HATE CRIME?

[Lootifer]

I, like 2dimes, disassociate PC with genuine bigotry/racism/stupidity (That white dude getting killed: Hate crime; Christian being forced to take photos at a gay wedding: intolerance on the part of the gay couple; etc etc).

So fret not, the worlds not completely fucked PS

However I will remind you that not all positive reinforcement (ie "good" bigotry) is a bad thing.

[Phatscotty]

I, like 2dimes, disassociate PC with genuine bigotry/racism/stupidity (That white dude getting killed: Hate crime; Christian being forced to take photos at a gay wedding: intolerance on the part of the gay couple; etc etc).

So fret not, the worlds not completely fucked PS

However I will remind you that not all positive reinforcement (ie "good" bigotry) is a bad thing.

Well, I said PC is BS and part of the problem, but certainly not the main factor. I see what you mean though.

And it was just an observation, not a condemnation of the entire planet. The context I wish to leave it in is this

When people are not held responsible for their actions, not just criminally, but socially, then the actions are perpetuated.

[2dimes]

I still don't know what to think about the original posted story.

Sounds a bit like they chose the victem at random. Regardless, it's a pretty bad thing.

[Phatscotty]

I still don't know what to think about the original posted story.

Sounds a bit like they chose the victem at random. Regardless, it's a pretty bad thing.

they chose a random white person, and the narrative was "cuz they were bored" which implies no motive or racism, yet the guy who pulled the trigger had just tweeted hours earlier about how white people are evil and how he has already knocked out 5 random white people since the Trayvon verdict.

[2dimes]

Well, good job by them, making a horrible thing worse I guess.

[Phatscotty]

haha nah its a generic comment. I ask my friends all the time if they are drunk when they say something odd.

ah k. Well, political correctness narratives promote that only whites can be racist. When the victim of racism or hate crimes is white, PC dictates that it's usually justified because white people deserve it because the minority is a victim and the story gets ignored. [citation needed]

sister of 15-year-old James Edwards, Jr. appeared on CNN's Out Front with Erin Burnett Thursday night, sharing her reaction to the news that her brother is one of the two Oklahoma teens accused of shooting and killing Australian Chris Lane. Rachel Padilla described her "shock" at hearing her younger brother had been charged with murder.

"It's hard to believe, and it's just really taken a toll on me," Padilla told Burnett. Asked about the disturbing messages her brother had been posting on the internet, she said, "I knew he had a Facebook page, but I never looked at it. And it's hard to believe that he will be--that he would even put things on there like that."

In terms of speculation about Edwards' "racial" motivation for committing the alleged crime, Padilla said "I know that he has a lot of caucasian friends with whom he hangs with, and the only way that I would feel that he would say anything racist about anybody is because we have felt racism from some of the people here in the community." Given that Edwards is not believed to be the one who pulled the trigger, Padilla said she doesn't know why he has been "charged with first-degree murder when he wasn't the one who shot and killed the guy."

Padilla admitted that her brother had been in trouble for fighting in the past, but maintained that he's "never been a vicious person" and she doesn't "feel in my heart that he would go to such extents to take an innocent life." She said as far as she knew, he was not associated with any gangs, but she did say he "hung around older people that were affiliated with gangs."

[macbone]

Did you guys link to this story?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/08/14/ ... n-chelsea/

"NYPD: 2 Gay Men Attacked Outside Movie Theater In Chelsea"

They said they were holding hands as they turned onto 24th Street, when they were approached by two other men who yelled anti-gay slurs, according to police. Felenchak, 27, and Notman, 53, were then attacked by two young men, as well as four others who joined in, they added.

“It was six of them against the two of us,” Notman said, “typical of the cowards they are.”

Notman and Felenchak said they were subjected to anti-gay slurs during the attack.

“They were here. They were in the middle of the street. They were like, ‘What are you looking at, you f**? Boom,” Notman told WCBS 880’s Peter Haskell.

Notman told 1010 WINS’ Gene Michaels he caught the attention of the doorman of one of the nearby apartment towers.

“I ran into the lobby to try to get away from them, and then they dispersed once they saw that we were in the lobby and told the guy to call the police,” he said.

