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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:33 am

I already gave the example of China. Every public school student in China has 'Marxism' lessons, which basically amount to lectures on how great the CCP is. My friend who has been teaching Chinese university students for 8 years tells me that whenever his Chinese students hear the word 'Marxism' they completely zone out, bored from the years of attempted brainwashing they received (and rejected) at school. If even the Chinese government isn't able to prescribe ideology then I highly doubt that someone's saggy old Econs professor can.

Even your own evidence contradicts the point you are trying to make. Every anecdote I've read in this thread has shown people rejecting their lecturer's attempts to influence their ideology.
Last edited by mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:34 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:You're the one stating that liberal professors are brainwashing their students en masse. The onus is on you to prove it, which you cannot do by simply reposting anecdotes about people's dumb professors. It's amusing, but it's no basis for coming to any kind of conclusion.


there is no way to prove it. It's impossible. We can only talk about to what degree it exists.

I am sharing examples en masse. You should be able to admit that being able to present example is at least better than not being able to present any examples. Can you show some examples, even if they are only anecdotal, to support your opinion


You haven't actually provided a single example of a person who has admitted that their political beliefs have become substantially more liberal as a result of their college professors, as far as I am aware.


Did you miss Niel Gross's study? Or you can read the NYTimes article that you shared again that concluded word for word that college makes students more Liberal. Now, is that a result of colleges classrooms factually being dominated by Liberals professors, or is it a result of a Liberal environment students attend for years at a time.....likewise, you have not provided a single example of how those things have zero impact or influence. Common sense however would dictate that there is an inescapable Liberal influence; when Liberalism dominates and environment, dominate the classrooms with a minimum 4-1 presence and a maximim 49-1 presence, absolutely dominate the teachers unions and the education lobby, have Howard Zinn in charge of writing all the text books.....NOOOOOOOOOOO, THERE IS NO IMPACT WHATSOEVER!

I do however understand how you can sum that up as 'normal'
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:51 am

Right now, it's easiest for me to just play the Phatscotty card* and say that since you went on a massive rant instead of actually coming up with a single example of a real person to support your claim, that you are completely making this up. If this problem really existed, surely you could find one person who admits to having become a liberal because of what their professors thought?

*I think that your standard of preferring anecdotal evidence to statistical evidence is inane, but I could at least tolerate it if you were being consistent. But if you switch to arguing for statistical evidence (nevermind the fact that you are wrong about the findings of the studies, as was discussed earlier in the thread) when the anecdotal evidence is against you, then you are just being completely disingenuous. This is how these last few posts went:

mrswdk: The statistical evidence provides that there is no impact of liberal professors on the political beliefs of their students.
Phatscotty: Real examples matter more than statistical evidence.
Metsfanmax: You haven't provided a single real example.
Phatscotty: The statistical evidence proves that an example must be out there.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:06 am

Suspicions Confirmed: Academia Shutting Out Conservative Professors

Conservatives have long suspected there is discrimination against conservative professors in academia, and now there is evidence to prove it. Sociology professor Neil Gross, a self-described liberal, reveals the results of surveys showing this bias in his new book, Why Professors are Liberal and Why do Conservatives Care?

Sociologist George Yancy asked professors if they would be more or less likely to hire someone if they were a Republican, evangelical or fundamentalist. Three-quarters said political affiliation would not affect their hiring decision. But the one-quarter that did say it would influence their decision virtually all said they would favor a Democrat over a Republican. Almost half of the sociology professors surveyed said they would look unfavorably upon evangelicals and fundamentalists trying to get a job in their department!

In a 2005 survey, researcher Gary Tobin asked professors how favorably or unfavorably they felt about various religious groups. Fifty-three percent of academics responded that they regard evangelicals unfavorably. The next highest unfavorable rating was 33 percent regarding Mormons.

Professor Gross performed his own ā€œaudit study,ā€ sending in fake applications to upper academia at universities around the country. One set of applicants, the control group, had nothing political listed on their resumes. The other two sets of applicants indicated they had either worked on the McCain or Obama 2008 presidential campaigns. He found, ā€œOn average, the DGSs (directors of graduate studies) responded less frequently, more slowly, and less enthusiastically to the conservative applicant.ā€

The average professor is three times as liberal as the average American, and academia is even more liberal now than it was in the 1960s. Gross provides evidence indicating that feminism greatly increased the drift of college faculty to the left, in every field except engineering. Today, 63 percent of female academics describe themselves as feminists. Seventy-three percent of academics describe themselves as moderates, liberals or radical leftists. Gross admits, ā€œā€¦it would be foolish for anyone with truly antifeminist sensibilities to become a sociologist,ā€ due to how liberal that field has become. The Sex and Gender Section is the second largest section in the American Sociological Association. New departments have emerged like Women’s Studies where conservatives would not even bother applying.

