice system, then I support the collecting of the DNA. I think, as usual, I'm leaning with Mets on this one.

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Re: Various U.S. Supreme Court Rulings [Currently DNA]

Postby Night Strike on Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:39 am

Lootifer wrote:Secondly if you can have your DNA collected fairly easily, its a pretty good deterrant of committing any violent crime where you are very likely to leave DNA lying around.


DNA can be left at a site prior to a crime being committed.
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