If you could fire anyone in the world....

[Gillipig]

Kittens!!

That ain't no kittens: that's a full-blown cat!

Got to give it to Timminz here. You see Timminz avatar? That's a kitten, you see my avatar? That's a cat! Hence also the difference in our personality. Timminz is quirky and cute, I'm selfish and a danger to society.

[jay_a2j]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

[Symmetry]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

[jay_a2j]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

[Symmetry]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

Do you think that there's a good argument for citizens to be able to elect who they want?

[jay_a2j]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

Do you think that there's a good argument for citizens to be able to elect who they want?

They can elect who they want. They just will have a different choice after 8 years. If the president has term limits, so should congress and the supreme court . Lifetime appointees! That's madness.

Do you think it's ok for the president and congress to pass healthcare reform then EXEMPT themselves from it? If THAT doesn't reek of corruption, nothing does!

[BigBallinStalin]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

[Symmetry]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

Do you think that there's a good argument for citizens to be able to elect who they want?

They can elect who they want. They just will have a different choice after 8 years.

I'm having trouble reconciling these two sentences. Should voters be allowed to freely choose who they want in office or not?

[Serbia]

You do realize that each US Senator is elected to serve a term of 6 years, right? Are you also therefore suggesting that term be reduced to a 4 year stint? Or are you exempting the Senate, and thinking only of the House? Or would you set a different limit for the Senate, whether it's one 6 year term, or 2 (thus 12 years)?

Or did you not bother putting this much thought into your answer?

Bollocks.

[Symmetry]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

[Gillipig]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

No, more like an argument against corrupt politicians being re-elected term after term.

Welcome back btw Symmetry .

[Symmetry]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

No, more like an argument against corrupt politicians being re-elected term after term.

Welcome back btw Symmetry .

Thanks for the welcome, but I'm not sure you answered my question fairly. Whether a person is corrupt or not seems to me irrelevant to the issue of whether they should be a candidate for office.

[Gillipig]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

No, more like an argument against corrupt politicians being re-elected term after term.

Welcome back btw Symmetry .

Thanks for the welcome, but I'm not sure you answered my question fairly. Whether a person is corrupt or not seems to me irrelevant to the issue of whether they should be a candidate for office.

That sounds rather wicked. You want politicians who don't care for anything but their own personal gain to stay in congress?

[Symmetry]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

No, more like an argument against corrupt politicians being re-elected term after term.

Welcome back btw Symmetry .

Thanks for the welcome, but I'm not sure you answered my question fairly. Whether a person is corrupt or not seems to me irrelevant to the issue of whether they should be a candidate for office.

That sounds rather wicked. You want politicians who don't care for anything but their own personal gain to stay in congress?

Whether I want them to be there or not is irrelevant, my point is whether citizens should be allowed to elect them.

[BigBallinStalin]

I find it hard to disagree with jay on this issue. His reasoning on term limits for Congress are similar to why the president can serve no more than 8 years. Many of the incumbents have pretty much perfected the rules of the game, so they can wheel and deal at lower costs. Just have them kicked out, and it'll increase the costs of "political coziness" with the many interest groups.

Isn't that essentially an argument against citizens being allowed to choose their representatives?

No, it's about the time frame. There's a difference between the duration and the range of reps.

[Phatscotty]

Piers F'n Morgan

[Lootifer]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

The flipside to this argument is that you get officials making very short term decisions, that may benefit them in the short term but could leave horrible long term effects. Theres no easy way around this (though again I propose we vote on policies not people). You can see a similar thing in the private sector where CEOs have generally accepted limited terms which result in some pretty negative effects.

[Gillipig]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

The flipside to this argument is that you get officials making very short term decisions, that may benefit them in the short term but could leave horrible long term effects. Theres no easy way around this (though again I propose we vote on policies not people). You can see a similar thing in the private sector where CEOs have generally accepted limited terms which result in some pretty negative effects.

But they already do that!!

[NoSurvivors]

Donald Trump.

[DoomYoshi]

David Coppafeel... I want his job

[saxitoxin]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without one of the rapscallions like AoG starting an "if you could finger anyone" thread.

Anyway, as for term limits; say there were 8-year term limits, the new career trajectory of the now (term-limited) citizen politicians would be something like this -

age 18-22: Joe Citizen goes to New Jersey A&M, majors in political science; volunteers/interns on XYZ campaign during the summers
age 22-25: Joe goes to Hoboken School of Law (sorry, TGD, we can't all make it into an Ivy)
age 25-27: Joe goes to work as a legislative aid to a member of the New Jersey congressional delegation
age 27-31: Joe is elected to the Morris County Board of Chosen Freeholders
age 27-35: Joe is elected the New Jersey General Assembly
age 35-43: Joe elected to U.S. Congress from New Jersey
age 43-63: term limited out of Congress, Joe goes to work as a public affairs consultant / lobbyist

Term limits won't create a Mr. Smith Goes to Washington scenario where the Congress is filled with tinkers, tailors and soldiers. It'll just mean the backlog of entry-level career political positions will thin out slightly as people move from Congress to K-Street faster which will create a slight surplus of lobbyists. So all term limits will accomplish is to depress the salaries of lobbyists. They'll still be well paid, just not quite as well.

[2dimes]

I was about to reply to one....

[saxitoxin]

I was about to reply to one....

I don't want the label of "rapscallion." Not now! Not ever!

[2dimes]

I'm not really into labels. Nicknames on the other hand...

[BigBallinStalin]

Easy.


Barrak Obama/ Joe Bidden & the Congress with immediate 8 year term limits for all members of Congress.

Out of interest, why do you feel that 8 years in office should disbar a candidate from being elected by his/her peers?

Because if there was an 8 year term limit people would be less likely to become corrupt. Then maybe we would get people who actually wanted to help this country in office instead of pandering to special interests so they can "stay" in office..... forever.

The flipside to this argument is that you get officials making very short term decisions, that may benefit them in the short term but could leave horrible long term effects. Theres no easy way around this (though again I propose we vote on policies not people). You can see a similar thing in the private sector where CEOs have generally accepted limited terms which result in some pretty negative effects.

I've never really known any career-politician who not only looked toward the long-term, but on net acted toward the long-term. Perhaps the main problem is that regardless of whether they aim for short- or long-term, they still attempt to benefit themselves and their constituents--at the expense of others, in that zero-sum game of governmental exchange. Also, voters are impatient and have short-term memories/don't care enough to consider the ramifications of political actions nor care enough about linking past political acts with current problems caused by politics.

Even if we admit that such a time-cap would gear the politicians more toward the short-term, I don't see the change being significant enough--considering the electorate's general behavior and the rules of the game with government.

Shorter terms would limit interest groups' ability to sway politicians and garner political clout over the decades with Senator X. If we increase the transaction costs of crony capitalism (ceteris paribus), crony capitalism would decrease.