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Concerning Zimmerman Verdict

 
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:13 pm

The George Zimmerman–Trayvon Martin issue has been manufactured by the Left — the black Left and the white Left — and by the left-wing (mainstream) media.

Most Americans’ entire informational and intellectual universe is shaped by the Left — from elementary school through graduate school, and, of course, in the news media. They rarely, if ever, encounter non-left viewpoints. As Diana Mutz, a professor of communication and political science at the University of Pennsylvania, has written, “Those with the highest levels of education have the lowest exposure to people with conflicting points of view.”

Which brings us to the killing of Trayvon Martin.

With regard to race, the Left’s portrayal of America consists of the following postulates:

The United States is a racist country — meaning, specifically, white hostility to blacks.

The reason black males make up a highly disproportionate percentage of the prison population is not that black males commit a highly disproportionate percentage of violent crime, but that the American justice system is racist.

All whites in America have the immeasurable advantage of “white privilege.” This is taught to students in most American universities.

When non-blacks score higher than blacks on academic or civil-service exams, the exams are racist.

Conservative opposition to Barack Obama is due in large measure to racism.

None of the above is true. But truth is less important to the Left than advancing these postulates. Therefore, the Left uses every opportunity to depict an event as evidence of white racism.

In Jena, La., in 2006, six black high-school students, in the words of the Associated Press, “severely beat” a white student, who was left unconscious. They were charged with attempted murder, a charge that led to national demonstrations, instigated by Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the NAACP, on behalf of the black students, thereafter known as the “Jena Six.” Several months prior to the beating, nooses were found hanging from a tree on the Jena High School campus, and after the beating a national outcry by the media and left-wing groups ensued against the alleged racism of the whites of Jena. It turned out that the nooses had nothing to do with blacks or lynching. The nooses were a prank by three students aimed at white members of the school rodeo team.

The same year, the New York Times and Duke University led a national campaign against white members of the Duke lacrosse team for allegedly gang-raping a black stripper. It was all a lie, so much so that the local North Carolina district attorney, Mike Nifong, who brought criminal charges against the team members, was eventually disbarred.

The Left knocks on every possible door in the hope that it will prove how racist whites are. Most of the time, the charges are untrue. Meanwhile, horrific attacks against whites — such as a 2012 attack in which two black boys doused with gasoline and set on fire a white 13-year-old Kansas City boy (“You get what you deserve, white boy,” they said), or the 2007 kidnapping and torture-murder by five blacks of Channon Christian, 21, and Christopher Newsom, 23, both white — are ignored by the Left and the media. Newsom was repeatedly sodomized by objects before being shot to death. Channon Christian was gang-raped vaginally, anally, and orally for days, had her genitals beaten, was urinated on, and, while alive, had bleach poured down her throat and scrubbed over her body. She was then stuffed into a garbage can with bags tied around her head and slowly suffocated to death.

One can imagine the media attention if whites had done those things to a black 13-year-old or to a black woman and her boyfriend.

Just this past weekend scores of young blacks — “bash mobs” — rampaged through various Southern California cities, knocking people over and vandalizing and stealing from stores. Though the accompanying video shows only black youths doing these things, the Los Angeles Times report identifies them only as “thieves,” “participants,” and “unruly young people.”

The George Zimmerman case is one of those doors that the Left knocks on to show how racist America is. In order to portray the Florida shooting as an example of racism, the media obscured, omitted, distorted, and sometimes lied:

The media transformed George Zimmerman into a white. The New York Times, as in the Duke lacrosse case, led the way, first identifying Zimmerman as a “white Hispanic,” then as “half-Peruvian,” then as a man “who identifies himself as Hispanic.”

At the outset, when people’s perceptions were being formed, media outlets ran photos of Trayvon Martin as a cherubic boy, not as the less-than-cherubic teenager, and rarely mentioned or showed the photos of George Zimmerman’s injuries.

Rarely, if ever, did the media note how much of Zimmerman’s life had been spent with blacks (including two black girls who were like stepsisters) and standing up for and mentoring blacks.

Rarely, if ever, did the media mention the checkered past of Trayvon Martin, who had been caught with stolen jewelry and a burglary tool in his backpack; been suspended from his school three times; defaced a school door with the letters “WTF”; and had marijuana in his system the night of the confrontation with George Zimmerman.

