I refuse to let Detroit go bankrupt!

[patches70]

In Kevyn Orr's bankruptcy declaration we get some hard numbers.

Detroit has around $11.9 billion in unsecured debt. Around $6.4 billion in secured debt (those with secured debt can legally seize city property if they don't get their money), the collective "revenue bonds".

Just to service that debt, Detroit is currently spending 38 cents of every tax dollar just to pay interest. Within five years that debt service will rocket to 65 cents of every tax dollar.

Imagine having to shell out 38% of your total pay check just to pay interest on your credit cards, mortgage and any other loans you may have with that cost increasing to 65% of your paycheck in the next few years. Hahahahah!

Detroit just kept getting more loans to pay off the previous loans, increasing the principle, never paying any of it off, and simply increasing the debt service costs year after year. For decades they did this.

On that recent deferment of paying pension funding contributions to the General Retirement System ("GRS") and Police and Fire Retirement System ("PFRS"), those funds accrue interest at 8% because of the deferment. Ha! Can't pay your bills? Pay more interest!

What a debacle, and the whole statement from Orr just gets worse and worse.

[ManBungalow]

[patches70]

[Agent 86]

More Bankrupt cities to come..What is America's debt now??

[patches70]

More Bankrupt cities to come..What is America's debt now??

Exactly $16,699,396,000,000. It's been exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for 60 days now, and is projected to stay at exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for another 45 days or so. At which point we will hit our debt limit. So the story goes. How we can stay at exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for over 105 days when the Fed is monetizing $85 billion a month in new debt escapes all explanation.

Detroit needs to hire whomever it is that does the Feds accounting.

[Agent 86]

More Bankrupt cities to come..What is America's debt now??

Exactly $16,699,396,000,000. It's been exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for 60 days now, and is projected to stay at exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for another 45 days or so. At which point we will hit our debt limit. So the story goes. How we can stay at exactly $16,699,396,000,000 for over 105 days when the Fed is monetizing $85 billion a month in new debt escapes all explanation.

Detroit needs to hire whomever it is that does the Feds accounting.

Yep, some good accountants out there, just not in the U.S it seems..the books look bad

The city joins a growing list of American municipalities that have gone bust, including San Bernardino and Stockton, in California. San Bernadino had debts of $46 million and Stockton 26 million - figures dwarfed by Detroit's liabilities.

So how does this happen, working folk pay into their pensions only to find out they have nothing for retirement. So sad.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/munic ... aults.html.

I enjoyed this response: Like Thatcher said, Socialists eventually run out of other peoples' money.

Agent 86's response: If I were you, I would start learning Chinese. The American dream has become a nightmare, and not enough people appear to be in the mood to wake up. The numbers are simple enough. Your total tax take goes in Welfare; you have to borrow to defend yourselves. Whoever said you have a Republican tax system and a Democrat Welfare system was telling the truth. Having over-generous welfare is not a badge of pride but a sentence to eventual poverty for all. Similarly, by any standard, Americans do not pay much tax. Only 50% of workers pay any tax. Here in Australia the tax take from Companies in 2012 was $86bn; in the USA for the same year the corporate tax receipts were $191bn; yet you have tens of thousands more Companies than we do, and 11 times the population. Go figure. After muttering about fiscal cliffs during the election, Obama now seems to have dropped any pretence of addressing your debt problem. You guys will eventually have to pay for the decisions of leaders you have elected. I love America and all it stands for in a cold, hard world with only a few good guys left. But reality cannot be put off forever.

[patches70]

That's always the problem with kicking the can down the road. Eventually you run out of road.

[ManBungalow]

Have you guys ever seen Robocop?

[BigBallinStalin]

More Bankrupt cities to come..What is America's debt now??

$16 trillion

$55 trillion if you include unfunded liabilities (which you know should be included in one's debt). Surprise surprise, the government lies!


The alternative debt estimates are interesting ($87 and $222 trillion).


http://mercatus.org:8080/publication/us ... erspective

[ManBungalow]

BBS, don't pretend you didn't see my post.

It's important.

[Phatscotty]

BBS, don't pretend you didn't see my post.

It's important.

NICE ONE!

[BigBallinStalin]

BBS, don't pretend you didn't see my post.

It's important.