The two spent nearly the whole night in the emergency room.

“I was hit with brass knuckles down the side of my face, and I had contusions; had to have an MRI, and Michael received several stitches in his mouth where they punched us,” Notman said.

It's not as bad as the guy who was left brain-dead in New York or the murders, but what the heck is going on in the States? You can argue that these are all isolated incidents, I guess, but it's still greatly troubling.

And I know it's the internet, but so many of the "hate crime" stories are filled with vitriolic racism. Way back in the dark ages, before the advent of the Age of the Internet, I'd hear racist comments from time to time from otherwise sweet, decent people like, say, my high school's head cheerleader or our class valedictorian/president of the student council (and I said some pretty rancid anti-gay crap myself - I wish I could go back in time and slap my 16-year-old self in the face), but the web has apparently given frothing idiots free reign to spew their vile.

[BigBallinStalin]

haha nah its a generic comment. I ask my friends all the time if they are drunk when they say something odd.

ah k. Well, political correctness narratives promote that only whites can be racist. When the victim of racism or hate crimes is white, PC dictates that it's usually justified because white people deserve it because the minority is a victim and the story gets ignored. [citation needed]

sister of 15-year-old James Edwards, Jr. appeared on CNN's Out Front with Erin Burnett Thursday night, sharing her reaction to the news that her brother is one of the two Oklahoma teens accused of shooting and killing Australian Chris Lane. Rachel Padilla described her "shock" at hearing her younger brother had been charged with murder.

"It's hard to believe, and it's just really taken a toll on me," Padilla told Burnett. Asked about the disturbing messages her brother had been posting on the internet, she said, "I knew he had a Facebook page, but I never looked at it. And it's hard to believe that he will be--that he would even put things on there like that."

In terms of speculation about Edwards' "racial" motivation for committing the alleged crime, Padilla said "I know that he has a lot of caucasian friends with whom he hangs with, and the only way that I would feel that he would say anything racist about anybody is because we have felt racism from some of the people here in the community." Given that Edwards is not believed to be the one who pulled the trigger, Padilla said she doesn't know why he has been "charged with first-degree murder when he wasn't the one who shot and killed the guy."

Padilla admitted that her brother had been in trouble for fighting in the past, but maintained that he's "never been a vicious person" and she doesn't "feel in my heart that he would go to such extents to take an innocent life." She said as far as she knew, he was not associated with any gangs, but she did say he "hung around older people that were affiliated with gangs."

So.... those are examples of 'political correctness gone wrong'?

Sure, people make excuses to justify some murder, but how does "PC dictates that it's usually justified because white people deserve it because the minority is a victim and the story gets ignored." It's not political correctness. It's just stupidity, or 'selective racism', where person X can be racist but others shouldn't be.

You make it sound as if there's some Manual of Political Correctness, which is setting the rules for how people excuse racially motivated crimes. There is no manual; there's ignorant people. I don't see how PC can be blamed for any of this.

[Lootifer]

Also it even states in the article that the crime was racially based and that the perps have been labelled as racist...

I dont see political correctness defending these thugs. They are racist murdering retards and the world can see that.

[Agent 86]

haha nah its a generic comment. I ask my friends all the time if they are drunk when they say something odd.

ah k. Well, political correctness narratives promote that only whites can be racist. When the victim of racism or hate crimes is white, PC dictates that it's usually justified because white people deserve it because the minority is a victim and the story gets ignored. [citation needed]

sister of 15-year-old James Edwards, Jr. appeared on CNN's Out Front with Erin Burnett Thursday night, sharing her reaction to the news that her brother is one of the two Oklahoma teens accused of shooting and killing Australian Chris Lane. Rachel Padilla described her "shock" at hearing her younger brother had been charged with murder.

"It's hard to believe, and it's just really taken a toll on me," Padilla told Burnett. Asked about the disturbing messages her brother had been posting on the internet, she said, "I knew he had a Facebook page, but I never looked at it. And it's hard to believe that he will be--that he would even put things on there like that."

