The 4th Amendment: Unreasonable Search and Seizure

[Phatscotty]

Forget Democrats and Republicans. It's clear by now they don't care and only say they do to get elected. Do your own OBJECTIVE research and get involved. Be conscious there are those who do everything in their power to keep us divided as our privacy is constantly diminished, and know that we are unstoppable when we are united.

This is the nuts and bolts of Freedom. Party or politics has NOTHING to do with it!

[Symmetry]

Forget the post above this one. How excellent is this video?

[Woodruff]

Forget Democrats and Republicans. It's clear by now they don't care and only say they do to get elected.

Gosh, who could have told you that...perhaps PRIOR to this past election?

Gosh, I just can't remember...

[Phatscotty]

[Woodruff]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

Ok, so I like that he's doing this. It needs to be done. But still...this stuff has been getting briefed to Congress, so he was clearly already aware of it (or certainly should have been). So that makes this feel a lot like grandstanding for the Presidential run, rather than actual concern about it.

[Night Strike]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

Ok, so I like that he's doing this. It needs to be done. But still...this stuff has been getting briefed to Congress, so he was clearly already aware of it (or certainly should have been). So that makes this feel a lot like grandstanding for the Presidential run, rather than actual concern about it.

Not all of Congress was informed. Only the leadership and the intelligence committees. The vast majority of members had no idea, just like the rest of us.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/republicans-nsa-surveillance-92418.html

[ooge]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

Ok, so I like that he's doing this. It needs to be done. But still...this stuff has been getting briefed to Congress, so he was clearly already aware of it (or certainly should have been). So that makes this feel a lot like grandstanding for the Presidential run, rather than actual concern about it.

Not all of Congress was informed. Only the leadership and the intelligence committees. The vast majority of members had no idea, just like the rest of us.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/republicans-nsa-surveillance-92418.html

he was not aware? ridiculous. I was aware back in 2007.

[Phatscotty]

Not to mention people usually miss one crucial thing, and it bugs the hell out of me. People aren't ready to collectively deal with something for long periods of time. People can and believe me many people have yelled from the roof tops about this issue, but not enough people care for a myriad of reasons. Many go on and on about how there is no exact evidence, many say "the government wouldn't do that", many dismiss it and blame the other side that did it in the past (which is basically doing absolutely nothing). Like others have said "where were you over the last 10 years?" The answer will always be right here, waiting for everyone else.

now is the time on this issue to stop playing games and unite.

[ooge]

Not to mention people usually miss one crucial thing, and it bugs the hell out of me. People aren't ready to collectively deal with something for long periods of time. Many go on and on about how there is no exact evidence, many say "the government wouldn't do that", many dismiss it and blame the other side that did it in the past (which is basically doing absolutely nothing). Like others have said "where were you over the last 10 years?" The answer will always be right here, waiting for everyone else.

now is the time on this issue. Time to stop playing games and unite.

the republicans support this Boehner, as does The democrats Reid. No party wants to be the ones that take a supposed terrorist fighting tool and then have a terrorist attack occur...You know like Benghazi has been politicized.You guys made this bead,now you have to sleep in it.

[Phatscotty]

Not to mention people usually miss one crucial thing, and it bugs the hell out of me. People aren't ready to collectively deal with something for long periods of time. Many go on and on about how there is no exact evidence, many say "the government wouldn't do that", many dismiss it and blame the other side that did it in the past (which is basically doing absolutely nothing). Like others have said "where were you over the last 10 years?" The answer will always be right here, waiting for everyone else.

now is the time on this issue. Time to stop playing games and unite.

the republicans support this Boehner, as does The democrats Reid. No party wants to be the ones that take a supposed terrorist fighting tool and then have a terrorist attack occur...You know like Benghazi has been politicized.You guys made this bead,now you have to sleep in it.

Okay, so unite the clans! Leave Boehner to us. Lindsey Graham too. John McCain too. They will be held accountable very soon. Democrats can't beat them, but we can. Perhaps you could start holding Democrats accountable as well.

[pimpdave]

Somehow I get the feeling that the Founding Fathers, who actually believed that their health was governed by four "humours", ever envisioned a world with nukes.