Last known footage of Charles Pugh:

[Phatscotty]

“We refused to throw in the towel and do nothing. We refused to let Detroit go bankrupt, I bet on American workers, and American ingenuity and three years later that bet is paying off in a big way.” - President Barak Obama

Great, so when do we start paying back the borrowed bailout money with interest that saved Detroit? I guess the zombie answer "it would have been a lot worse if we did nothing" is no longer applicable. I guess they were banking on the other bailout saving the economy so that Detroit could have help recovering. Oh wait, that didn't happen either. "If only we had wasted more money avoiding the inevitable, we could limp on until 2014, and then the stimulus will REALLY kick in!"

Detroit's population today is now equal to the population of Detroit in 1910. So much for the "Liberal state of the art city of the future" It didn't even last 50 years. Progress!

[Nobunaga]

And Detroit has been run by Democrats for a very long time. They haven't seen a Republican in the Mayor's office since 1961. Before that time Detroit had the highest average income per household in the U.S., the "Industrial Giant" of the world. Look at it now.

This is the inevitable result of unions and "progressive" programs allowed to run unchecked... and is bound to happen again and again. Where will be next?

[Phatscotty]

The lies of the Left just keep getting bigger and bigger and BIGGER!! BRACE YOURSELF FOR THIS RIGHT HERE!!!

MSNBC Political “analyst”: Detroit is what happens when government is too small

[patches70]

<sigh>

But most likely how it will be played out in the general media will be two sides blaming each other. "It's all the entitlements, pensions and Unions fault!" and "It's all the greedy evil speculator's fault!". "Democrat's fault!" "Republican's fault!" "Black people's fault!" "White people's fault!" So on and so on.

[patches70]

This is the inevitable result of unions and "progressive" programs allowed to run unchecked... and is bound to happen again and again. Where will be next?

A thing you should probably be aware of, all those "unions and progressive programs" you are talking about, that's all unsecured debt.

Wanna take a guess as to who holds the secured debt?

[Phatscotty]

<sigh>

But most likely how it will be played out in the general media will be two sides blaming each other. "It's all the entitlements, pensions and Unions fault!" and "It's all the greedy evil speculator's fault!". "Democrat's fault!" "Republican's fault!" "Black people's fault!" "White people's fault!" So on and so on.

I know, but sometimes it's totally true. The Democrats and the unions and the public employees have had their way with Detroit for a very VERY long time. They bled it dry

Cloward and Piven would be proud.

[patches70]

<sigh>

But most likely how it will be played out in the general media will be two sides blaming each other. "It's all the entitlements, pensions and Unions fault!" and "It's all the greedy evil speculator's fault!". "Democrat's fault!" "Republican's fault!" "Black people's fault!" "White people's fault!" So on and so on.

I know, but sometimes it's totally true. The Democrats and the unions and the public employees have had their way with Detroit for a very VERY long time. They bled it dry

Ok, and the entire country is getting bled dry no matter who is in power. You think it was just the democrats and liberals who ran up $16 trillion in debt? Now I know there are some over achievers when it comes to wasting money, but come on!

[Phatscotty]

<sigh>

But most likely how it will be played out in the general media will be two sides blaming each other. "It's all the entitlements, pensions and Unions fault!" and "It's all the greedy evil speculator's fault!". "Democrat's fault!" "Republican's fault!" "Black people's fault!" "White people's fault!" So on and so on.

I know, but sometimes it's totally true. The Democrats and the unions and the public employees have had their way with Detroit for a very VERY long time. They bled it dry

Ok, and the entire country is getting bled dry no matter who is in power. You think it was just the democrats and liberals who ran up $16 trillion in debt? Now I know there are some over achievers when it comes to wasting money, but come on!

No, they both have, of course. I have made threads about Detroit before. It wasn't that long ago I shared a story about the new state of the art library that costs 3 million dollars. At the time Liberals were laughing, even some Conservatives did not think it was a very big deal. I made sure to make a thread of it to capture the attitude and the lavishness and the frame of mind. Nobody takes it seriously until it's too late. That is something I am dedicated to changing.

