men, women, social historians a question:

[Phatscotty]

When?... When feminism decided to scrap every gender role except for the ones that favour women.
Just kidding.
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with feminism where it's necessary, but when you hear stories of women being whipped and beaten for voting or driving in some countries, and then you hear feminists complaining about their circumstances in 1st world countries, it does make you cringe a little.

bestill my heart

[Anarkistsdream]

'ugly' was one of the words in my google search. Twas intentional

Wow... way to be unbiased and not a fat fucking piece of shit with a heavily undbalanced view of life.

[mrswdk]

Tampons are on Aisle 5, anarkist.

[Anarkistsdream]

Tampons are on Aisle 5, anarkist.

Well I guess you better start sweeping then.

[Phatscotty]

'ugly' was one of the words in my google search. Twas intentional

Wow... way to be unbiased and not a fat fucking piece of shit with a heavily undbalanced view of life.

what, are you demanding I look for a beautiful picture? Are you not biased against anything? You realize a feminazi would want to smash your beans and take everything you have to make up for past grievances? We are talking about feminazi's here, and despite your unbiased profanity laced tirade, I have only been talking about Sandra Fluke. You realize the topic matter is already about a biased and sexist perople? I know right, how dare I not be polite to a biased person who hates me just based on my sex, even though I never met her. Why in the world would you defend that?

Turn your PC card in, you don't even know how to use it right

[Anarkistsdream]

'ugly' was one of the words in my google search. Twas intentional

Wow... way to be unbiased and not a fat fucking piece of shit with a heavily undbalanced view of life.

what, are you demanding I look for a beautiful picture? Are you not biased against anything? You realize a feminazi would want to smash your beans and take everything you have to make up for past grievances? We are talking about feminazi's here, and despite your unbiased profanity laced tirade, I have only been talking about Sandra Fluke. You realize the topic matter is already about a biased and sexist perople? I know right, how dare I not be polite to a biased person who hates me just based on my sex, even though I never met her. Why in the world would you defend that?

Turn your PC card in, you don't even know how to use it right

If the world was filled with only those who said "Do unto others what is done unto you" and no one who said "Do unto others what you wish done to you," then maybe you wouldn't sojnd like an asshole. But you have to be better than the losers... Like I am to you!

Have a good night, nazi.

[Phatscotty]

'ugly' was one of the words in my google search. Twas intentional

Wow... way to be unbiased and not a fat fucking piece of shit with a heavily undbalanced view of life.

what, are you demanding I look for a beautiful picture? Are you not biased against anything? You realize a feminazi would want to smash your beans and take everything you have to make up for past grievances? We are talking about feminazi's here, and despite your unbiased profanity laced tirade, I have only been talking about Sandra Fluke. You realize the topic matter is already about a biased and sexist perople? I know right, how dare I not be polite to a biased person who hates me just based on my sex, even though I never met her. Why in the world would you defend that?

Turn your PC card in, you don't even know how to use it right

If the world was filled with only those who said "Do unto others what is done unto you" and no one who said "Do unto others what you wish done to you," then maybe you wouldn't sojnd like an asshole. But you have to be better than the losers... Like I am to you!

Have a good night, nazi.

You get all that from my opinion that Sandra Fluke is ugly? typical vanishing act after total dodgage....you don't even know what the rest of my google search was. One man's beast is another man's beauty....she's all yours!

Let me paraphrase Anarkist..."If only everyone would do what I say, and those who don't are Nazi's" And yeah, the one using the profanity and making the attacks and calling names not even knowing what they are talking about is usually the good person.

Goodnight

[Commander62890]

Certainly there are many different kinds of feminism, and all sects must be careful not to fall into matriarchy (which implies inequality). But no type is by necessity matriarchal, even the radical feminism brilliantly elucidated by Saxi (which involves the rejection of the state because it is too deeply implicated in gender roles/patriarchy, and the formation of horizontal, network-based forms of communication). I would imagine liberal feminism to be the most common type in America, in the absence of a socialist alternative.

If a feminist is arguing for inequality between the sexes, the (s)he is no longer just a feminist. Just be careful not to confuse radical feminism and matriarchy; just because someone believes that patriarchy is so deeply embedded in society that the levers of power must be dismantled doesn't mean one is arguing for inequality of any sort.

