Congratulations to the people of Tiananmen Square

[AndyDufresne]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

I seek insight from Mrswdk and Macbone and all those from or in the region.

show: also

--Andy

[Mr Changsha]

It is perfectly possible that the Chinese chap in the photo simply wasn't paying attention in a 'I thought that bao zi stall was just across the street' kind of way. We in the west have marked it down as the ultimate example of oriental bravery, personally I think the chap had his mind on finding a reasonably-priced breakfast.

[AndyDufresne]

I wonder what was groceries he has purchased in bags. As someone not from the area, I can't imagine. Based on his attire and video, insight is much appreciated.


--Andy

[macbone]

Hong Kong's the only place in China where the Tiananmen Square protests are remembered. Every year, there's a big rally in Victoria Park. I've never gone, but I'm thinking about going this year.

Back when the government was pushing national education last year as part of the primary and secondary school curriculum, a group of secondary students formed one of the protest groups called Scholarism. I read an interview recently with Joshua Wong, one of the founders, and he mentioned that one of the great things about protesting is all the great food he ended up eating. He met with an activist who had been at Tiananmen Square, and the only thing they talked about was potatop chips.

Here's the article: http://hk-magazine.com/city-living/article/joshua-wong

So Mr Changsha isn't far off the mark. =)

[Dukasaur]

Hong Kong's the only place in China where the Tiananmen Square protests are remembered. Every year, there's a big rally in Victoria Park. I've never gone, but I'm thinking about going this year.

Back when the government was pushing national education last year as part of the primary and secondary school curriculum, a group of secondary students formed one of the protest groups called Scholarism. I read an interview recently with Joshua Wong, one of the founders, and he mentioned that one of the great things about protesting is all the great food he ended up eating. He met with an activist who had been at Tiananmen Square, and the only thing they talked about was potatop chips.

Here's the article: http://hk-magazine.com/city-living/article/joshua-wong

So Mr Changsha isn't far off the mark. =)

Reminds me of my friend who always said that the only reason he went to anti-war protests in the 60s was to get laid.

Makes you wonder how much of protest is just a lifestyle choice, and how little is actually motived by profound political thought like some of us would like to imagine it is.

[AndyDufresne]

It varies probably. I think it is pretty common knowledge Gandhi and MLK were mostly in it to hit it.


--Andy

[Agent 86]

Yep Mr C hit it on the head as usual and scored a goal!! He looked up to see a tank in the road of his breakfast and with the one directional thinking. That tank better move as it's blocking my way..every time he went to move the tank blocked him, that's what makes a hero

[mrswdk]

Hong Kong's the only place in China where the Tiananmen Square protests are remembered

Well, officially

Google's basically stopped working for the last couple of days. I've had to resort to Bing. What a pain in the ass.

[AndyDufresne]

Hong Kong's the only place in China where the Tiananmen Square protests are remembered

Well, officially

Google's basically stopped working for the last couple of days. I've had to resort to Bing. What a pain in the ass.

If they come for you, grab your groceries immediately.


--Andy

[Phatscotty]

Hong Kong's the only place in China where the Tiananmen Square protests are remembered

Well, officially

Google's basically stopped working for the last couple of days. I've had to resort to Bing. What a pain in the ass.

Google's recent China woes are directly related to the anniversary.

Nobody knows what happened to that guy who blocked the tank, which means we probably know what happened to him.

[GoranZ]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

Google's recent China woes are directly related to the anniversary.

Chinese government was very precise whit Google... If Google wants to work in China it should obey Chinese law. Google didn't so he was blocked. Simple.

Nobody knows what happened to that guy who blocked the tank, which means we probably know what happened to him.

Who is that we? I for example can not be included in your "we".
If you are referring that the tank run over him then you should read more before writing something. For now the main question is: who was he? After learning who was he then finding more info about him will be easier.

Overall one thing is certain... Chinese government back then got the message and 25 years after the event China is on road to become Economically strongest country in the world.

[notyou2]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

Google's recent China woes are directly related to the anniversary.

Chinese government was very precise whit Google... If Google wants to work in China it should obey Chinese law. Google didn't so he was blocked. Simple.

Nobody knows what happened to that guy who blocked the tank, which means we probably know what happened to him.