We have to know who was right and who was wrong, and why. That is if we are going to learn our lesson and stop spending money we don't have. More people need to understand the error of our ways. You are right and it is true that both parties spend too much, and I am working on one of the parties along with millions of other people, but this one is ALL Democrat.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=143710&hilit=detroit+library

The South Wing is stocked with 20 yellow and orange European lounge chairs that cost $1,092 apiece, artistic pendant light fixtures and two alcohol-burning fireplaces. The project morphed from a $300,000 furniture update to a $2.3 million overhaul with new floors, study rooms, lighting and built-in, wood-framed book shelves.

"$1,100 per chair is reckless spending for a public institution," said Todd Kelly, president of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Local 1259, which represents 125 workers, including clerks, janitors and security staffers.

It's not the only spending to come under question as the system considers closing up to 18 of 23 branches and laying off as many as 191 of 333 workers. A Detroit News review showed that, since 2008, the library has paid at least $160,000 to food vendors, including $1,760 at an ice-cream shop, and spent $1 million on 6 percent raises to union workers at a time counterparts in City Hall took 10 percent pay cuts.

[oVo]

Lot's of American cities have filed for bankruptcy,
Detroit is just the biggest on record and the real
winner here once again is Wall Street.

[saxitoxin]

Then there are probably Federal loans, but poor Detroit, no bankruptcy proceedings ever can negate Federal debt.

What about default and disincorporation?

[saxitoxin]

BBS, don't pretend you didn't see my post.

It's important.

6:30 - $500 million in cash, Nuke money seized by police ... but State Attorney Sphincter won't let the bankrupt city government touch it.

[patches70]

Then there are probably Federal loans, but poor Detroit, no bankruptcy proceedings ever can negate Federal debt.

What about default and disincorporation?

In case that's a serious question, Detroit is already defaulting. In order to file chapter 9 or 11, one must prove they cannot pay their debts. You prove that you can't pay your debts by defaulting. Detroit has already defaulted on quite a few things, not the least being the payments to the pension funds the city owes.

As to disincorporation, that's a possibility I suppose, but what county surrounds Detroit? If Detroit did disincorporate then someone gets all of Detroit's assets and is on the hook for all her liabilities. Whoever takes over Detroit (a county, obviously) will have to pay that $18+ billion in debts. Not to mention, if Detroit disincorporates, all contracts, pension agreements and even employment of all city workers no longer applies. All those people would have to renegotiate those pensions and even apply to be hired for those currently working for the city.

Of all the cases of disincorporation that I know about, it's just little towns. Little debts, easily absorbed. Hell, back in the 90's Georgia disincorporated a bunch of little towns, not because they were bankrupt, but because they had no government's! Sometimes places are disincorporated in a kind of semi eminent domain type of deal, liquidate a town to use the land for some purpose. A city like Detroit, with her size, debt and problems? I dunno, disincorporation would be a long shot I think. But who knows? Maybe.

[saxitoxin]

Then there are probably Federal loans, but poor Detroit, no bankruptcy proceedings ever can negate Federal debt.

What about default and disincorporation?

In case that's a serious question, Detroit is already defaulting. In order to file chapter 9 or 11, one must prove they cannot pay their debts. You prove that you can't pay your debts by defaulting. Detroit has already defaulted on quite a few things, not the least being the payments to the pension funds the city owes.

As to disincorporation, that's a possibility I suppose, but what county surrounds Detroit? If Detroit did disincorporate then someone gets all of Detroit's assets and is on the hook for all her liabilities. Whoever takes over Detroit (a county, obviously) will have to pay that $18+ billion in debts. Not to mention, if Detroit disincorporates, all contracts, pension agreements and even employment of all city workers no longer applies. All those people would have to renegotiate those pensions and even apply to be hired for those currently working for the city.

Of all the cases of disincorporation that I know about, it's just little towns. Little debts, easily absorbed. Hell, back in the 90's Georgia disincorporated a bunch of little towns, not because they were bankrupt, but because they had no government's! Sometimes places are disincorporated in a kind of semi eminent domain type of deal, liquidate a town to use the land for some purpose. A city like Detroit, with her size, debt and problems? I dunno, disincorporation would be a long shot I think. But who knows? Maybe.

What if Michigan gave Detroit back to Ontario? Like even if they didn't want it.

In this scene Shia LaBeouf is Ontario and the neighborhood kid is Michigan -