Obama disbands US Constitution

[thegreekdog]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

[Phatscotty]

How about there isn't any doubt the time you waste trying to frame people into position they don't even hold? It's the hallmark of your dishonesty...like trying to turn a statement about debt/spending into gay marriage. See how ya are?

Spock doesn't roll that way, so why don't you stop disgracing his image???

hmm... well, Spock did tend to corner people into admitting they hold positions they like to claim they did not.


The topic above was freedom. You like to pretend you can seperate your fiscal policies from your social ones, but its all about real freedom.

What's more Freedom than letting the people decide for themselves? as a community? You think imposing your change on others, against their will and their religion is Freedom?

[Phatscotty]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

Why do you give social conservatives (not tea party members) so much influence over the Tea Party? I've never understood your statements here.

[Phatscotty]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

No, you only care about that when it is individuals who might benefit from the expenditures.

Example? Not an example of an individual that might benefit, but an example that I do not care about a single thing that benefits the society?

Rubbish

[Phatscotty]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

Isn't he adorable?

I've only ever been for the people being able to choose for themselves at a state level. Of that, I am guilty, but I have always supported the decision of democracy and Liberty either way on redefining marriage. To each their own.You and I understand Freedom very differently, obviously...

Oh, there's never been any doubt of that.

How about there isn't any doubt the time you waste trying to frame people into position they don't even hold?

I thought you were a Tea Partier? Hasn't that been your claim? Isn't that what you tried to claim when you finally tried to climb out of the box you put yourself into regarding Libertarianism? I'm just trying to keep up with you, Phatscotty.

It's the hallmark of your dishonesty...like trying to turn a statement about debt/spending into gay marriage. See how ya are?

Spock doesn't roll that way, so why don't you stop disgracing his image???

How you can manage to avoid seeing the irony in half the things you say is beyond me.

Spock uses logic. you are an emotional twat if there ever was one. That is the irony, my dear, dear friend

[Nobunaga]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

That's too bad. To be honest, I haven't been active since 2011 at the latest. Perhaps it's changed for the worse.

[Phatscotty]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

That's too bad. To be honest, I haven't been active since 2011 at the latest. Perhaps it's changed for the worse.

Many have given up. Many more are just joining. Far too many have cable news as a primary source.

We used to only have 2 guys in the House talking and introducing legislation towards ending the Fed, and abolishing the IRS. Now we have more than a handful of Senators and dozens in the house. Right direction or wrong direction? you decide

[Woodruff]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

Why do you give social conservatives (not tea party members) so much influence over the Tea Party? I've never understood your statements here.

thegreekdog isn't giving social conservatives so much influence over the Tea Party. The Tea Party already did that. thegreekdog simply recognizes it.

[Woodruff]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

Isn't he adorable?

I've only ever been for the people being able to choose for themselves at a state level. Of that, I am guilty, but I have always supported the decision of democracy and Liberty either way on redefining marriage. To each their own.You and I understand Freedom very differently, obviously...

Oh, there's never been any doubt of that.

How about there isn't any doubt the time you waste trying to frame people into position they don't even hold?

I thought you were a Tea Partier? Hasn't that been your claim? Isn't that what you tried to claim when you finally tried to climb out of the box you put yourself into regarding Libertarianism? I'm just trying to keep up with you, Phatscotty.

It's the hallmark of your dishonesty...like trying to turn a statement about debt/spending into gay marriage. See how ya are?

Spock doesn't roll that way, so why don't you stop disgracing his image???

How you can manage to avoid seeing the irony in half the things you say is beyond me.

Spock uses logic. you are an emotional twat if there ever was one. That is the irony, my dear, dear friend

I wonder if you ever hear the whooshing sound, or if it's high enough so as to go unnoticed?

[thegreekdog]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

Why do you give social conservatives (not tea party members) so much influence over the Tea Party? I've never understood your statements here.

I (and people like me) were unfortunatley vastly outnumbered. It's like asking me why I give the presidency to Barack Obama; I did my best to control the situation and was not able to succeed. Or perhaps I don't understand your question. The guys I'm with say, "Let's drop the gay marriage and abortion stuff and focus on government spending and taxes." The more numerous people say, "No." What to do?

[thegreekdog]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

That's too bad. To be honest, I haven't been active since 2011 at the latest. Perhaps it's changed for the worse.