In terms of speculation about Edwards' "racial" motivation for committing the alleged crime, Padilla said "I know that he has a lot of caucasian friends with whom he hangs with, and the only way that I would feel that he would say anything racist about anybody is because we have felt racism from some of the people here in the community." Given that Edwards is not believed to be the one who pulled the trigger, Padilla said she doesn't know why he has been "charged with first-degree murder when he wasn't the one who shot and killed the guy."

Padilla admitted that her brother had been in trouble for fighting in the past, but maintained that he's "never been a vicious person" and she doesn't "feel in my heart that he would go to such extents to take an innocent life." She said as far as she knew, he was not associated with any gangs, but she did say he "hung around older people that were affiliated with gangs."

So.... those are examples of 'political correctness gone wrong'?

Sure, people make excuses to justify some murder, but how does "PC dictates that it's usually justified because white people deserve it because the minority is a victim and the story gets ignored." It's not political correctness. It's just stupidity, or 'selective racism', where person X can be racist but others shouldn't be.

You make it sound as if there's some Manual of Political Correctness, which is setting the rules for how people excuse racially motivated crimes. There is no manual; there's ignorant people. I don't see how PC can be blamed for any of this.

This would be true BBS if we could take out all of the hatred in differences and the almighty Media who continue to make it worse. Ignorant people feed off the past and the present media. Can't see that changing in the near future, so this is the PC culture we live with.

Looks like the Zimmerman case is evolving..I don't see much in it at this stage, but he sure has made a name for himself. http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-c ... ories.html

[Lootifer]

So you are saying the media in the US is exercising political correctness to excuse the racist murderers? That is not clear to me (feel free to post more articles, but I prefer non-youtube ones since I cant listen at work).

[Nobunaga]

So you are saying the media in the US is exercising political correctness to excuse the racist murderers? That is not clear to me (feel free to post more articles, but I prefer non-youtube ones since I cant listen at work).

Here's one for you.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... z2eJXkG1V0

[BigBallinStalin]

So you are saying the media in the US is exercising political correctness to excuse the racist murderers? That is not clear to me (feel free to post more articles, but I prefer non-youtube ones since I cant listen at work).

Yeah, I'm also not getting this.

So, it's not political correctness itself that is the problem. Allegedly, PC influences a subculture which enables people to... say and do stupid things which they would've done anyway?

[Lootifer]

So you are saying the media in the US is exercising political correctness to excuse the racist murderers? That is not clear to me (feel free to post more articles, but I prefer non-youtube ones since I cant listen at work).

Here's one for you.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... z2eJXkG1V0

Thats slightly different that what I was getting at.

I agree that the media attention difference between racist white people and racist black people is poor but its pretty easy to understand where it has come from considering the history of the two races (not excusing it, just there's a fairly obvious cause for it).

But what BBS and I are asking is: are the media convincing, or trying to convince anyone, that these guys arent racist? I mean the article PS posted calls them racist; and I see know reason why even the most braindead would not register that these guys are racist (sure they might not view it as bad based on preconcieved cultural notions but thats beside the point).

[Nobunaga]

So you are saying the media in the US is exercising political correctness to excuse the racist murderers? That is not clear to me (feel free to post more articles, but I prefer non-youtube ones since I cant listen at work).

Here's one for you.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... z2eJXkG1V0

Thats slightly different that what I was getting at.

I agree that the media attention difference between racist white people and racist black people is poor but its pretty easy to understand where it has come from considering the history of the two races (not excusing it, just there's a fairly obvious cause for it).

But what BBS and I are asking is: are the media convincing, or trying to convince anyone, that these guys arent racist? I mean the article PS posted calls them racist; and I see know reason why even the most braindead would not register that these guys are racist (sure they might not view it as bad based on preconcieved cultural notions but thats beside the point).

IMO, the media is not trying to actively convince anybody that these people are not racist. They (the big media) simply ignore the stories that don't fit the narrative they're going for.

How many Americans know who Trayvon Martin was? Now how many know who this old, brain-dead white guy is?

[Lootifer]

Yeah and on that point I completely agree.

But who's fault is it? Do you lay the blame with the media companies or the ignorant masses?

