All your children belong to us!

[AndyDufresne]

When I took political science, the professor was the head of the Democratic Party of Riverside County, CA. He was constantly quoting people like Mao, Lenin, and Patricia Schroeder to make his points about inequality. There were signs around the area which read, First Baptist Church [of wherever] or United Church Of Christ (or other denominations) "welcome you". He would spend about 5-10 minutes lecturing about how destructive such people and institutions were to society..."those people start wars!!" He literally would play and replay the Vice-Presidential debate between Dan Quayle & Lloyd Bentson where Bentson claimed he was a friend of Jack Kennedy, and piously looked down on Quayle as being no Jack Kennedy. He would then pause the tape (yeah, VHS back then) and remark how the country was so stupid to not have elected Dukakis. His office door had a poster which read, "Russia got rid of all their nukes - why don't we?" He called me into his office near the end of the semester to ask me why I felt it necessary to quote Charles Colson in my term paper..."couldn't you find a legitimate source?"

One of the great things in life was when my friend, Mark, later got hired at that same college to teach in that same classroom around 20 years later. Mark has muscular dystrophy, so sometimes he could not physically make it to class, and I would sub for him. I literally got to stand in the same spot where comrade professor used to teach, and talk about Natural Law, and its implications. Some people told me the guy committed suicide, but I never was able to confirm it.

So Phatscotty would conclude that the professor successfully swayed you to the liberal side of things.

He did use the word comrade. String 'em up.


--Andy

[oVo]

Will this be on the test?

[tzor]

He did use the word comrade. String 'em up.

You know, before the whole cold war thing make us thumb our noses at anything Russian, "comrade in arms" used to be a good compliment.

So let's remember, the only real remaining Commie Pinko Progressives speak SPANISH.

[Phatscotty]

When I took political science, the professor was the head of the Democratic Party of Riverside County, CA. He was constantly quoting people like Mao, Lenin, and Patricia Schroeder to make his points about inequality. There were signs around the area which read, First Baptist Church [of wherever] or United Church Of Christ (or other denominations) "welcome you". He would spend about 5-10 minutes lecturing about how destructive such people and institutions were to society..."those people start wars!!" He literally would play and replay the Vice-Presidential debate between Dan Quayle & Lloyd Bentson where Bentson claimed he was a friend of Jack Kennedy, and piously looked down on Quayle as being no Jack Kennedy. He would then pause the tape (yeah, VHS back then) and remark how the country was so stupid to not have elected Dukakis. His office door had a poster which read, "Russia got rid of all their nukes - why don't we?" He called me into his office near the end of the semester to ask me why I felt it necessary to quote Charles Colson in my term paper..."couldn't you find a legitimate source?"

One of the great things in life was when my friend, Mark, later got hired at that same college to teach in that same classroom around 20 years later. Mark has muscular dystrophy, so sometimes he could not physically make it to class, and I would sub for him. I literally got to stand in the same spot where comrade professor used to teach, and talk about Natural Law, and its implications. Some people told me the guy committed suicide, but I never was able to confirm it.

So Phatscotty would conclude that the professor successfully swayed you to the liberal side of things.

I would have to be arguing a 100% success rate by Liberal professors in order for you to make any sense.

[BigBallinStalin]

The World According to Phatscotty:

(1) Liberal indoctrination happens only when PS thinks it happens.

[thegreekdog]

When I took political science, the professor was the head of the Democratic Party of Riverside County, CA. He was constantly quoting people like Mao, Lenin, and Patricia Schroeder to make his points about inequality. There were signs around the area which read, First Baptist Church [of wherever] or United Church Of Christ (or other denominations) "welcome you". He would spend about 5-10 minutes lecturing about how destructive such people and institutions were to society..."those people start wars!!" He literally would play and replay the Vice-Presidential debate between Dan Quayle & Lloyd Bentson where Bentson claimed he was a friend of Jack Kennedy, and piously looked down on Quayle as being no Jack Kennedy. He would then pause the tape (yeah, VHS back then) and remark how the country was so stupid to not have elected Dukakis. His office door had a poster which read, "Russia got rid of all their nukes - why don't we?" He called me into his office near the end of the semester to ask me why I felt it necessary to quote Charles Colson in my term paper..."couldn't you find a legitimate source?"

One of the great things in life was when my friend, Mark, later got hired at that same college to teach in that same classroom around 20 years later. Mark has muscular dystrophy, so sometimes he could not physically make it to class, and I would sub for him. I literally got to stand in the same spot where comrade professor used to teach, and talk about Natural Law, and its implications. Some people told me the guy committed suicide, but I never was able to confirm it.

So Phatscotty would conclude that the professor successfully swayed you to the liberal side of things.

I would have to be arguing a 100% success rate by Liberal professors in order for you to make any sense.