Who is that we? I for example can not be included in your "we".
If you are referring that the tank run over him then you should read more before writing something. For now the main question is: who was he? After learning who was he then finding more info about him will be easier.

Overall one thing is certain... Chinese government back then got the message and 25 years after the event China is on road to become Economically strongest country in the world.

The event was about freedom of the people not economic strength and more shoe styles in the stores.

[AndyDufresne]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

I'm pretty sure not. I don't support nationalism in any silly sense, silly GoranZ. You are all silly.


--Andy

[GoranZ]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

I'm pretty sure not. I don't support nationalism in any silly sense, silly GoranZ. You are all silly.


--Andy

I almost forgot... Another one: Andy is blood thirsty
Reference if Andy denies... All his posts concerning current events in Ukraine.

[Dukasaur]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

Google's recent China woes are directly related to the anniversary.

Chinese government was very precise whit Google... If Google wants to work in China it should obey Chinese law. Google didn't so he was blocked. Simple.

Nobody knows what happened to that guy who blocked the tank, which means we probably know what happened to him.

Who is that we? I for example can not be included in your "we".
If you are referring that the tank run over him then you should read more before writing something. For now the main question is: who was he? After learning who was he then finding more info about him will be easier.

Overall one thing is certain... Chinese government back then got the message and 25 years after the event China is on road to become Economically strongest country in the world.

You've finally worked your way into complete irrelevance. You started by providing some reasonable alternative viewpoints, and have gradually become more extreme until you're just a caricature of yourself. Just another propaganda stooge on the KGB payroll. Although living in the poverty-ridden shithole you live in, I suspect they don't have to pay you very much.

[GoranZ]

La Times - 25th Anniversary

--Andy

Andy you forgot... I dont support what Andy is posting since he is always supporting American Imperialistic Goals.

Google's recent China woes are directly related to the anniversary.

Chinese government was very precise whit Google... If Google wants to work in China it should obey Chinese law. Google didn't so he was blocked. Simple.

Nobody knows what happened to that guy who blocked the tank, which means we probably know what happened to him.

Who is that we? I for example can not be included in your "we".
If you are referring that the tank run over him then you should read more before writing something. For now the main question is: who was he? After learning who was he then finding more info about him will be easier.

Overall one thing is certain... Chinese government back then got the message and 25 years after the event China is on road to become Economically strongest country in the world.

You've finally worked your way into complete irrelevance. You started by providing some reasonable alternative viewpoints, and have gradually become more extreme until you're just a caricature of yourself. Just another propaganda stooge on the KGB payroll. Although living in the poverty-ridden shithole you live in, I suspect they don't have to pay you very much.

I live where I live... I do what I do... And you only read what you want to read, and that is Western point of view. Whats interesting is that you are way off from the truth, you are not aware how much

[AndyDufresne]

I don't know what warped view you have of me, GoranZ, but the only blood thirstiness in my bones is related to Star Trek. Go take a look anywhere you silly fool.


--Andy

[mrswdk]

The event was about freedom of the people not economic strength and more shoe styles in the stores.

Protests generally only occur because the protestors are unsatisfied/frustrated with their individual lives. The protestors in 1989 were mostly poor, bored students.

Maybe economic growth and greater standard of living wasn't the stated goal of the people who went to the square that year, but fast forward 25 years and some massive economic growth and I don't see many people in Beijing who would think it's worth their time to spend several weeks sat in Tiananmen shouting about the government (although a small number of people from the countryside still turn up to complain about land seizures from time to time).

My friends who complain about the government gripe about freedom of speech and official corruption, but they don't actually say they want democracy and they don't seem pissed enough to do anything about their moans. Their lives are comfortable and they can see that their standard of living already greatly outstrips what their parents had at their age.

[notyou2]

The event was about freedom of the people not economic strength and more shoe styles in the stores.

Protests generally only occur because the protestors are unsatisfied/frustrated with their individual lives. The protestors in 1989 were mostly poor, bored students.

Maybe economic growth and greater standard of living wasn't the stated goal of the people who went to the square that year, but fast forward 25 years and some massive economic growth and I don't see many people in Beijing who would think it's worth their time to spend several weeks sat in Tiananmen shouting about the government (although a small number of people from the countryside still turn up to complain about land seizures from time to time).