The media fabricated the “iced tea” part of the “iced tea and Skittles” narrative. This is important because the drink he was actually carrying was “Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail.” According to a popular recipe, that is the favored drink to combine with Skittles and prescription or Robitussin cough syrup to produce a potion for getting high; it is known as “lean” and “purple drank” (and known among some as “the poor man’s PCP”). On his Facebook page, Trayvon Martin had discussed making “lean.”

Rarely, if ever, did the media note that the best-known law professor in the country, a prominent liberal, Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School, argued not only that the Zimmerman trial should never have taken place but that the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, who brought the charges, should be disbarred (as Mike Nifong was) for distorting justice for political reasons.

And on Friday, the president of the United States, the quintessential man of the Left, poured gasoline into the left-wing-made fire.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... nis-prager
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby loutil on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:33 pm

Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
AAFitz wrote:Definitely a hero.
Also guilty of at least manslaughter.


The facts presented to a jury said otherwise.


No they didn't. He wasn't tried for manslaughter.


Actually, the jury could have found him guilty of manslaughter. The jury did ask for clarification on the manslaughter charge the last day of deliberation.


Interesting! I honestly did not realize they had that flexibility. I have always been under the impression that the jury had to follow along with whatever the charges were. Thanks for that.

So then the question that comes to my mind next is...why don't prosecutors just ALWAYS make the charges as high as possible? What incentive is there for them to "shoot for accuracy", if the jury can still go with the lesser charge? It seems to be asking for unfairness.


Actually, the instructions by the judge that they could consider lesser charges was quite unusual. She was clearly trying to bail out the prosecution as they had NO chance of a second degree murder charge.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby loutil on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:34 pm

Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:Moral of the story...do not start a fight with someone who carries a concealed weapon :) .


Did that make sense when you wrote it?

Yes, it did and still does. Not very hard to understand is it?
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:36 pm

don't start fights with anyone, regardless. In fact, try to avoid fights, certainly try to avoid sneak attacking people from the bushes
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby loutil on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:40 pm

Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:1. The police NEVER told him not to follow. The 911 dispatcher said it was not necessary. Not the same as the police telling him NOT to follow.


You're trying to excuse idiotic behavior based on a technicality of wording when the police dispatcher's intent was clear.
No i am not and I do not consider his behavior to be idiotic even if you do. That is just your opinion :). There is a quite a distinction between "that is not necessary" and "do not do that".

loutil wrote:2. This was no "innocent kid". This was someone with a history of burglary and fighting. This was someone who was high on drugs at the time and was scoring "Lean" when this happened.


Wait, what? I don't recall seeing evidence of a drug test having been performed on Martin that showed he was under the influence at the time. Got a link?
Martin’s autopsy shows he had tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), which is the active ingredient in marijuana, in his system, ABC News reported. Feel free to google it up...

loutil wrote:4. Once again, he did not "ignore" trained police officers no matter how many times you wish to repeat that.


He just ignored their advisement. Is that really a relevant distinction in your mind?

As I already stated...yes it is. You should understand that 911 dispatchers are NOT trained police officers.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Night Strike on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:06 pm

Woodruff wrote:Interesting! I honestly did not realize they had that flexibility. I have always been under the impression that the jury had to follow along with whatever the charges were. Thanks for that.

So then the question that comes to my mind next is...why don't prosecutors just ALWAYS make the charges as high as possible? What incentive is there for them to "shoot for accuracy", if the jury can still go with the lesser charge? It seems to be asking for unfairness.


The judge allowed the prosecution to add that charge on right before closing arguments. In my mind, that should have been grounds for appeal and/or vacating the verdict if he had been found guilty of manslaughter since the defense never had the opportunity to defend Zimmerman of that charge. Thankfully self-defense would apply to all charges, but still that doesn't seem to be due process by getting to add on charges at literally the last minute.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:31 pm

Phatscotty wrote:They could have found him guilty of aggravated assault as well, but they did not.


Actually, they could not. The prosecution requested that the judge allow the jury to consider 3rd degree murder based on child abuse and a charge of manslaughter. The judge allowed them to consider manslaughter but not 3rd degree murder. The prosecution did not request the charge of aggravated assault, so the jury could not consider it.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:40 pm

Doc_Brown wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:They could have found him guilty of aggravated assault as well, but they did not.