Gross’s thesis is that conservatives self-select other professions, independently choosing not to become professors because academia is so liberal. But this sidesteps the clear evidence Gross provides revealing faculty bias in hiring. Gross cites, yet ignores, a study which found that seven percent of conservative academics report having been the victim of political discrimination. Conservative professor Mary Grabar debunks Gross’s thesis, publishing essays from six white male professors who have been blocked out of higher academia, in her new book, Exiled: Stories From Conservative and Moderate Professors Who Have Been Ridiculed, Ostracized, Marginalized, Demonized and Frozen Out. Most of them cannot obtain well-paying full-time work at four-year institutions, and instead are relegated to ā€œperpetual adjunct status, teaching twice as many classes as the average course load, for wages that work out to be less than minimum wage.ā€

In the second half of Gross’s book, he tries to understand why conservatives care about this bias. Besides the fact that it is unfair to conservatives who want to become professors, the obvious answer is because many professors insert their political biases into their grading and teaching. Gross correctly answers this question on page three in his book’s Introduction and should have stopped there, ā€œStick an impressionable twenty-year old in a classroom for fifteen weeks with a charismatic instructor who makes the case that conservatives are heartless or deluded and that the United States has evil designs, and the student is likely to veer left.ā€ Gross interviewed professors on whether they engage in political indoctrination, or ā€œcritical pedagogy.ā€ Two of fifty-seven professors he interviewed fully admitted they were guilty of it.

To his credit, Gross has attempted to put some semblance of fairness into his book, by daring to expose real biases against conservative professors. And for that he was threatened by the very liberal establishment he is a part of. As a result of his audit study, ā€œTwo complained to my institutional review board, and one threatened legal action if his case was not removed from our data set (it was).ā€ It is a sad day for academia when the left is not only shutting down conservatives, but also their own who are speaking up about the suppression of free speech and the free flow of ideas at the universities.


http://townhall.com/columnists/rachelal ... /page/full

So, according to Gross and his study, as far as a professor who will straight up admit they are straight up trying to indoctrinate students, is about 3.5%. One has to assume it's higher than that, probably much higher.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:48 am

Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:36 am

mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


You might want to check the bolded part. I'm just showing it as it happens, watching people deny it is happening.

How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?

Where did you go to school?

How would you describe what is happening in this video
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby chang50 on Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:32 am

Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


You might want to check the bolded part. I'm just showing it as it happens, watching people deny it is happening.

How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?

Where did you go to school?

How would you describe what is happening in this video


Don't look much like college age students to me...the title of this thread is,'share your experience of Liberal professors in college',is it not?Btw back in the UK when I was a similiar age to the kids in this video,1962-3,all the bias was conservative with a small 'c',as well as Conserative with a large 'C'.If the pendulum has swung a bit to the left so much the better say I,that was not a golden age.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:56 am

Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?


You are really going to say that many thousands of students are being converted this way every year, but you can't find an example of this....not even a single one of them?
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:12 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?


You are really going to say that many thousands of students are being converted this way every year, but you can't find an example of this....not even a single one of them?


that's why your thingy doesn't work. There only needs to be one for me to be right, there only needs to be one for you to be wrong. GL

But let's stop and look where we are at in this...."Yeah, well so what the Universities are dominated by Liberals and they try to indoctrinate students.....but there is no scientific proof that it works on a single one of them, so there!"

There is also another segment I'm pretty sure yall haven't considered. The students who do not know what a Republican is or what a Democrat is, or do not know who the vice president is or that we are a Republic. All they know is that Matt Damon is political and stuff, and George Clooney too, and there was a lot of positive buzz about Obama in their middle school and high school from all their teachers who are members of the teachers union which gets a lot of money for Obama. Sure, this segment is not brainwashed per say, they are just 'activated'.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:14 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?


You are really going to say that many thousands of students are being converted this way every year, but you can't find an example of this....not even a single one of them?


that's why your thingy doesn't work. There only needs to be one for me to be right, there only needs to be one for you to be wrong. GL


And yet you have failed to provide a single example. GG
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:18 pm

I've posted tons of examples. just because you ignore them does not mean they do not exist.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:24 pm

Seeing as the Chinese government is unable to ideologically brainwash tens of millions of impressionable children each year - even despite a borderline monopoly on information flow and ideological education - then you're going to have to try a bit harder to demonstrate that American college students are being converted by their professors. Based on the anecdotes in this thread (which all show people failing to be influenced), the reams of academic articles on information bias and the population of China, institutions seem to have extremely limited potential to influence people's beliefs.