Right, well, I don't know what success rate you're arguing so you'll have to forgive me.

[john9blue]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

[thegreekdog]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

How big a problem is it? Is a 1% success rate big enough for you devote vast swathes of your life to solving? And by "solving" I don't mean convincing people who have been "turned" liberal back conservative, I mean expending energy lambasting professors and college administrations to change the culture.

[Lootifer]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

Only if students are irrational (i.e. dont punish the professor by walking out/not enrolling)

[mrswdk]

It's a problem if someone's ideological views change while they're at college?

[Phatscotty]

It's a problem if someone's ideological views change while they're at college?

Perhaps this is the problem..

I find myself writing papers in which I haven’t even had time to consider whether I agree with my thesis, because all of the reading is on one side of the political spectrum. In fact, in many cases, I am not really sure what the spectrum of opinion on a topic is, because I have only been exposed to a single part of it.

There are some who argue that only getting one side of the story has no impact, or something like that doesn't mean that is the story they take as gospel from their professors and activites, but I hope you aren't one of them.

[john9blue]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

How big a problem is it? Is a 1% success rate big enough for you devote vast swathes of your life to solving? And by "solving" I don't mean convincing people who have been "turned" liberal back conservative, I mean expending energy lambasting professors and college administrations to change the culture.

if it bothered me enough, and i could actually effect meaningful change, then yes, it would be worth it, even with a 1% success rate. that's still thousands of students per year. if you could influence the political beliefs of thousands of people per year, then i'm sure you do it too.

personally i think it's more than just the professors, and i'm not really sure that the problem can be solved so easily, so i'm not especially concerned with it. there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

[Phatscotty]

When I took political science, the professor was the head of the Democratic Party of Riverside County, CA. He was constantly quoting people like Mao, Lenin, and Patricia Schroeder to make his points about inequality. There were signs around the area which read, First Baptist Church [of wherever] or United Church Of Christ (or other denominations) "welcome you". He would spend about 5-10 minutes lecturing about how destructive such people and institutions were to society..."those people start wars!!" He literally would play and replay the Vice-Presidential debate between Dan Quayle & Lloyd Bentson where Bentson claimed he was a friend of Jack Kennedy, and piously looked down on Quayle as being no Jack Kennedy. He would then pause the tape (yeah, VHS back then) and remark how the country was so stupid to not have elected Dukakis. His office door had a poster which read, "Russia got rid of all their nukes - why don't we?" He called me into his office near the end of the semester to ask me why I felt it necessary to quote Charles Colson in my term paper..."couldn't you find a legitimate source?"

One of the great things in life was when my friend, Mark, later got hired at that same college to teach in that same classroom around 20 years later. Mark has muscular dystrophy, so sometimes he could not physically make it to class, and I would sub for him. I literally got to stand in the same spot where comrade professor used to teach, and talk about Natural Law, and its implications. Some people told me the guy committed suicide, but I never was able to confirm it.

So Phatscotty would conclude that the professor successfully swayed you to the liberal side of things.

I would have to be arguing a 100% success rate by Liberal professors in order for you to make any sense.

Right, well, I don't know what success rate you're arguing so you'll have to forgive me.

Disagreeing with snark is one thing, but to defend the most Liberal institution in America as somehow balanced in impact and influence or not a factor at all on the most impressionable minds in existence is a whole other thing.

[mrswdk]

Perhaps the unnamed student in your quote should take the time to research the counter-argument properly, rather than simply basing their essay entirely on course handouts.

I had a lecturer who spent an entire year teaching me from an anti-globalisation, anti-neoliberal perspective (giving us readings and inviting guest speakers that supported his self-confessed Marxist ideology), but while he gave me a fresh perspective he certainly didn't turn me into an Occupy hippy. The problem in your anecdote is that the student is lazy and intellectually incurious.

[Phatscotty]

Perhaps the unnamed student in your quote should take the time to research the counter-argument properly, rather than simply basing their essay entirely on course handouts.

I had a lecturer who spent an entire year teaching me from an anti-globalisation, anti-neoliberal perspective (giving us readings and inviting guest speakers that supported his self-confessed Marxist ideology), but while he gave me a fresh perspective he certainly didn't turn me into an Occupy hippy. The problem in your anecdote is that the student is lazy and intellectually incurious.

Jake Goldwasser is a Columbia College senior majoring in Middle Eastern, South Asian, and African studies.
http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2013/1 ... ght-answer

There's no right answer

I am not conservative by any stretch of the imagination. Every fall break I have gone to campaign for liberal causes, and as an underclassman I was on the board of the Columbia University Democrats. But the more time I spend in class the more sympathy I have for conservatives, not necessarily for their beliefs, but for the position they have in public discourse at Columbia. My perspective may be skewed since I am a Middle Eastern studies major, but in my classes it is taken for granted that the set of liberal positions is a list of objective truths. I don’t think it is funny when professors crack jokes about the IQs of Republicans. It makes it more difficult to have genuine political discussions at best, and it perpetuates the stereotype of the Ivy League as a circle-jerk of liberalism at worst.