Actually, they could not. The prosecution requested that the judge allow the jury to consider 3rd degree murder based on child abuse and a charge of manslaughter. The judge allowed them to consider manslaughter but not 3rd degree murder. The prosecution did not request the charge of aggravated assault, so the jury could not consider it.


they could have charged with aggravated assault, they did not....

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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Ray Rider on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:46 pm

To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to this whole case as it has developed. However I just watched an Afterburner episode on it, thought it was quite well done, and figured you people might be interested. You're welcome.

Afterburner: The Lynching
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby notyou2 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:59 pm

Ray Rider wrote:To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to this whole case as it has developed. However I just watched an Afterburner episode on it, thought it was quite well done, and figured you people might be interested. You're welcome.

Afterburner: The Lynching


OK, I just watched most of that.

A 17 year old kid has stolen goods, and bought some ingredients to make a concoction that gets you high. He is aggressive and apparently sends texts of aggressive and sexual behavior. He comes from a broken home as well and has probably been passed back and forth and felt he was infringing on both sets of parents and felkt he was unloved.

ALL OF THAT sounds like the life of about 50% of American 17 year olds. I did almost all of those things by 17. That guy is trying to demonize a typical American teen.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby patrickaa317 on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:36 pm

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
AAFitz wrote:Definitely a hero.
Also guilty of at least manslaughter.


The facts presented to a jury said otherwise.


No they didn't. He wasn't tried for manslaughter.


Actually, the jury could have found him guilty of manslaughter. The jury did ask for clarification on the manslaughter charge the last day of deliberation.


Interesting! I honestly did not realize they had that flexibility. I have always been under the impression that the jury had to follow along with whatever the charges were. Thanks for that.

So then the question that comes to my mind next is...why don't prosecutors just ALWAYS make the charges as high as possible? What incentive is there for them to "shoot for accuracy", if the jury can still go with the lesser charge? It seems to be asking for unfairness.


Actually, the instructions by the judge that they could consider lesser charges was quite unusual. She was clearly trying to bail out the prosecution as they had NO chance of a second degree murder charge.


Woodruff, loutil has this correct. It is typically quite unusual for this scenario to happen.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:50 pm

Q: Do you approve or disapprove of the jury’'s verdict last week finding Zimmerman not guilty in Martin’s death?

White: 51% Approve, 31% Disapprove, 18% Undecided
Hispanic: 24% Approve, 50% Disapprove, 26% Undecided
Black: 9% Approve, 86% Disapprove, 7% Undecided

High School Graduate or Dropout: 31% Approve, 47% Disapprove, 22% Undecided
Some University, No Degree: 42% Approve, 43% Disapprove, 15% Undecided
University Degree: 54% Approve, 32% Disapprove, 14% Undecided
Postgraduate Degree: 51% Approve, 27% Disapprove, 22% Undecided

Republican: 65% Approve, 20% Disapprove, 15% Undecided
Democrat: 22% Approve, 62% Disapprove, 16% Undecided
Independent: 44% Approve, 35% Disapprove, 21% Undecided

http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010 ... ZFflevhikA
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby loutil on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:56 pm

notyou2 wrote:
Ray Rider wrote:To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to this whole case as it has developed. However I just watched an Afterburner episode on it, thought it was quite well done, and figured you people might be interested. You're welcome.

Afterburner: The Lynching


OK, I just watched most of that.

A 17 year old kid has stolen goods, and bought some ingredients to make a concoction that gets you high. He is aggressive and apparently sends texts of aggressive and sexual behavior. He comes from a broken home as well and has probably been passed back and forth and felt he was infringing on both sets of parents and felkt he was unloved.

ALL OF THAT sounds like the life of about 50% of American 17 year olds. I did almost all of those things by 17. That guy is trying to demonize a typical American teen.

Seriously? 50% of American kids have committed burglary? Not petty theft but breaking and entering and taking jewlery. 50% of American kids have a history and reputation for fighting and want to fight a previous opponent because he was not bloodied enough? He was passed back from his mother because of all the trouble he had gotten into including being suspended from school. This was no normal 17 yr old...sorry.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby loutil on Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:57 pm

Ray Rider wrote:To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to this whole case as it has developed. However I just watched an Afterburner episode on it, thought it was quite well done, and figured you people might be interested. You're welcome.