Maybe you have some special insight that you have yet to share with us though.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:26 pm

Good for China....

Funny how 'beliefs' is interchanged with 'positions' which can be 'learned' but there is no way possible any of that can be learned at an institute for higher learning. There is just no way
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:30 pm

chang50 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


You might want to check the bolded part. I'm just showing it as it happens, watching people deny it is happening.

How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?

Where did you go to school?

How would you describe what is happening in this video


Don't look much like college age students to me...the title of this thread is,'share your experience of Liberal professors in college',is it not?Btw back in the UK when I was a similiar age to the kids in this video,1962-3,all the bias was conservative with a small 'c',as well as Conserative with a large 'C'.If the pendulum has swung a bit to the left so much the better say I,that was not a golden age.


I wasn't asking about college age students, I was asking for his response to see how he would describe the situation.

We have enough blind apologists and knee jerk reaction defenses here already. (not cuz the theory about Liberalism in Universities is true tho...noooooooooo)
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:32 pm

I guess you never picked up a book other than the ones your professors told you to read, huh?
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:34 pm

mrswdk wrote:I guess you never picked up a book other than the ones your professors told you to read, huh?




Nope, I have never picked up a book. Guess you win based on that

Why are you in this discussion? Did you even go to school in America? Cuz if all there is here getting mad is Communists and Marxists, a debate isn't really going to get very far
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:38 pm

I never said you've never picked up a book. Reading comprehension fail...

No, I've never been educated in America, neither am I a Marxist or Communist (lol). Try again.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:39 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
mrswdk wrote:Whether or not they are trying to is not the argument. Whether or not they are succeeding is what is important. There is plenty of hard evidence that suggests that a professor would not be able to sway his students' ideology. This thread has also collected plenty of anecdotes that refute the claim that professors are influencing their students' ideologies. Can you provide any evidence to the contrary, or are you just clinging on for the sake of it?


How could you know if they are succeeding or not is what I want to know. You are really going to say that out of 25-40 students, hour after hour after hour after hour after hour.....not even a single one of them?


You are really going to say that many thousands of students are being converted this way every year, but you can't find an example of this....not even a single one of them?


that's why your thingy doesn't work. There only needs to be one for me to be right, there only needs to be one for you to be wrong. GL


And yet you have failed to provide a single example.


...Others might say it's called 'getting away with it'.....

And ya know what else, I think deep down you know it's true, and you are happy that the professors are bullying students (not persuading them) and you are happy that students are trained to hate Republicans and you are happy that students are kept in the dark about Conservatism on campuses and I think you are smiling as you read this, and you relic knowing that it's impossible to prove what you keep asking for proof of, short of a student coming out and saying "Duh, I was lied to in college and fed a bunch of Liberal BS, but now I woke up" Well, I know hundreds of people like that in my own personal life, but they did not write an essay on it or make a youtube video for me to show you here, so you go ahead and keep pretending they don't exist, but that is a lie
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:46 pm

So a lack of evidence is proof that they're 'getting away with it'? :lol:
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:46 pm

and I ask about this video, becuase I want to know what YOU THINK the teacher is trying to accomplish by doing this. I don't care what their age is or where it is or who it is, I want to hear what you think is going on here, if that is not too big a challenge. What do YOU call this

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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:49 pm

I can't access YouTube so I have no idea.

I'm guessing it doesn't show a teacher successfully converting students into hardcore liberals though.
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:52 pm

mrswdk wrote:I can't access YouTube so I have no idea.

I'm guessing it doesn't show a teacher successfully converting students into hardcore liberals though.


not even close. It shows a teacher successfully having extremely young students memorize high praises to a hardcore Progressive (even worse)
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Progressive Professors in Coll

Postby mrswdk on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:03 pm

Okay. I learned the Lord's Prayer in primary school (I still remember it today) and a load of stories about God and Jesus but I'm still not a Christian.

Nice change of goalposts though. So what's a 'progressive' in Phatworld?
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Re: Share Your Experiences of Liberal Professors in College

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:25 am

Phatscotty wrote:not even close. It shows a teacher successfully having extremely young students memorize high praises to a hardcore Progressive (even worse)


Hardcore progressive? Surely you don't mean the current President of the United States.
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