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Postby DoomYoshi on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:57 am

Showed up in inbox. curiouser and curiouser

Good afternoon,

I wanted to let you know the Reason Foundation has just fully released its December Reason-Rupe poll of 1,011 Americans on landlines (505) and cell phones (506). Full topline results and demographic breakdowns can be found here.

Here are some of the top level findings:


Health Care Not only are Americans unfavorable toward the federal health care law, but they prefer the health care system in place before the passage of the ACA, and support is waning for key components of the law.

53% are unfavorable toward the health care law, 41% are favorable, read more
57% disapprove of Obama's handling of the law, 38% approve, read more
55% prefer the health care system in place prior to the passage of the ACA, 34% prefer the ACA system, read more
47% say the health care law roll-out has decreased their confidence in government to solve problems, read more
2/3rds of Americans oppose requiring younger Americans pay more for health care even if it helps pay for the uninsured, elderly, sick, or expanded coverage for everyone like maternity and mental health care
57% believe low-cost low-coverage health insurance policies should be allowed, 37% say prohibited

Obama and the Role of Government Americans, particularly older millennials, have become more critical of President Obama and disagree with the president's view on the role of government.

52% generally disagree with President Obama on the "proper size and power of the government", 38% generally agree
54% say government is generally burdensome and impedes people from improving their lives, 41% say government is primarily a source of good and helping people improve their lives, read more
57% disagree that the Obama administration "is the most transparent administration in history" as he contended, 37% agree
Obama is underwater on approval, 50% disapprove, 47% approve
57% disapprove of Obama's handling of health care, 38% approve

Minimum Wage Americans want to raise the minimum wage unless it costs something; however, they remain unconvinced that raising the minimum wage will impact jobs.

Like other polls, Americans overwhelmingly support raising the minimum wage (72% favor, 26% oppose), read more
But 57% would oppose and 28% favor if raising the min. wage causes layoffs or fewer hires, read more
However, 58% don't think raising the min. wage will reduce jobs (35% no impact, 23% increase jobs), 39% say it will reduce jobs, read more
62% view minimum wage jobs as stepping-stones to help lower-skilled or younger workers gain skills, 23% view them as long-term positions for established workers to support their families, read more
Even Americans who already believe minimum wage increases will harm jobs need to be explicitly reminded of the possible cost, or they will support a wage increase, read more

Gun Control

63% say tighter restrictions on buying and owning guns would not be effective in preventing criminals from obtaining guns, 32% think it would be effective, read more
Only 16 percent consider "stricter gun control laws" as the most important factor that could have helped prevent the tragedy from occurring. Gun control came in fourth after "better mental health treatment" (27%), " better parenting" (22%), and "armed guards in schools" (20%), read more

Nanny State Americans favor allowing many activities and products that governments are busy trying to ban, like e-Cigarettes, genetic testing kits, trans fats, and more.

55% say people should be allowed to buy genetic testing kits that provide info about a person's DNA, 37% say these kits should be prohibited, read more
60% say 3-D printed guns should be prohibited, 30% say they should be allowed, read more
65% say gambling in online poker games should be allowed, 32% say prohibited, read more
Majorities also oppose prohibitions on e-cigarette use in public places, violent video games, caffeinated energy drinks , and foods with trans fats, read more

Criminal Justice Americans believe judges can make better sentencing decisions on a case-by-case basis than will mandatory minimum prison sentences.

71% favor eliminating mandatory minimum prison sentences for nonviolent offenders, 24% oppose, read more
58% say local police departments using drones, military weapons, and armored vehicles are "going to far" 37% say these are necessary for law enforcement purposes
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Re: piece de spam

Postby oVo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:48 am

1101 people should have the pulse of America.

This week in Texas, an 18 year old boy who stole a few cases of beer with friends and killed 4 people (injuring 7 others) driving drunk was given 19 years probation, while a woman who was caught stealing a weed eater and an armful of other things (her second offense) was sentenced to 70 years in prison.

In the drunk driving case, the rich kid's parents did put the boy in an expensive California rehab center while he was waiting his trial. If you compare time in a rehab center to dog years they are very similar. So obviously the potential 20 year sentence for killing and crippling half a dozen people was easily satisfied with an out of state non-alcohol country club experience.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby KoolBak on Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:04 am

Wasn't that fu**ing kid in Texas plead out on something stupid like being diagnosed with "affluence"?? How much DOES it cost to buy off an entire court?

Vigilante justice may ensue.....
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Neil Young....Like An Inca

AND:
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby oVo on Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:54 am

Affluence = Victim of Parent's Wealth
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Re: piece de spam

Postby mrswdk on Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:37 pm

Well if his time in rehabilitation was able to rehabilitate him then what would be the point in locking him up in jail? What further gains would be made?
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Re: piece de spam

Postby patches70 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:17 pm

oVo wrote:1101 people should have the pulse of America.

This week in Texas, an 18 year old boy who stole a few cases of beer with friends and killed 4 people (injuring 7 others) driving drunk was given 19 years probation, while a woman who was caught stealing a weed eater and an armful of other things (her second offense) was sentenced to 70 years in prison.

In the drunk driving case, the rich kid's parents did put the boy in an expensive California rehab center while he was waiting his trial. If you compare time in a rehab center to dog years they are very similar. So obviously the potential 20 year sentence for killing and crippling half a dozen people was easily satisfied with an out of state non-alcohol country club experience.


Yeah, I saw those two cases. The case of the teenager, what's there to say? Pretty messed up.