Afterburner: The Lynching

Very good video. I posted it a few days ago in another thread in this forum.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:20 pm

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
AAFitz wrote:Definitely a hero.
Also guilty of at least manslaughter.


The facts presented to a jury said otherwise.


No they didn't. He wasn't tried for manslaughter.


Actually, the jury could have found him guilty of manslaughter. The jury did ask for clarification on the manslaughter charge the last day of deliberation.


Interesting! I honestly did not realize they had that flexibility. I have always been under the impression that the jury had to follow along with whatever the charges were. Thanks for that.

So then the question that comes to my mind next is...why don't prosecutors just ALWAYS make the charges as high as possible? What incentive is there for them to "shoot for accuracy", if the jury can still go with the lesser charge? It seems to be asking for unfairness.


Actually, the instructions by the judge that they could consider lesser charges was quite unusual.


I see. Makes sense, given the circumstances.

loutil wrote:She was clearly trying to bail out the prosecution as they had NO chance of a second degree murder charge.


While I agree with you that the prosecution had no chance of the second degree murder charge (I thought it was a foolish charge), I doubt it was anything of the sort. Much more likely that the circumstances involved in how the situation was created played into it, which honestly seems quite reasonable.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:21 pm

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:Moral of the story...do not start a fight with someone who carries a concealed weapon :) .


Did that make sense when you wrote it?


Yes, it did and still does. Not very hard to understand is it?


Well, it's hard to understand how someone is going to be aware in advance of a citizen carrying a concealed weapon, for instance.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:don't start fights with anyone, regardless.


Certainly I agree with this. The rest of your post was so much nonsense.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Ray Rider on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:23 pm

loutil wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
Ray Rider wrote:To be honest, I haven't really paid attention to this whole case as it has developed. However I just watched an Afterburner episode on it, thought it was quite well done, and figured you people might be interested. You're welcome.

Afterburner: The Lynching


OK, I just watched most of that.

A 17 year old kid has stolen goods, and bought some ingredients to make a concoction that gets you high. He is aggressive and apparently sends texts of aggressive and sexual behavior. He comes from a broken home as well and has probably been passed back and forth and felt he was infringing on both sets of parents and felkt he was unloved.

ALL OF THAT sounds like the life of about 50% of American 17 year olds. I did almost all of those things by 17. That guy is trying to demonize a typical American teen.

Seriously? 50% of American kids have committed burglary? Not petty theft but breaking and entering and taking jewlery. 50% of American kids have a history and reputation for fighting and want to fight a previous opponent because he was not bloodied enough? He was passed back from his mother because of all the trouble he had gotten into including being suspended from school. This was no normal 17 yr old...sorry.

Agreed; and furthermore, notyou2 very tellingly avoided mentioning the case for Zimmerman's character regarding racism as well, which is just as important. Plus there's the issue of the close, hand-to-hand combat and media portrayal of those involved which is also very telling.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Ray Rider on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:23 pm

Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:Moral of the story...do not start a fight with someone who carries a concealed weapon :) .


Did that make sense when you wrote it?


Yes, it did and still does. Not very hard to understand is it?


Well, it's hard to understand how someone is going to be aware in advance of a citizen carrying a concealed weapon, for instance.

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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:26 pm

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:1. The police NEVER told him not to follow. The 911 dispatcher said it was not necessary. Not the same as the police telling him NOT to follow.


You're trying to excuse idiotic behavior based on a technicality of wording when the police dispatcher's intent was clear.


No i am not and I do not consider his behavior to be idiotic even if you do. That is just your opinion :). There is a quite a distinction between "that is not necessary" and "do not do that".


The color change isn't necessary, and makes your posts far more difficult to read (at least for me, being somewhat color-blind). That aside, you seem to be willing to go to any length to defend Zimmerman.

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:2. This was no "innocent kid". This was someone with a history of burglary and fighting. This was someone who was high on drugs at the time and was scoring "Lean" when this happened.


Wait, what? I don't recall seeing evidence of a drug test having been performed on Martin that showed he was under the influence at the time. Got a link?


Martin’s autopsy shows he had tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), which is the active ingredient in marijuana, in his system, ABC News reported. Feel free to google it up...


