CC Morality Question

[DoomYoshi]

I should preface this question with the full disclosure that it isn't hypothetical. These are real women's lives we are talking about.

I live in a sex tourist destination. There is one club (a massage parlor) in town which has cheaper prices than everywhere else in town (50% - 75% cheaper than all competitors). I won't post a link due to pornographic images. All the girls are Russian or Ukrainian. So it starts as a simple Russian mob case. The girls are forced prostitutes working for the Russian mob. So, Detective DoomYoshi starts digging deeper.

Unfortunately, the story isn't as simple as that. Most of these girls never went to school. They all have breast implants. They have been doing this so long, they don't even realize that there is much wrong with it, or that they are slaves. They are, as far as I can tell, totally brainwashed and have been since before they were in Canada. This is probably why the business is so easy to monitor.

The moral question is: if the women are too far gone, should I still bother to save them? This isn't a simple case of "tell the cops" as nobody in Canada has ever been prosecuted for Human Trafficking (it was only recently declared illegal) I will need to get some form of hard evidence which will involve me upgrading the rather shitty camera I have and some more sneaky tactics.

What do you think? Should I let the Russian mob have this one?

I should also note that I have spoken to some local pastors about bringing the press on this with some kind of rally. If people realized this was a mob operation, they might be less willing to go there. However, I have had difficulty in selling this idea.

[AndyDufresne]

Whatever you do, be careful.


--Andy

[Woodruff]

I should preface this question with the full disclosure that it isn't hypothetical. These are real women's lives we are talking about.

I live in a sex tourist destination. There is one club (a massage parlor) in town which has cheaper prices than everywhere else in town (50% - 75% cheaper than all competitors). I won't post a link due to pornographic images. All the girls are Russian or Ukrainian. So it starts as a simple Russian mob case. The girls are forced prostitutes working for the Russian mob. So, Detective DoomYoshi starts digging deeper.

Unfortunately, the story isn't as simple as that. Most of these girls never went to school. They all have breast implants. They have been doing this so long, they don't even realize that there is much wrong with it, or that they are slaves. They are, as far as I can tell, totally brainwashed and have been since before they were in Canada. This is probably why the business is so easy to monitor.

The moral question is: if the women are too far gone, should I still bother to save them? This isn't a simple case of "tell the cops" as nobody in Canada has ever been prosecuted for Human Trafficking (it was only recently declared illegal) I will need to get some form of hard evidence which will involve me upgrading the rather shitty camera I have and some more sneaky tactics.

What do you think? Should I let the Russian mob have this one?

I should also note that I have spoken to some local pastors about bringing the press on this with some kind of rally. If people realized this was a mob operation, they might be less willing to go there. However, I have had difficulty in selling this idea.

Messing with the Russian mafia would be...problematical, to say the least.

As for the moral question...it seems to me that if the conditions are as you say they are (or even simply because you believe them to be that way), that further action on your part IS "the right thing to do". The women will probably not be happy with you for doing it...much like the alcoholic is not happy about interference in their life. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't be eventually.

[Army of GOD]

pm me links plox

[nietzsche]

If you don't want me contacting the Russian mob, you will have to give me 1,000 dls (real dollars, not Canadian).

[Funkyterrance]

If you are really going to pursue this, ffs don't let anyone know who you are. In other words, remain anonymous as much as humanly possible. I've met a couple Russian criminal types and they are fking crazy.
As far as the moral question, I dunno. If these girls are really born into this lifestyle they may not be able to be "rehabilitated", thanks to the evil fks who enslaved them in the first place.

For what it's worth I think your efforts are admirable all the same.

[/]

C'mon Doom, you know we've been training for this for a long time, I'll get the rope, you incite the bandwagon.

Seriously though, if you need support there are organizations that can help, they have the experience and can hopefully find the appropriate legal, political, and/or media channels to bring the matter to a close.

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.c ... -hotlines/
http://www.humantraffickingsearch.net/index.html
http://www.polarisproject.org/resources ... ernational

I'm sorry to say that from what you say, it sounds like the police will be a long shot, they might be on the take themselves.
I definitely wouldn't say it's your responsibility to undertake any action that would endanger yourself in any way.

[DoomYoshi]

C'mon Doom, you know we've been training for this for a long time, I'll get the rope, you incite the bandwagon.

Seriously though, if you need support there are organizations that can help, they have the experience and can hopefully find the appropriate legal, political, and/or media channels to bring the matter to a close.

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.c ... -hotlines/
http://www.humantraffickingsearch.net/index.html
http://www.polarisproject.org/resources ... ernational

I'm sorry to say that from what you say, it sounds like the police will be a long shot, they might be on the take themselves.
I definitely wouldn't say it's your responsibility to undertake any action that would endanger yourself in any way.

Thanks for those links.

One quote I loved was:

During the two years that Canada identified 31 trafficking victims, the United States found 17,000.

Clearly, there is no human trafficking in Canada and I don't need to worry based on those numbers

[PLAYER57832]

I should preface this question with the full disclosure that it isn't hypothetical. These are real women's lives we are talking about.