There are Muslim radical terrorists that would love to detonate one here. I'm confident my fellow Americans in the NSA are working tirelessly to prevent that nightmare. I honestly don't give a shit if they know I drunk dialed my girlfriend last week if it helps make it easier to catch the actual bad guys. Our enemies in this war we're at.

I'm far more concerned with these Tea Party groups making tax shelters for secret money, or the banks escaping prosecution. That will bring us down, not the NSA stopping terrorists.

[Woodruff]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/09/paul-wants-to-lead-supreme-court-challenge-to-fed-tracking-americans-calls/

Ok, so I like that he's doing this. It needs to be done. But still...this stuff has been getting briefed to Congress, so he was clearly already aware of it (or certainly should have been). So that makes this feel a lot like grandstanding for the Presidential run, rather than actual concern about it.

Not all of Congress was informed. Only the leadership and the intelligence committees. The vast majority of members had no idea, just like the rest of us.

EDIT: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/republicans-nsa-surveillance-92418.html

This has been known to the common people since at least 2006, so I have difficulty understanding how someone who is charged with making the laws for our country couldn't be aware of it. I mean, seriously...this isn't breaking news, and it shouldn't be startling.

[Woodruff]

now is the time on this issue to stop playing games and unite.

Frankly, I get the feeling that your only interest in "uniting" is if the "unity" is what you want it to be. You're one of the biggest dividers in these fora.

[warmonger1981]

What pimpdave is basically saying is " I will give up my rights to privacy for more security ". Sounds like a person who voted out of fear and settled for hope. Are you implying that it is better to have civilian casualties from drone strikes in the name of terror? Or the government has funding al-quaeda. The same terrorist we say we fight are the rebels we are supporting in Syria. This government is playing all angles.

[Woodruff]

There are Muslim radical terrorists that would love to detonate one here. I'm confident my fellow Americans in the NSA are working tirelessly to prevent that nightmare. I honestly don't give a shit if they know I drunk dialed my girlfriend last week if it helps make it easier to catch the actual bad guys. Our enemies in this war we're at.

I know you're not capable of being serious, but we are literally our own worst enemy.

[warmonger1981]

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

Frederick Douglass

[ooge]

Not to mention people usually miss one crucial thing, and it bugs the hell out of me. People aren't ready to collectively deal with something for long periods of time. Many go on and on about how there is no exact evidence, many say "the government wouldn't do that", many dismiss it and blame the other side that did it in the past (which is basically doing absolutely nothing). Like others have said "where were you over the last 10 years?" The answer will always be right here, waiting for everyone else.

now is the time on this issue. Time to stop playing games and unite.

the republicans support this Boehner, as does The democrats Reid. No party wants to be the ones that take a supposed terrorist fighting tool and then have a terrorist attack occur...You know like Benghazi has been politicized.You guys made this bead,now you have to sleep in it.

Okay, so unite the clans! Leave Boehner to us. Lindsey Graham too. John McCain too. They will be held accountable very soon. Democrats can't beat them, but we can. Perhaps you could start holding Democrats accountable as well.

I am going of off memory,but at this point you would have to change the law and I believe 72 senators voted for this.The other option is to go through the judicial system and hope that it reaches the supreme court.But I believe there already has been lawsuits and they have been thrown out with the excuse of "this lawsuit will reveal national security secrets" So whats left,whistle blowers and the media. Also I believe these tactics have been used in the past against organized crime and those convictions were not thrown because of violation of 4th amendment rights.This leads me back to my original belief presidents in the past were not held accountable(impeachment,prison) resulting in emboldening future Presidents with their ever expanding powers.

[thegreekdog]

So... what is the probably unstated reason for the various alleged 4th amendment violations? Is there any rent-seeking going on here?

[AAFitz]

Forget Democrats and Republicans. It's clear by now they don't care and only say they do to get elected. Do your own OBJECTIVE research and get involved. Be conscious there are those who do everything in their power to keep us divided as our privacy is constantly diminished, and know that we are unstoppable when we are united.

This is the nuts and bolts of Freedom. Party or politics has NOTHING to do with it!