That doesn't in any way show that Martin was under the influence at the time. Do you have even a basic understanding of how marijuana affects the body?

loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:4. Once again, he did not "ignore" trained police officers no matter how many times you wish to repeat that.


He just ignored their advisement. Is that really a relevant distinction in your mind?


As I already stated...yes it is. You should understand that 911 dispatchers are NOT trained police officers.


Again, you seem willing to defend him beyond reason. I don't really understand that.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:27 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:Interesting! I honestly did not realize they had that flexibility. I have always been under the impression that the jury had to follow along with whatever the charges were. Thanks for that.

So then the question that comes to my mind next is...why don't prosecutors just ALWAYS make the charges as high as possible? What incentive is there for them to "shoot for accuracy", if the jury can still go with the lesser charge? It seems to be asking for unfairness.


The judge allowed the prosecution to add that charge on right before closing arguments. In my mind, that should have been grounds for appeal and/or vacating the verdict if he had been found guilty of manslaughter since the defense never had the opportunity to defend Zimmerman of that charge. Thankfully self-defense would apply to all charges, but still that doesn't seem to be due process by getting to add on charges at literally the last minute.


I would definitely agree with you as far as making the change with late notice. That doesn't seem just.
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Re: Zimmerman - Hero?

Postby john9blue on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:48 pm

Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
loutil wrote:Moral of the story...do not start a fight with someone who carries a concealed weapon :) .


Did that make sense when you wrote it?


Yes, it did and still does. Not very hard to understand is it?


Well, it's hard to understand how someone is going to be aware in advance of a citizen carrying a concealed weapon, for instance.


i'm going to pull a "john's mom" here and say that trayvon should have thought of that before he started the fight in the first place.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby john9blue on Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:57 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Q: Do you approve or disapprove of the jury’'s verdict last week finding Zimmerman not guilty in Martin’s death?

White: 51% Approve, 31% Disapprove, 18% Undecided
Hispanic: 24% Approve, 50% Disapprove, 26% Undecided
Black: 9% Approve, 86% Disapprove, 7% Undecided


not only did 86% of blacks disapprove, but 84% of them STRONGLY disapproved. seems like a reasonable and impartial group of people.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby Phatscotty on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:23 am

The prosecutor may very well be disbarred.
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Re: Zimmerman

Postby macbone on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:43 am

What did you guys think of this lady who was photographed at a pro-Zimmerman rally in Texas?

At one point, Renee Vaughan of Austin mocked protesters by chanting, "We're racist. We're proud. We're better 'cause we're white."


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http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... to-4944084

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/35 ... will-allen

The Houston Chronicle article says she was mocking the pro-Zimmerman folks, but some news outlets erroneously labeled her as a pro-Zimmerman supporter. Her sign was used as evidence of racism against Martin, although in an interview with the woman she clearly says she's using the sign as some kind of satire and that she supports Martin.

Her charges didn't cover all of the pro-Zimmerman protesters, though:

"What's my excuse then?" Mark Medina, a Hispanic Marine, said to Travis McVay, a white oil field safety worker, as she passed.


I didn't follow the trial very closely, but it sounded to me like Zimmerman was getting the crap beaten out of him and pulled his gun in self-defense. The woman in the photograph isn't racist or pro-Zimmerman, but she's arguing that many pro-Zimmerman supporters are. I don't agree with her methods, but I'd be very interested to see how many people support Zimmerman solely on the basis of Zimmerman's and/or Martin's race (and yes, I know Zimmerman is Hispanic).

Kinda like with President Obama - I know many people disagree with him based on his policies, but there are plenty of people who don't think a black man should be president of the US, like the folks who started displaying "chair lynchings" after Clint Eastwood's speech at the RNC. (And HK is no stranger to racism, either - a poll a few months ago revealed that something like 27% of HKers didn't want someone of a different race as their next-door neighbor).

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http://gawker.com/5944974/its-a-trend-a ... n-virginia

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Here's what the homeowner that put up the second chair said:

"I don't really give a damn whether it disturbs you or not," Johnson reportedly told Haenschen. "You can take [your concerns] and go straight to hell and take Obama with you. I don't give a shit. If you don't like it, don't come down my street."

Burnt Orange Report notes that Johnson isn't just some neighborhood crank — he's the August 2010 winner of the Homeowners Association's "Yard of the Month".


http://gawker.com/5944869/texas-homeown ... dent-obama
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