In Leo Schwartz’s last column, he talks about how once we leave Columbia we will leave the domain of constant self-congratulation and enter a world that is skeptical of our institution. It is not that professors collect empirical evidence to support liberal claims that makes the world sneer at places like Columbia. It is the self-righteous attitude, the certainty of conviction that comes from an institution whose purpose is to foster doubt and balanced discourse and critical thinking. I find myself writing papers in which I haven’t even had time to consider whether I agree with my thesis, because all of the reading is on one side of the political spectrum. In fact, in many cases, I am not really sure what the spectrum of opinion on a topic is, because I have only been exposed to a single part of it. I understand that universities are places where professors can espouse their beliefs. I recognize that tenure is meant to protect professors’ ability to maintain opinion. But it should not be the case that students feel uncomfortable voicing dissent because of the tone a professor has set.

In one of my classes, the token conservative occasionally responds to the professor’s matter-of-fact claims by rehashing basic tenets of conservative ideology. Everyone in the class rolls his or her eyes, but I have come to appreciate it because it is nice to at least be aware that there are differing opinions. Opinions really aren’t of much value without at least the pretense of deviation from them. In my classes almost nobody makes conservative comments, which leads me to wonder whether Columbia actually has no conservatives or whether they don’t feel comfortable enough discussing their opinions in public. I don’t know which is more disturbing. I think we should respect whatever diversity of opinion we have on campus instead of making jokes about how President Bush couldn’t pronounce “nuclear” properly.

I don’t mind listening to lectures about the military industrial complex or the destruction that capitalism has caused. I do mind realizing in the first lecture that my professor has an agenda so apparent that it stifles the ability of the student to make judgments or suppresses his or her comfort when it comes to bringing up issues.

That being said, I have had some professors whose lectures manage to communicate opinion without condescension. I have had classes with respectful discussions where everyone felt comfortable sharing opinions, so long as they were supported by evidence—it is possible. I am not saying professors cannot have opinions. I am not saying that an objective truth within a field is unimaginable, but I do think it is the responsibility of academics to foster a tone that is conducive to learning and—just as important—to debate.

[mrswdk]

Your column supports what I said... A minority of partisan professors failed to indoctrinate the guy in your story, just as mine failed to indoctrinate me. There's probably no need to dust off the pitchforks.

Prove that liberal professors are any more successful at indoctrinating people than conservative media outlets. Indeed, prove that either are successful.

[Phatscotty]

Your column supports what I said... A minority of partisan professors failed to indoctrinate the guy in your story, just as mine failed to indoctrinate me. There's probably no need to dust off the pitchforks.

Prove that liberal professors are any more successful at indoctrinating people than conservative media outlets. Indeed, prove that either are successful.

Okay, so you are at least aware that the attempt was made. Can you give any comments on the other 200 students every semester, year after year after year, that the same attempts are made on?

Sorry but I'm not going to compare a University to a cable spews network.

[Metsfanmax]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

How big a problem is it? Is a 1% success rate big enough for you devote vast swathes of your life to solving? And by "solving" I don't mean convincing people who have been "turned" liberal back conservative, I mean expending energy lambasting professors and college administrations to change the culture.

if it bothered me enough, and i could actually effect meaningful change, then yes, it would be worth it, even with a 1% success rate. that's still thousands of students per year. if you could influence the political beliefs of thousands of people per year, then i'm sure you do it too.

personally i think it's more than just the professors, and i'm not really sure that the problem can be solved so easily, so i'm not especially concerned with it. there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

What if the 'success' rate was about equal between conservative professors and liberal professors? Would you still care about it?

[mrswdk]

Your column supports what I said... A minority of partisan professors failed to indoctrinate the guy in your story, just as mine failed to indoctrinate me. There's probably no need to dust off the pitchforks.

Prove that liberal professors are any more successful at indoctrinating people than conservative media outlets. Indeed, prove that either are successful.

Okay, so you are at least aware that the attempt was made. Can you give any comments on the other 200 students every semester, year after year after year, that the same attempts are made on?

Sorry but I'm not going to compare a University to a cable spews network.

I see no evidence that hordes off innocent young things are being tricked into following The Liberal Agenda by college professors. Just an anecdote about a couple of professors mouthing off in class. If years and years of compulsory Marxism classes are failing to brainwash Chinese kids into loving the CCP then I doubt two hours a week of some saggy old bitch laughing at Republicans is going to turn anyone into a foaming-at-the-mouth partisan Democrat.