[Nobunaga]

Yeah and on that point I completely agree.

But who's fault is it? Do you lay the blame with the media companies or the ignorant masses?

Well, I don't expect most people to pay as much attention as I do, so I don't blame them completely, but certainly they bear some of the blame.

Americans are a great deal more ignorant than they were only ten, fifteen years ago (that is of course just raw opinion).

[BigBallinStalin]

Yeah and on that point I completely agree.

But who's fault is it? Do you lay the blame with the media companies or the ignorant masses?

Well, I don't expect most people to pay as much attention as I do, so I don't blame them completely, but certainly they bear some of the blame.

Americans are a great deal more ignorant than they were only ten, fifteen years ago (that is of course just raw opinion).

It's hard to say. It could be a change in preferences, e.g. less people care about more stories of white people being the victim of hate crimes while more people care for more stories of non-whites being such victims. Or maybe it's sample bias (since mainstream media--assuming you're 'measuring' this accurately--might not be a good enough proxy for the total demand of news stories). Or it could be confirmation bias (i.e. being fixated on only one type of story).

[AndyDufresne]

Americans are a great deal more ignorant than they were only ten, fifteen years ago (that is of course just raw opinion).

I think every generation has said this about the present American society, going back into the last century. I think we're in the negative numbers now!


--Andy

[Lootifer]

I personally lay the blame almost completely on the shoulders of the media companies and their incentives.

Their incentive is profit; not to produce accurate and unbias (or unhyped) dissemination of information. Naturally with this in mind they are going use the information and its delivery in a way which maximises profit. Now it would all be well and dandy if in the long term people actually wanted accurate and unbias information; even in the United States of Cronyism eventually your media would have to come around and start producing the media product that the population wanted.

However humans dont work like that; if I were to make a rational post in the global warming thread about how the uncertainty in the measurements means we have to take a risk based view and there is no right answer, and, right after, Nightstrike was to make a post about how its completely bullshit, has absolutely zero scientific basis, and just a plan for Obama to further convert good wholesome Americans into foaming at the mouth evil libtards, who do you think would get a greater reaction?

Media use the same principle because humans thrive on drama; what was previous a genetic mechanism in which to get us to operate at a high level of concentration is now something that simply results in us furiously typing out outraged responses to forum posts and media information alike.

In other words, humans were always this stupid; the media has just cottened onto it and have optimised their product to take advantage.

[Phatscotty]

Americans are a great deal more ignorant than they were only ten, fifteen years ago (that is of course just raw opinion).

I think every generation has said this about the present American society, going back into the last century. I think we're in the negative numbers now!


--Andy

Cable news has got to count for something!

[BigBallinStalin]

I personally lay the blame almost completely on the shoulders of the media companies and their incentives.

Their incentive is profit; not to produce accurate and unbias (or unhyped) dissemination of information. Naturally with this in mind they are going use the information and its delivery in a way which maximises profit. Now it would all be well and dandy if in the long term people actually wanted accurate and unbias information; even in the United States of Cronyism eventually your media would have to come around and start producing the media product that the population wanted.

However humans dont work like that; if I were to make a rational post in the global warming thread about how the uncertainty in the measurements means we have to take a risk based view and there is no right answer, and, right after, Nightstrike was to make a post about how its completely bullshit, has absolutely zero scientific basis, and just a plan for Obama to further convert good wholesome Americans into foaming at the mouth evil libtards, who do you think would get a greater reaction?

Media use the same principle because humans thrive on drama; what was previous a genetic mechanism in which to get us to operate at a high level of concentration is now something that simply results in us furiously typing out outraged responses to forum posts and media information alike.

In other words, humans were always this stupid; the media has just cottened onto it and have optimised their product to take advantage.

Oh, don't be so dramatic!

[Lootifer]

Also I like how I said I blame media companies. Then go on to explain how its all stupid humans fault for being humans.

Not my best post.

[BigBallinStalin]

It mostly goes back to cognitive bias, and since humans are limited in this way, I wouldn't call them stupid (because most don't know any better). Most are disappointing, that's for sure.

[Gillipig]

Love crimes kill more people than hate crimes. So stop the loving??