I suspect there are local chapters that are more concerned with government spending than with social issues, but it seems pretty clear that nationally (and in my own localized area) the concerns expand to social issues. I'd rather "waste" my vote and support on a libertarian candidate that a small government, except for gay marriage, abortion, etc. candidate.

[BigBallinStalin]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.
Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.
I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.
A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.
Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

Most Libertarians I know loved the Tea Party initially, but left it when it was co-opted by the Republican Party to further their social agenda. I'm not really a Libertarian, but I do like a lot of their ideas and favored the Tea Party myself for a time until that happened (I'm even avoiding the big name folks who were definitely part of the co-opting like Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin and Christine O'Donnell (and I think you know where they stand on the subject of gay marriage):

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/gay_tea_party_activist_denounces_gay_marriage/
and
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gay-tea-party-founder-if-we-redefine-marriage-we-re-going-redefine-children
and
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/06/24/253382/tea-party-nation-same-sex-marriage-will-become-one-more-factor-in-the-destruction-of-america/
and
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-gay-equality-marriage-freak-show

Even at the local level: http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20130802/NEWS01/308020025/Tea-party-discuss-opposition-gay-marriage?nclick_check=1

Is the above a good example of confirmation bias and/or sample bias?

[Phatscotty]

I care about reducing spending and debt.

And most of the conservative-based anti-freedom social views on things like homosexual marriage. That's what makes you a Tea Partier instead of a Libertarian.

That's interesting. I didn't know the Tea Party cared one way or another about gay marriage, unless of course it involves a loss of liberty or higher taxes/debt.

Can you show me where this is coming from, Woodruff? You don't seem the type to be led by the nose by the national media, which portrays the party as racist rednecks.

I'm not a member but I've been to 3 meetings and 1 rally, and gay marriage was never brought up. In fact not a single social issue was ever mentioned.

A lot of the members are in fact Libertarians I discovered, even if they don't recognize themselves as such.

Not being argumentative, genuinely wanting to know.

I was at a number of inceptional-type meetings of my local Tea Party. There was a large minority of disaffected Republicans and Libertarians. We were roundly shouted down and I eventually left because the Tea Party meetings at my local chapter became as much about social conservatism as libertarian government ideals. I don't know about the rest of the random chapters, but I was not happy when the Tea Party message was co-opted by social conservatives nationally.

Why do you give social conservatives (not tea party members) so much influence over the Tea Party? I've never understood your statements here.

I (and people like me) were unfortunatley vastly outnumbered. It's like asking me why I give the presidency to Barack Obama; I did my best to control the situation and was not able to succeed. Or perhaps I don't understand your question. The guys I'm with say, "Let's drop the gay marriage and abortion stuff and focus on government spending and taxes." The more numerous people say, "No." What to do?

So, in your opinion, no Tea Party member can have an opinion on gay marriage or abortion either way? Or is it as long as they are the right way on gay marriage and abortion, then cutting spending and reducing debt is okay? Or if they care a lot about spending and debt, and actually do things to cut spending and reduce debt, but the moment they take a position either way on gay marriage or abortion, then the Greek Dog is out and the Tea Party has been co-opted?

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

[Woodruff]

I (and people like me) were unfortunatley vastly outnumbered. It's like asking me why I give the presidency to Barack Obama; I did my best to control the situation and was not able to succeed. Or perhaps I don't understand your question. The guys I'm with say, "Let's drop the gay marriage and abortion stuff and focus on government spending and taxes." The more numerous people say, "No." What to do?

So, in your opinion, no Tea Party member can have an opinion on gay marriage or abortion either way?

thegreekdog has not even implied that was the case, so stop with your strawman already.

Or is it as long as they are the right way on gay marriage and abortion, then cutting spending and reducing debt is okay?

What "right way"? What thegreekdog is saying, if I am reading him right, is that gay marriage/abortion are largely irrelevant to the alleged purpose of the Tea Party as a functioning group.

Or if they care a lot about spending and debt, and actually do things to cut spending and reduce debt, but the moment they take a position either way on gay marriage or abortion, then the Greek Dog is out and the Tea Party has been co-opted?

He's not speaking of individuals, he's speaking of the Tea Party at large and in particular the LEADERSHIP OF THE TEA PARTY ITSELF.

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

For you to not have heard anything like that, you must be willfully not listening or you're lying about it. It's simply unavoidably one of those two things, as prevalent as it is among the Tea Party leadership.

