Phatscotty wrote: PLAYER57832 wrote:Phatscotty wrote:AAFitz wrote:Thank you for surpassing my wildest expectations in this thread.
I hope others are enjoying the raging economy too. Sorry to see you guys have so much time to waste bashing it....
House prices are still down 50% from their peak, oil is over 100$ a barrel, interest rates are still at rock bottom, gas is almost 4$ a gallon, and our government is going DEEP into debt just to stay afloat. Nice raging economy
Imagine if house prices rose 50%, oil was 30$ a barrel and gas was 1.68 a gallon, wow the economy was REALLY be raging wouldn't it? That's exactly how things were....in 2003 2004 2005 2006
I see, and aside from rhetoric how is any of this directly related to the current president? (or the others, for that matter?)
I already know that with you, any positive economic new Obama gets credit for, and any negative economic news is not credited to Obama.
You know nothing, you simply assume that anybody not agreeing with you fits into stereotypes you think are real. You almost never challenge what I actually say, you just lapse into rhetoric diatribe.
If you would bother to actually READ what I have written, I have always said that the president has far less control over the economy than most people, conservatives in particularly, want to credit.
Phatscotty wrote:Obama oversaw the TARP and bailout programs. If you want to make a case that TARP has no direct relation to real estate prices, that's all you.
LOL
Something tells me the truth is too complicated for you to deal with.. far simpler to just "blame Obama". But...
Obama didn't truly oversee TARP, as you claim. It was mostly set up before he even got into office and with many constraints and provisions already established before he came into office. It wasn't really Bush's deal, either, but he did have more to do with it than Obama.
Per Real Estate prices... blame the so-called "securitized loans", unregulated lending policies and bonus structures that not only eased lending rules, but encouraged managers to just make sales, even "cook the books" because the loans would be sold off long before anyone could find any problems, artificially inflating prices in many areas...... THOSE are why the real estate bit took a hit.
Then, to make matters worse, the banks essentially got a free pass, with us taking the bulk of the hit, and banks who made the bad loans got to sock it to anyone with even a modicum of bad fortune under the guise of recouping bank debts. In decent areas, investors, who already had ready cash got a nice windfall in under priced properties. Working people got the shaft... all but those with absolutely stellar credit were denied. Many areas became foreclosure "deserts".
The real "crisis" hit mostly places that never should have seen the prices they did or been built up as heavily as they were (subdivisions in the "middle of nowhere", for example). The rest was fake games played so banks could keep getting their money (despite their many protests to the contrary), and a bunch of speculating investors could get rick quick... again.
Now, some areas are again over-priced, boosted by investors and leaving honest home owners having to pay more than they should to compete with cash offers... and often losing too boot.
I do wish Obama had done more, think he probably could have, though perhaps not without congress. However, to blame him is misguided.. it was the banks that created that mess and are creating a new one now.
Phatscotty wrote:Obama appointed energy czars with have said openly they want to see high gas prices, and that low gas prices is not the goal of our energy policy, as well as Obama has said he would bankrupt coal mines and that is what has happened.
Well, if you want to twist things severely, then maybe.
The TRUTH is that gas prices should rise, like any market item. It is in limited supply and we are depending far too heavily. Because the price is kept artificially low, it discourages research and investment in alternatives. Actually, its more than simply keeping the price low.. gas companies have long had actual antagonistic approaches to any real alternatives. This was common knowledge, old news 40 years ago, but somehow seems to have escaped a new generation that seems intent on simply blaming the Democrats, for anything they dislike. (enjoy being a Republican peon much?).
The TRUTH is also that Natural gas, and not Obama are the primary threat to the coal industry -- on pure economic grounds. Natural gas is currently a lot cheaper. Beyond that, coal industry is dirty, is causing us and the world very serious harm. I know you don't believe the climate is changing, so I won't even mention that, but Acid rain, other pollutants are so well documented that even you cannot truly and honestly deny they are happening. The idea of "clean coal" is a dream, and one that is a long way off from reality. Ironically enough, the inflated oil prices are part of why... it is not cost-effective to pursue the more expensive "clean coal" options. Natural gas worsens that part, too.
Phatscotty wrote: Americans who are struggling just like the rest of us have to cope with higher electric bills as a result, and American's have less disposable income as a result, and that is net negative for the economy as a result.
Only partially true, and not really for the reasons you give.