I live in a sex tourist destination. There is one club (a massage parlor) in town which has cheaper prices than everywhere else in town (50% - 75% cheaper than all competitors). I won't post a link due to pornographic images. All the girls are Russian or Ukrainian. So it starts as a simple Russian mob case. The girls are forced prostitutes working for the Russian mob. So, Detective DoomYoshi starts digging deeper.

Unfortunately, the story isn't as simple as that. Most of these girls never went to school. They all have breast implants. They have been doing this so long, they don't even realize that there is much wrong with it, or that they are slaves. They are, as far as I can tell, totally brainwashed and have been since before they were in Canada. This is probably why the business is so easy to monitor.

The moral question is: if the women are too far gone, should I still bother to save them? This isn't a simple case of "tell the cops" as nobody in Canada has ever been prosecuted for Human Trafficking (it was only recently declared illegal) I will need to get some form of hard evidence which will involve me upgrading the rather shitty camera I have and some more sneaky tactics.

What do you think? Should I let the Russian mob have this one?

I should also note that I have spoken to some local pastors about bringing the press on this with some kind of rally. If people realized this was a mob operation, they might be less willing to go there. However, I have had difficulty in selling this idea.

You definitely need assistance on this one. I applaud your good intentions, thoughts, but getting yourself into trouble won't help anyone. First rule of any rescuer is to protect yourself first.. because if you are gone, who will help?

Anyway, there are organizations dedicated to freeing slaves. I am not googling it just because I think you or almost anyone else would be better at it. Also, I am not feeling well and need to head down for the night. Also, in this case you DO NOT just want to go off what you find in google, you definitely have to verify. EDIT -- just saw the links posted above. They are good places to start, but as several here have said, even once you are really sure you are contacting the correct group, be VERY careful how you do it. Don't submit stuff from your own home (definitely not work, either!!!) computer, for example. Get a track phone, use it 1-2 times and toss it.

Another group might be Amnesty International, but they are more of a long shot.

You might try contacting a church group, but carefully.. not all are going to be wise or able to help. Some may even be somehow tied in, particularly if the church is nearby (sad, but true).

[Gillipig]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

[Serbia]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

[DoomYoshi]

I should preface this question with the full disclosure that it isn't hypothetical. These are real women's lives we are talking about.

I live in a sex tourist destination. There is one club (a massage parlor) in town which has cheaper prices than everywhere else in town (50% - 75% cheaper than all competitors). I won't post a link due to pornographic images. All the girls are Russian or Ukrainian. So it starts as a simple Russian mob case. The girls are forced prostitutes working for the Russian mob. So, Detective DoomYoshi starts digging deeper.

Unfortunately, the story isn't as simple as that. Most of these girls never went to school. They all have breast implants. They have been doing this so long, they don't even realize that there is much wrong with it, or that they are slaves. They are, as far as I can tell, totally brainwashed and have been since before they were in Canada. This is probably why the business is so easy to monitor.

The moral question is: if the women are too far gone, should I still bother to save them? This isn't a simple case of "tell the cops" as nobody in Canada has ever been prosecuted for Human Trafficking (it was only recently declared illegal) I will need to get some form of hard evidence which will involve me upgrading the rather shitty camera I have and some more sneaky tactics.

What do you think? Should I let the Russian mob have this one?

I should also note that I have spoken to some local pastors about bringing the press on this with some kind of rally. If people realized this was a mob operation, they might be less willing to go there. However, I have had difficulty in selling this idea.

You definitely need assistance on this one. I applaud your good intentions, thoughts, but getting yourself into trouble won't help anyone. First rule of any rescuer is to protect yourself first.. because if you are gone, who will help?

Anyway, there are organizations dedicated to freeing slaves. I am not googling it just because I think you or almost anyone else would be better at it. Also, I am not feeling well and need to head down for the night. Also, in this case you DO NOT just want to go off what you find in google, you definitely have to verify. EDIT -- just saw the links posted above. They are good places to start, but as several here have said, even once you are really sure you are contacting the correct group, be VERY careful how you do it. Don't submit stuff from your own home (definitely not work, either!!!) computer, for example. Get a track phone, use it 1-2 times and toss it.

Another group might be Amnesty International, but they are more of a long shot.

You might try contacting a church group, but carefully.. not all are going to be wise or able to help. Some may even be somehow tied in, particularly if the church is nearby (sad, but true).

I already spoke to a few pastors. I figured if there could be some moral outrage element that would involve the media, that would be the best way to attack this. The mafia are only allowed to thrive based on privacy and secrecy. Opening the doors up is what Canada needs. However, not one pastor was willing to do this. Most just didn't believe the story it seems, they thought perhaps my definition of slave was a bit wide. Maybe it is, and I know there is a grey area in the middle between willing prostitute and slave, but I also know that these cases are so far to the wrong side of that grey area that it doesn't matter.

I know quite a few cops and they are mostly warning me against doing anything too obvious. However, other than this breach of security on port 80, I have a surprising number of tricks up my sleeve.