My friends who complain about the government gripe about freedom of speech and official corruption, but they don't actually say they want democracy and they don't seem pissed enough to do anything about their moans. Their lives are comfortable and they can see that their standard of living already greatly outstrips what their parents had at their age.

The improvement in the standard of living is a stop gap measure instituted by the state. Yes it's working.........for now. Your own post proves that there is dissatisfaction, it is just a matter of time and extent of the dissatisfaction before it erupts again and the people want more. Of course this can be said for any state. I feel that a fundamental shift is occurring in the west right now. People are dissatisfied with the status quo and want change. They are tired of lying politicians and the corporate greed. There will be a change soon. Will it be peaceful like England's gradual transition to democracy or bloody like the French Revolution? Time will tell.

[Mr Changsha]

The event was about freedom of the people not economic strength and more shoe styles in the stores.

Protests generally only occur because the protestors are unsatisfied/frustrated with their individual lives. The protestors in 1989 were mostly poor, bored students.

Maybe economic growth and greater standard of living wasn't the stated goal of the people who went to the square that year, but fast forward 25 years and some massive economic growth and I don't see many people in Beijing who would think it's worth their time to spend several weeks sat in Tiananmen shouting about the government (although a small number of people from the countryside still turn up to complain about land seizures from time to time).

My friends who complain about the government gripe about freedom of speech and official corruption, but they don't actually say they want democracy and they don't seem pissed enough to do anything about their moans. Their lives are comfortable and they can see that their standard of living already greatly outstrips what their parents had at their age.

Another way of thinking about it is to consider the number of Chinese you know who are genuinely democratic in outlook (when dealing with their children, staff, elderly parents etc). In my experience most Chinese people are at heart authoritarian - given half a chance - in their own lives. Therefore following the maxim that 'people generally get the governments they deserve' it should be of no great surprise that a people like the Chinese have failed to achieve anything even resembling democracy in public life.

Will the average Chinese father let his child talk back to him about much of anything or does he tend to reach for his belt? Will the Chinese government welcome a free and honest discourse about matters of public policy? Does the typical department manager tend to ask for constructive comments in meetings? Does the Chinese government actively encourage a free media?

So I don't feel sorry for the vast majority of the Chinese people about their lack of democratic government. They frankly don't deserve one for the reasons above. Do I feel sorry for the significant minority of them who are truly democratic in outlook? Indeed I do, and frankly for those types the best thing they can do is what they have always done: emigrate.

[DaGip]

I wonder what was groceries he has purchased in bags. As someone not from the area, I can't imagine. Based on his attire and video, insight is much appreciated.


--Andy

[macbone]

Like Mr Changsha says, Confucianism is still dominates Chinese thought. Look at the 300+ Confucius Institutes the central government has set up on foreign university campuses. Like most things, Confucianism mixes good ideas like taking care of the elderly with negative aspects like patriarchy. Superiors should be obeyed. The Chinese government is suspicious of things like human rights and democracy, seeing them as western constructs that can potentially undermine Chinese society. Social harmony is valued above western ideas like thinking and acting independently.

That's not to say that all Chinese people believe this, or even think that all Confucian ideas are good ones. Hong Kong people love to protest. It's practically a family event here.

[mrswdk]

The improvement in the standard of living is a stop gap measure instituted by the state. Yes it's working.........for now. Your own post proves that there is dissatisfaction, it is just a matter of time and extent of the dissatisfaction before it erupts again and the people want more

Something which could be said about absolutely any country in the world, including all the liberal democracies.

[mrswdk]

And yeah, as other people have said, the Chinese mindset puts a pretty heavy emphasis on obedience and deference to authority. People also have a tendency to pretend bad things don't exist rather than confronting them and won't openly contradict something someone else has just said. The emphasis is on uniformity and harmony. A lot of the aspects of the CCP's conduct that get most loudly vilified in Western media are actually fairly representative of the general Chinese mindset.

Western democracies are contentious by nature; Chinese society is not.

[notyou2]

The improvement in the standard of living is a stop gap measure instituted by the state. Yes it's working.........for now. Your own post proves that there is dissatisfaction, it is just a matter of time and extent of the dissatisfaction before it erupts again and the people want more

Something which could be said about absolutely any country in the world, including all the liberal democracies.

Yes, that's why you removed the part where I said that.