_sabotage_ wrote:The gist of it: Saul wrote that man could only reach God through Jesus alone and not through obeying his laws.
Jesus stated on several occasions: He who hears the word of God and obeys is my brother and sister. Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. I have not come to destroy the laws but to fulfill them.
If we take what Jesus actually said from the gospels in the New Testament and compare them with other works that were circulating at the time, they make a lot more sense than comparing the text incorporated in the Bible written by Paul/Saul. Paul was the one who said women could not preach, not Jesus and if we take the other works as credible, he made no distinction between men and women. Where did Paul's morbid fear of women come from? Certainly not from anything said or done by Jesus. Saul was an agent of the Pharisees who restricted priesthood to men, he was also a Roman. As the leading "Christian" scribe writing for the Romans, it was his ideas and the works that corresponded to them which later were accepted as gospel, and used to dispel unrest of what the Romans perceived to be a key problem of their day, the rising strength of women in civil affairs.
Throughout his writings we feel his interpretation and his decree to the people, not that of Jesus. The very book that we have and the actions of the Church to suppress other works and how the Church has behaved over the last couple thousand years is through his guidance and not that of Jesus. From the stance on homosexuality to the place of women in society to what Jesus said or meant. He was more or less the organizer, editor, purveyor and general magic ball reader for modern day Christianity.
Saul in short took spirituality, dismissed any rules that had been attached, removed spirituality and then asserted his own new set of rules.
Jesus also said that: I am the Way the Truth and the Life; NO man cometh to the Father but by me. John 14:6
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
So how is the bolded contradictory?
Also You've apparently never read Rom. 5.
Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Also if you want the laws view on homosexuality.... :
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
I'm also laughing over this part in italics.....
Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
Also they were not forbidden in partaking of spiritual gifts:
1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
The only thing asked was to keep silence in the church.
Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Which I could further elaborate on but it would be slightly lengthy.