[muy_thaiguy]

Yeah, anything dealing with the Russian Mob is highly dangerous, so watch your step. But you do want to look into those groups. If you could somehow find evidence of women being smuggled across the border (to or from) of the US/Canada border, extradition should come into play and they could get their asses nailed. But make sure you have someone backing you up with whatever it is you do.

[nietzsche]

Come on, if he was really thinking of doing anything he wouldn't be posting here.

No offense DY.

Best thing we can do is make Prostitution legal, that'll end the whole thing.

And just in case I'm wrong and you will really do some detective work by your own, be extremely careful, cause it's a million dollar business you want to end, and this dudes are for certain paying some cops.

[Frigidus]

Definitely attempt to contact the police and whatever organizations that exist to deal with this sort of thing before attempting anything on your own. Also avoid naming yourself in any way. Beyond that, it isn't an easy decision. Nobody expects you to put yourself in harm's way to help others. It isn't selfish to consider your well being in the equation.

[Gillipig]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

[BoganGod]

You could approach the problem from a christian philosophical point of view. God has a plan for everyone, you should be concentrating on improving yourself and following God's plan for you. Trying to save the hos is messing with God's plan for them. Trust in God, his will be done. God allowed prostitution in the bible, all be it with a few restrictions - no prostitution on church/temple grounds, temples to not accept earnings of male prostitutes as tithe(tax break for rent boys, who says God hates gays). God even made one of his prophets marry a whore. You young man are flirting with hell and eternal damnation.

I'm not sure how police departments work in Canada. I know if I was trying to change something similar in Australia I would not be talking to the state police. Contacting the federal police would probably be a better option.

Thinking laterally, if there are any politicians that have made a career out of campaigning against corruption, inform them. If you can get a governmental anti corruption body interested that would force the police to act.

[betiko]

i ve seen stuff on tv about those trafficking... first they take these hot girls recruited in clubs and all to become "models" in western countries. Then they bring them to western countries and they owe a huge debt. those mobsters know perfectly all about these girl's families and they are pretty much trapped.
Also I've seen the same thing for afraica (even if they don't recruit in clubs and the girls meet low standards) and basically on top of that there is a warlock that sends them witchcraft spells or whatever bullshit they believe in and they don't dare escaping.
Only thing you can do about it is create more awareness ectamong citizens ect. If people stop going there it will stop being lucrative.

[Woodruff]

You could approach the problem from a christian philosophical point of view. God has a plan for everyone, you should be concentrating on improving yourself and following God's plan for you. Trying to save the hos is messing with God's plan for them. Trust in God, his will be done.

Should I presume you're trolling here? Because by that logic, why do anything at all, since whatever is God's will is unavoidably going to happen anyway? That's horrid logic and an even worse perspective.

[PLAYER57832]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

BULLSHIT
Swedes are not all selfish bastards, despite your claims. There are selfish people everywhere, but its up to you if you want to join them or not, and be sure that every last one is claiming "but everyone else does it" as their excuse. Using it as an excuse doesn't make it real, it just makes them feel better about their stupid choices.

[jonesthecurl]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

BULLSHIT
Swedes are not all selfish bastards, despite your claims. There are selfish people everywhere, but its up to you if you want to join them or not, and be sure that every last one is claiming "but everyone else does it" as their excuse. Using it as an excuse doesn't make it real, it just makes them feel better about their stupid choices.

Yes. The few Swedes I've met (mainly though the roleplay community) were exceedingly decent people, not "what's in it for me?" people.
I've met more decent Swedish people than Gillipig. Go figure.

[Woodruff]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

BULLSHIT
Swedes are not all selfish bastards, despite your claims. There are selfish people everywhere, but its up to you if you want to join them or not, and be sure that every last one is claiming "but everyone else does it" as their excuse. Using it as an excuse doesn't make it real, it just makes them feel better about their stupid choices.

Yes. The few Swedes I've met (mainly though the roleplay community) were exceedingly decent people, not "what's in it for me?" people.
I've met more decent Swedish people than Gillipig. Go figure.

It could be you. Or him. Or both.

[Gillipig]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

BULLSHIT
Swedes are not all selfish bastards, despite your claims. There are selfish people everywhere, but its up to you if you want to join them or not, and be sure that every last one is claiming "but everyone else does it" as their excuse. Using it as an excuse doesn't make it real, it just makes them feel better about their stupid choices.

Oh so now an american knows more about swedes than a swede does, lol get real please. You know nothing!

[BigBallinStalin]

It's their lives not yours, stop caring! Haven't you got something else to do? I also call bullshit on your story.

Is that what you want people to say about you, should they come across you after a horrific car accident/see you in trouble in a lake by yourself/discover you in the third story window of a burning building with no escape? One of the more self-centered, idiotic responses I've seen in these forums, and yet, totally inline with your character.

Bollocks.

People don't help each other in Sweden anymore, everyone just looks after themselves. I can't think of the last time anyone helped me with anything, so why should I help others?

Did the government inadvertently do this to you poor people?

On behalf of America, I lol in your general direction!