However, the lady with the 70 year sentence, she probably deserved it. It's not just the stealing of the power tools, she has a rap sheet the size of "War and Peace". In the past she's been convicted of solicitation to commit murder, credit card fraud, child endangerment, theft, assault and, of course, drug possession. The woman is a career criminal. And she was convicted under the "three strikes you're out" law (which the fairness is of itself another discussion). Even if she hadn't been tried under that law, she would have been sentenced to 2 to 20 years. If she'd been sentenced to 20 years some would still be saying "for stealing power tools? 20 years?"

Naw, even though sentenced for 70 years, she won't serve all that time. She could have gotten life in prison. She'll be out on parole in a decade or two, if even that long. At which time she will almost certainly go ahead and commit more crimes, thus repeating her previous bad decisions. After a while people stop with the "let's just give the convicted a second chance (third, fourth, fifth, etc etc) At some point someone says "enough is enough".

Which brings one back to the 19 year old. Probation for the killing of four people, though unintended, is pretty light. Though I can't blame the family or lawyer for doing everything they can to defend against the charges. That's just normal.

But how long of a sentence should he have gotten, in one's opinion?

People, do they deserve to get second chances for mistakes made (as horrible as those mistakes sometimes are)?

*I'm not saying the kid should get, nor is it right, that he get leniency, I'm just exploring justice here is all*

It's unfortunate to say the least that deaths of the four others that the teen was responsible for. But what sentence is going to bring back the dead? The teen's family is likely going to be facing civil suits which could lead to the family's destitution. Which causes more suffering and what not. And people are big on giving second chances. Like the post here about the woman getting 70 years, should she deserve a second chance? (scratch that, more like twentieth chance).

Individuals seem to be arbitrary on who should and who shouldn't get leniency based on emotional responses. That's fine and dandy as it's only human to be as such, but we have courts. They aren't perfect, not by a long shot, but I'll take it over law and punishment based on emotion. IMO. If the teen messes up again in life, this case will be remembered and he could find himself under the gun as the woman who got 70 years.

Then again, the kid killed four people. Tossing him in prison for 40 years may be justice as well. It's in the kid's ballpark now. He might have a chance to make something of his life, which won't bring back the dead but in the end may make the world a slightly better place. Or he could keep on making stupid decisions and he'll end up like the lady getting 70 years for stealing tools.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby Lootifer on Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:03 pm

mrswdk wrote:Well if his time in rehabilitation was able to rehabilitate him then what would be the point in locking him up in jail? What further gains would be made?

Theres that second, pesky, reason why we punish criminals.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby mrswdk on Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:40 pm

The only purpose for the justice system (post-trial) is to reform criminals. If he can be reformed in a rehabilitation center prior to his trial then good - he saves the need for the state to get involved and reform him with (lots of) taxpayers' money.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby Lootifer on Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:51 pm

Would be criminals will not be deterred from committing crimes if they percieve that there is no, or very little, consequence right? (thats what I meant by second aspect of our system - we deter via punishment, and we [attempt to] prevent via reformation).
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Re: piece de spam

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:04 pm

Lootifer wrote:Would be criminals will not be deterred from committing crimes if they percieve that there is no, or very little, consequence right? (thats what I meant by second aspect of our system - we deter via punishment, and we [attempt to] prevent via reformation).


unless they view rehab as too costly,

or they're imposed fines.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby Lootifer on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:17 pm

Those are both forms of punishment.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:20 pm

Oh, thought you were only talking about caging/imprisoning people.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby mrswdk on Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:27 pm

If you could preempt the crimes by culturing proper communities and teaching people to act with some civic responsibility and social conscience then there'd be no need to scapegoat petty criminals by giving them life sentences for 'third strike' offences. I'd rather live jn a society where people refrain from committing crimes because they don't want to commit them than one where people refrain from committing crimes because they're afraid of heavy punishments.

The 'heavy punishments deter crime' argument doesn't really hold water anyway. Am*rican courts dish out heavy punishments left, right and center, but Am*rica's crime rate isn't blissfully low. Their murder rate is far higher than the more judicially lenient systems in Germany or the UK.

edit: forgot to self-sensor an A-word. Naughty!
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Re: piece de spam

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:43 am

mrswdk wrote:If you could preempt the crimes by culturing proper communities and teaching people to act with some civic responsibility and social conscience then there'd be no need to scapegoat petty criminals by giving them life sentences for 'third strike' offences. I'd rather live jn a society where people refrain from committing crimes because they don't want to commit them than one where people refrain from committing crimes because they're afraid of heavy punishments.

The 'heavy punishments deter crime' argument doesn't really hold water anyway. Am*rican courts dish out heavy punishments left, right and center, but America's crime rate isn't blissfully low. Their murder rate is far higher than the more judicially lenient systems in Germany or the UK.


This is true. The most effective way to deter crime is to have police enter the area where the crimes are being perpetrated and arrest those doing it. heavy punishment isn't more or less effective... consistent punishment is.
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Re: piece de spam

Postby Lootifer on Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:18 pm

mrswdk wrote:If you could preempt the crimes by culturing proper communities and teaching people to act with some civic responsibility and social conscience then there'd be no need to scapegoat petty criminals by giving them life sentences for 'third strike' offences. I'd rather live jn a society where people refrain from committing crimes because they don't want to commit them than one where people refrain from committing crimes because they're afraid of heavy punishments.

The 'heavy punishments deter crime' argument doesn't really hold water anyway. Am*rican courts dish out heavy punishments left, right and center, but America's crime rate isn't blissfully low. Their murder rate is far higher than the more judicially lenient systems in Germany or the UK.

Oh I completely agree.
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