[_sabotage_]

Last year as part of my political science class, we were asked to compare the spectrum on US military spending. We were given two supposedly divergent opinions, both commissioned by the CFR called Pull Back and lean forward.

Pull Back suggested a 10% cut of military spending over the next ten years, solely on military personnel; Lean Forward proposed the maintaining spending at current levels.

The articles appeared in the same CFR issue, Lean Forward as the rebuttal piece. Some of the highlights of Pull Back: a 10% in military spending over 10 years as a way of winding down two wars would put the US at risk which it otherwise wouldn't really be in from 1. Nukes 2. Terrorists. 3. a loss of allies 4. Economic loss. And this guy was the proponent! Hey guys, how about we cut spending at 1% a year, we'll be friendless, poor, and exposed to attack big and small? What? No? OK.

Hey wife, there's a party happening: the best food in town, drinks and a nurse supervised kids section all free this evening, but let's stay at home cuz our kid's being fussy and hyperactive and the gas to get there is money that we could or could not spend. What? Go? OK.

I wrote: This is an obvious attempt by the marketing wing of the military-industrial complex to minimize the spectrum of debate in defense spending to their own agenda. I got a D-. The first grade was an F, but they crossed it out. It was worth 40% of my overall grade. The comment: you fail to understand the papers, apparently the guy was not being a patsy.



Sun Tzu: War is not to be entered into lightly; a standing army will bankrupt the nation and burden the citizenry with taxes.

It was during this course that I compared the Crown to the First Nations as are the CCP to the Tibetans. People actually screamed at me. No, they are inhumane, we are Canadian!

[john9blue]

What if the 'success' rate was about equal between conservative professors and liberal professors? Would you still care about it?

firstly, it would still have an overall liberal bias since there are so few conservative professors, and secondly, it would be a problem regardless of bias, since professors aren't supposed to explicitly influence their students' political beliefs (except for MAYBE political science professors).

although i have to admit that i would probably be happy if colleges turned people into constitutional libertarians...

[Phatscotty]

Your column supports what I said... A minority of partisan professors failed to indoctrinate the guy in your story, just as mine failed to indoctrinate me. There's probably no need to dust off the pitchforks.

Prove that liberal professors are any more successful at indoctrinating people than conservative media outlets. Indeed, prove that either are successful.

Okay, so you are at least aware that the attempt was made. Can you give any comments on the other 200 students every semester, year after year after year, that the same attempts are made on?

Sorry but I'm not going to compare a University to a cable spews network.

I see no evidence that hordes off innocent young things are being tricked into following The Liberal Agenda by college professors. Just an anecdote about a couple of professors mouthing off in class. If years and years of compulsory Marxism classes are failing to brainwash Chinese kids into loving the CCP then I doubt two hours a week of some saggy old bitch laughing at Republicans is going to turn anyone into a foaming-at-the-mouth partisan Democrat.

A couple professors? I will grant that you are new here or haven't been around, but "anecdotes" of liberal professors bullying students have been posted here on blast for a few years now. It's more than a couple.

"A couple professors" doesn't even fully describe my own personal experience in 2 separate colleges.

You see no evidence, then I am wondering how hard you looked for some, or did you even attempt to look for some? I'm not asking you to google something that agrees with you (i can do that) I want to know about your attempt to get some evidence. How did you come to your conclusion

[mrswdk]

You're the one stating that liberal professors are brainwashing their students en masse. The onus is on you to prove it, which you cannot do by simply reposting anecdotes about people's dumb professors. It's amusing, but it's no basis for coming to any kind of conclusion.

[Phatscotty]

You're the one stating that liberal professors are brainwashing their students en masse. The onus is on you to prove it, which you cannot do by simply reposting anecdotes about people's dumb professors. It's amusing, but it's no basis for coming to any kind of conclusion.

there is no way to prove it. It's impossible. We can only talk about to what degree it exists.

I am sharing examples en masse. You should be able to admit that being able to present example is at least better than not being able to present any examples. Can you show some examples, even if they are only anecdotal, to support your opinion


Just curious though, you said you have had indoctrination attempts on you (so that is one piece of information you can use). But where do you get your opinion about everyone else from, or why do you believe it does not happen en masse. How many colleges have you experienced

[Metsfanmax]

You're the one stating that liberal professors are brainwashing their students en masse. The onus is on you to prove it, which you cannot do by simply reposting anecdotes about people's dumb professors. It's amusing, but it's no basis for coming to any kind of conclusion.

there is no way to prove it. It's impossible. We can only talk about to what degree it exists.

I am sharing examples en masse. You should be able to admit that being able to present example is at least better than not being able to present any examples. Can you show some examples, even if they are only anecdotal, to support your opinion

You haven't actually provided a single example of a person who has admitted that their political beliefs have become substantially more liberal as a result of their college professors, as far as I am aware.