Phatscotty wrote:Obama has completely and totally F'd up the entire Middle East policy over the last 4 years so much so that Britain is telling us to shove it and France is happily aboard. Geopolitics has a direct impact on commodity prices, and oil is especially sensitive. Oil has been around 80-100$ a barrel almost the entire time Obama has been president. Whether or not that price is his direct fault is not the issue, the issue it's it's clear and obvious Obama has not made an impact in the realm of affordable energy. That is net negative for the economy.
LOL
The Mideast got screwed up long before Obama came into office, in large part because we have basically given Israel a free pass, and then catered to whatever oil producing companies we could. The interests were inherently conflicting, and focused on short term cheap oil instead of long term solutions. People in these countries are tired of the bull, tired of us supporting oppressive regimes. Islamic "preachers" come in and tell them the answer is to fight the nasty Americans who want to do away with Islam and, well, we have done little to disprove that opinion as far as many average people are concerned in these countries. THAT is why we are in this mess. Obama has actually made a few strides in that area, though, I think he made Afghanistan worse. I abhor the use of drones, the continuation of the patriot act, and think both of those things weigh heavily on us.
Phatscotty wrote:After the Stimulus plan, the projections for unemployment are supposed to be under 5% right now. Obviously, that is far from the case, and those predicted revenues with taxes maxed at virtual full employment are not going to be rolling in either. Of course, we the taxpayers are left holding the bag on the interest payments for borrowing 800 billion dollars. Another triple negative
The unemployment rate is decreasing and business seems to generally feel it is doing better.
None of that makes up for the fact that the top folks have decided they get to keep more and more of our dollars and need not pay us "peons" much of anything.
The Blame for our poor economy rests solidly with the 1%... actually, not even the full 1%, but a few at the very, very top.
Phatscotty wrote:And then there were the tax increases, which is a direct withdrawal of money from the private economy.
That is not a positive for the economy, not when the economy isn't growing. The economy was supposed to grow, the budget was supposed to be just about balanced by now, but obviously those things did not happen. That's a net negative on the economy too, along with higher future interest payments we owe with the double whammy of receiving less that projected revenues.
LOL
actually, the tax rate for just about everyone, particularly the highest income earners is down from 40 years ago, not up.. and yet, we have far more needs to spend money on. Our infrastructure is crumbling, schools not able to keep up with the international market, and THAT is very much because of this new "ME ONLY" attitude. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You have already eaten the cake.. already benefitted from good roads, education, etc... now its time to pay back.
EXCEPT... too many people would rather just tell the rest of the country to "screw it". And, guess what? There are plenty of other countries more than happy to build up their populations and educate their citizens.
Phatscotty wrote:And last but not least, you really want to make a case that Obamacare all by itself has not caused immense amounts of uncertainty for small business owners over the last few years? Small businesses are over 80% of our economy. The impact of Obamacare on the economy alone will suffice when it comes to direct relation Obama has had on the economy. The most recent CBO reports have shown the new cost of Obamacare to be over 2.6 trillion, far higher (of course) than what it was projected to cost, with more cost increases guaranteed in the future.
LOL.. I see a lot of rhetoric and misunderstandings, quite intentional in many cases. You continue to put out a lot of misinformation on your own. The FACT is that while many people have problems with Obamacare, or at least think they do (often they don't understand what it really means, they just hear the negative rhetoric), they absolutely do NOT want the law reversed.
YET, strangely, all those people who, last election, claimed that they were going to "see what the people say", and "give the people what they want" suddenly forgot their promises when it turned out that MOST people wanted something else.. they DID like the healthcare reform act, at least more than what we had.
Healthcare is not "fixed" a lot of further reform is needed, but the fact that the entire bit wasn't fixed is, in large part, due to Republican and Tea Party tantrums and refusals to accept anything but THEIR personal way. Democracy, Republics are about compromise and negotiation, not acting like 2 year olds wanting ice cream instead of lima beans.
EDIT.. Democrats don't get a free pass here. While Republicans have become the party of tantrums and "no", Democrats have become the party of ineffectiveness.
) Seriously, if you look at a lot of various websites, you see a lot of minor "disinformation". IN some cases, its probably just laziness, creators who just either don't take the time they should or don't really know as much as they think. It might be something small like the claim that evolution is change through natural selection (and therefore ONLY natural selection), that no species has been removed from the endangered species list, that logging was stopped because of environmental protests (as opposed to various economic factors, along with some regulation). The point is that you cannot trust what is on the internet and expecting most adults, never mind kids to weed it out is a bit much. We NEED some check, but have none.