I see your point that there are those who take feminism too far, and cross over into matriarchy. But I see it as happening on a relatively small scale, and only in the Western world. On a global scale, patriarchy and violence against women is still an issue.

[Metsfanmax]

Just like Mets, I am a feminist.

i don't think you're quite like mets ITT. he just posts stupid images that make baseless claims.

You only have a sample size of one, that's a premature assessment.

Oh, wait...



Dammit.

[mrswdk]

The UN recently did a survey and found that Asian men love rape, especially when committing it against their wives or girlfriends.

[Phatscotty]

The UN recently did a survey and found that Asian men love rape, especially when committing it against their wives or girlfriends.

They some freaks yo!

[Phatscotty]

that's a terribly crude image/comparison that rather cheapens the issue. imo

why

[Phatscotty]

What rights/opportunities do women not have that men do? (just a simple question). I would like to consider them and I know you won't leave anything out.

[Phatscotty]

And what are the values and virtues of modern day Feminism (anyone). Are they different in other countries?

[john9blue]

Just like Mets, I am a feminist.

i don't think you're quite like mets ITT. he just posts stupid images that make baseless claims.

You only have a sample size of one, that's a premature assessment.

Oh, wait...



Dammit.

looking back, i was wrong to use the plural "images", but you made it all better anyway <3

[Phatscotty]

Just like Mets, I am a feminist.

i don't think you're quite like mets ITT. he just posts stupid images that make baseless claims.

You only have a sample size of one, that's a premature assessment.

Oh, wait...



Dammit.

looking back, i was wrong to use the plural "images", but you made it all better anyway <3

Why does that image even exist? Mets may be playing along, but just the fact that someone was serious and actually made that is disturbing.

[Lootifer]

And what are the values and virtues of modern day Feminism (anyone). Are they different in other countries?

There's no single definition, is a spectrum of various attitudes ranging from extreme positive affirmation through to simply being recognised as equals when the only difference between two people is gender.

Your single denouncment of feminism because of anecdotal cases like Ms. Fluke is far too much of a broad brush attitude.

Sure I cringe at some of what comes out of the more volatile/extreme, but on the flipside there is still a non-zero amount of inequality apparent in "western" (see: NZ, AUS, UK, US, etc) countries, especially in relation to things like pay and employment opportunities.

[Phatscotty]

And what are the values and virtues of modern day Feminism (anyone). Are they different in other countries?

There's no single definition, is a spectrum of various attitudes ranging from extreme positive affirmation through to simply being recognised as equals when the only difference between two people is gender.

Your single denouncment of feminism because of anecdotal cases like Ms. Fluke is far too much of a broad brush attitude.

Sure I cringe at some of what comes out of the more volatile/extreme, but on the flipside there is still a non-zero amount of inequality apparent in "western" (see: NZ, AUS, UK, US, etc) countries, especially in relation to things like pay and employment opportunities.

I wasn't painting anything, just showing an example to put a face with it that many might be familiar with. I never claimed it was more than one example.

Yeah I have been looking into it for the last 30 minutes, lots of things came up as far as values, like commitment(?), sensitivity (?), feelings (?) As far as simply being equals, I have never heard in my life anyone say or hint that women are not people. I think that is painting a premise that does not exist with a broad brush. Maybe they think that elsewhere in the world, but I'm not speaking for them.

And as far as pay and employment, you can't really compare it like that. I know you can produce a study that says women only make 72 cents on the dollar compared to men, but there are so many things that are not taken into account that it makes me think they are completely full of it. To be clear, YES, at a workplace where 2 people are doing the same job, and the woman is making less than the man, YES, that is valid discrimination and wrong, but there are also women who make more than men, and I don't believe that either of those qualify as a societal norm. In order for the 72 cents to be valid, you have to convince me that the same % of women are looking for work as men (they aren't) and that there is some kind of equality in the number of women who want to or are called on to be the bread winner in the family (there isn't) and also women would have to stop giving birth and stop wanting to take time off to be with a newborn child, and also that there is no difference between the mother who gave birth and her connection to that baby with how a man feels about that baby. The connection with women is FAR stronger and they rightly so might prefer a part time job for longer periods of time, and you would hae to convince me that 0% of women want to be a stay at home mom, 0% want to be just taken care of by someone and only work a little and therefore not negotiate their salaries, plus the biggest of them all, women and men's brains operate completely differently, men are naturally more muscular and therefore are just doing to dominate labor industries and even have a stronger impact in sales (commissions account for a lot of the earnings, and that's where all the big money is too), as well as have far more testosterone in their body's which makes for ambition and get up n go-ness. This is where I guess I have to point out a common sense given....yes, women also have ambition and go-ness, but it's not the same.