Well, being objective and getting involved...this is a pretty plaque and pretty big font, but basically its pointless outside of context.

If the government has broken into your house and found your stash of womens underwear, well, I agree, that is unfounded if they did not have a warrant.

However, if this is instead, about the monitoring of radiowaves in the upper atmosphere and space...well... Im not entirely sure the constitution protected that. For one thing, I am almost positive there is no agent listening to my conversations. There is absolutely no way there is anyone that could get paid enough to listen to those ramblings. You think my writing rambles...OMG...you havent seen nuttin yet. So, Im not too concerned.

Now, in the earlier days of cell phones, perhaps it wasnt as obvious as such things could be hacked, but these days, everyone can hack them to some degree, anyone with the equiptment can, so kind of like yelling your personal information out in a Walmart, or conferring with your partners in crime what womens underwear store you are going to burgle next....youre kind of just an idiot for using an electronic device to communicate anything, you dont want others to know.

I dont really think searching the airwaves is as invasive as I suspect you are trying to propose it is.

If as I said I am wrong about this and instead, they have set up illegal surveilience in your home, well, I agree whole heartedly, though to be honest PS, its possible, a judge somewhere, some time, actually would give them probable cause, based on some of the stuff youve posted in here....which, by the way, is totally public.

[Woodruff]

So... what is the probably unstated reason for the various alleged 4th amendment violations? Is there any rent-seeking going on here?

My guess would be law enforcement (of every level and variety). Same as with the War on Drugs.

[Phatscotty]

I'm aware the forum is public AA. Thanks so much!

Just trying to hold onto as much privacy as possible. You have the option to be part of the problem, or part of the solution. And how is it that you know they aren't listening to our phone calls? Are you sure? Are these really the most trusthworthy bunch?

The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance, not eternal meh

[Woodruff]

I'm aware the forum is public AA.

Then maybe you can stop whining about people commenting on your posts in this public forum.

The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance, not eternal meh

Which is precisely why I voice disagreement with so many of your positions.

[AAFitz]

I'm aware the forum is public AA. Thanks so much!

Just trying to hold onto as much privacy as possible. You have the option to be part of the problem, or part of the solution. And how is it that you know they aren't listening to our phone calls? Are you sure? Are these really the most trusthworthy bunch?

The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance, not eternal meh

Actually, if you read that correctly, I fully accept that they can listen to my phone calls, but that they arent, because they are boring as shit. Much as I dont expect privacy if I am having a conversation at applebees at the bar, I dont expect privacy on what is essentially a fancy walky talky that shoots radio waves into space.

If you do expect privacy, and didn't realize they were taping your calls, youre an idiot, because they have been doing it since at least 9/11. But again, unless you are discussing something illegal, or more specifically terroristy, the computer will not alert an agent to actually listen to your possible fetish of wearing women's underwear. While its fully possible they may enjoy that, and you should know they maybe doing it, you use the phone without that understanding, or again, you're an idiot.

As far as breaking some constitutional right, it doesnt, and again only an idiot thinks it does.

[Orwell]

Forget Democrats and Republicans. It's clear by now they don't care and only say they do to get elected. Do your own OBJECTIVE research and get involved. Be conscious there are those who do everything in their power to keep us divided as our privacy is constantly diminished, and know that we are unstoppable when we are united.

This is the nuts and bolts of Freedom. Party or politics has NOTHING to do with it!

You and I agree again. The 4th Amendment is not a partisan issue - it is the backbone of our society.

But I have to ask: did my post yesterday prompt this one?

[Phatscotty]

Forget Democrats and Republicans. It's clear by now they don't care and only say they do to get elected. Do your own OBJECTIVE research and get involved. Be conscious there are those who do everything in their power to keep us divided as our privacy is constantly diminished, and know that we are unstoppable when we are united.

This is the nuts and bolts of Freedom. Party or politics has NOTHING to do with it!

You and I agree again. The 4th Amendment is not a partisan issue - it is the backbone of our society.

But I have to ask: did my post yesterday prompt this one?

No I made this one first. Thanks for participating