(thegreekdog, please correct me where I've misrepresented your thoughts.)

[Phatscotty]

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

For you to not have heard anything like that, you must be willfully not listening or you're lying about it. It's simply unavoidably one of those two things, as prevalent as it is among the Tea Party leadership.

Show an example then, if it's so prevalent.....

all you know how to do it annoy and agitate people. Put up or STFU

[Woodruff]

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

For you to not have heard anything like that, you must be willfully not listening or you're lying about it. It's simply unavoidably one of those two things, as prevalent as it is among the Tea Party leadership.

Show an example then, if it's so prevalent.....
all you know how to do it annoy and agitate people. Put up or STFU

Are you actually unable to follow the thread, or is it just that you've willfully decided to ignore all evidence that is contrary to your preconceived notions? I have long suspected your inability to read, and you appear determined to prove the suspicion valid.

That which you are demanding has already been provided, and not very long ago at that. STFU, indeed.

[Phatscotty]

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

For you to not have heard anything like that, you must be willfully not listening or you're lying about it. It's simply unavoidably one of those two things, as prevalent as it is among the Tea Party leadership.

Show an example then, if it's so prevalent.....
all you know how to do it annoy and agitate people. Put up or STFU

Are you actually unable to follow the thread, or is it just that you've willfully decided to ignore all evidence that is contrary to your preconceived notions? I have long suspected your inability to read, and you appear determined to prove the suspicion valid.

That which you are demanding has already been provided, and not very long ago at that. STFU, indeed.

nice dodge. I ask for the evidence, you don't provide any, and then accuse me of ignoring the evidence.

Round and round you go!

[saxitoxin]

Anyone remember way back last year when Obama was secretly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood?

Today Tea Party Nation president Judson Phillips emailed members an article from fellow activist Marcia Wood on the Arab Spring. Wood writes that “Obama has blatantly without remorse lied to Americans time and time again” in order to bolster the Muslim Brotherhood ...

- See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/t ... Bs4HV.dpuf

Now, this year, Obama is secretly working against the Muslim Brotherhood.

During their whirlwind tour of Cairo Tuesday, two top GOP senators held the most extensive meeting to date between U.S. officials and senior officials in the embattled Muslim Brotherhood, whose supporters are fighting in the streets to overturn last month’s military takeover of Egypt.

McCain and Graham also believe the removal and imprisonment of Morsi and several other Muslim Brotherhood leaders was a military coup, one that could mandate a cutoff of $1.3 billion of U.S. military aid to Egypt. The Obama administration has avoided saying whether or not they believe there was a coup in Egypt.

As for the Obama administration’s handling of the crisis, McCain said that Secretary of State John Kerry did not strike the right tone when he said last week that “the military did not take over,” comments he later had to walk back.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... cairo.html

This is proof Obama is a bad leader. He needs to pick ONE evil conspiracy to secretly engineer and STICK TO IT. That's what leaders do.

[Woodruff]

I've never heard that or heard about anything like that. The Tea Party is only about Fiscal issues and Liberty. Forgive any Tea Party member who dared have an opinion (either way) on any other issue. I'm sorry that you had to hear a person speak for/against gay marriage/abortion at a Tea Party rally you attended, and that it forms solidly for all time your opinion about tens of millions of fiscally Conservative Constitution loving Americans who identify as Tea Party and whose main priority is to cut spending and reduce debt burden on the next generation.

For you to not have heard anything like that, you must be willfully not listening or you're lying about it. It's simply unavoidably one of those two things, as prevalent as it is among the Tea Party leadership.

Show an example then, if it's so prevalent.....
all you know how to do it annoy and agitate people. Put up or STFU

Are you actually unable to follow the thread, or is it just that you've willfully decided to ignore all evidence that is contrary to your preconceived notions? I have long suspected your inability to read, and you appear determined to prove the suspicion valid.

That which you are demanding has already been provided, and not very long ago at that. STFU, indeed.

nice dodge. I ask for the evidence, you don't provide any, and then accuse me of ignoring the evidence.

Do you want me to list it on every fucking page for you, Phatscotty? If you ignored it two pages ago, what is going to stop you from ignoring it on this page? Meanwhile, you ignore almost any relevant question leveled at you by anyone.

God, you really are a dishonest motherfucker.

[Phatscotty]

If you could put up, then you would. I'll leave it at that