I don't expect equality for all men and women in the world when it comes to being exactly the same, because we are different (no mets,I did not say they are not human beings). I do expect equality that men and women within a company or a local sector who are doing the same job get paid the same, but gender roles are a reality and we can't ignore that either.

[hahaha3hahaha]

-deleted-

[Phatscotty]

I would even make the argument that Feminism dominates the culture of my country, to the point there actually is a war on men, and the way young boys are treated from their earliest years and put on drugs if they act the way boys act. There are actions being taken to blunt manliness all over the place

For example, what would people say if our president said "we all know women are smarter than men" women would nod their head and smile, even some men too. If our president said that about men, he would probably be run out of office.

[john9blue]

speaking of which, what do you guys think about this article? some of my FB friends were raging pretty hard about it:

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2013/11/04 ... not-exist/

[hahaha3hahaha]

-deleted-

[Phatscotty]

speaking of which, what do you guys think about this article? some of my FB friends were raging pretty hard about it:

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2013/11/04 ... not-exist/

Nailed it.

I think it's learned in the schools and heavily reinforced in the colleges, especially concerning rape. One thing I will give the education system props on; students know who to point the finger at, and just as important, WHO YOU CANNOT POINT A FINGER AT. Even when it's crystal f'n clear. Imagine how confusing that is.

We truly are living in an Orwellian society. I hope the next hip thing for youngsters to do is challenge every societal template out there.

[mrswdk]

A friend of mine was once falsely accused of rape by a girl who was worried that her boyfriend was going off her. She was hoping that a rape scare would get her boyfriend all protective and back on her side.

[Lootifer]

Sure I cringe at some of what comes out of the more volatile/extreme, but on the flipside there is still a non-zero amount of inequality apparent in "western" (see: NZ, AUS, UK, US, etc) countries, especially in relation to things like pay and employment opportunities.

Again, women want to abolish all gender roles, except the ones that favour them. Let's take paid parental/maternity leave, for example. I'm not anti-maternity leave, I just think it's preposterous to demand "equality" and yet have no issues with reaping the benefits of perks exclusive to one gender.
Equality means does not mean ≥ , it means = .
As for employment opportunities, imagine the uproar if we actually had a 50/50 gender % in industries such as childcare.
Feminism doesn't strive for equality, it strives for gender perks without disadvantages...

1) Source please? I know far more woman who simply want relevant equality rather than woman who want to abolish gender roles. Stop listening to vocal minorities (sure sure PS maybe these vocal minorities hold to much sway/influence but I will quite happily agree with you on the failings of the media).

2) Do you know why woman are the ones taking maternity leave? Because a) in the first few weeks you physically need to, and, b) the child has to have someone looking after it, there are both rational (good/ok) and sexist (bad) reasons for it, but woman make less money on average and therefore its more common for the woman in the relationship to do this looking after. If you asked me, and many other level headed folk in favor of gender equality you would probably find them in favor of the option for paternity leave.

3) Hahahahaha, now excluding the extreme end of the spectrum I can guarantee you that the vast bulk of those in favor of gender equality are also screaming out for more men in childcare. A male, qualified, early childcare teacher is probably one of the most employable people in the world (much like qualified female business executives are in high demand). We actually have programs in NZ that activly encourage men getting into teaching.

Seriously mate you are either very naive or have your head firmly buried in the sand.

Also PS when I said there are non-zero amount of gender inequality I was adjusting for factors such as what roles woman typically do etc. Even after you cut it all away, on average woman still have less opportunities and get paid less than their male counterparts.