Words of Wisdom for Ferguson and America

[Phatscotty]

Different methods of enforcement is unfair and unjust and prejudiced. Just as freedom of speech protects the things we don't want said, freedom against unwarranted search and seizure, against loss of freedom, should protect those most likely to be harmed by it. Taking that freedom from those worse hit by the authorities paves a slippery slope for the loss of that freedom for society as a whole.

Different methods of enforcement is unavoidable, 100%. You are railing against something that is impossible, at least until intelligent robots take over. You may try to twist this into me saying black people deserve to be treated differently, but that's just you Metsing. I am talking about where the crime is and where the crime is not. Who happens to live where the crime is, along with all different other kinds of people who live there as well, is not a racial statement.

I would delve into this further about the exact reason why police cannot and never will act 100% fairly, unjustly, and without prejudice, but this is the second time you tried to stuff some bullshit in my mouth, and I find it unfair, unjust, and prejudiced, not to mention cheap and possibly yellow. I know why the others do it, but I thought you were a bit more objective. So I'm gonna protest you for a day

[Phatscotty]

[_sabotage_]

I had a friend who was drunk at like 17. He was chilling with some friends and some cops approached them. He got out one of their guns and acted stupid. They told him to give it back and he did. He wasn't arrested, beat, shot.

But this was in HK, where taking out a gun breaks a seal and requires a written report. I'm guessing that report didn't mention my friend.

You seem to be missing the point of my position, PS.

The main point is that government has structured society to be as it is. They have pursued a system which incarcerates and pushes millions of people through the legal system. They have done this to bring wealth to their enforcement/legal/prison system and to scare people into doing what they want.

In Tupacs words: they have a war on drugs so the police can bother me.

Without the drug war, the system breaks down. The first offence, the reason to frisk, a small-time pothead can be coerced into informing on a small-time dealer. The big dealers are ignored, or provided guns by the FBI. The harsh penalties provide incentives to eliminate snitches. The prisons are geared towards recidivism or ongoing clients. There is little opportunity available. It creates unstable families and the belief in youth of a certain variety to feel that that is the route they must take.

Yes, yes, I see. But the chance of being in the 0.1% is 0.1%. And the chance of falling out of the 0.1% if you were born to it is 0.1%. So the chance for the rest of the population to join the 0.1% is small. The bottom 20% will still be there if a few guys get out.

Acting as if it isn't and acting like they are not being targeted for a lot of the same shit the rest of us do is nonsense. Protest as much as you like. The numbers are there and policy has been written to create those numbers and policy is written to maintain those numbers.

And we can see that through the numbers. I don't see black people being more likely to smoke weed, I see them more likely to be targeted for it, more likely to go to jail for it, more likely for it to lead to actual crimes, more likely for it to be held against them for life, to go on a job application, more likely to be a stigma to their youth, more likely to tear apart families, more likely for them to get guns and shoot other people.

For me these aren't inherent dispositions, these are dispositions placed upon them by a power hungry, propagandizing government who wants to keep their population in need of their services real or self-promulgated.

You know that the Harvard Law Review office doors have not been battered open so that a few joints could be kept from damaging the youth. You know that the high-end Chicago clubs aren't raided. You know that Obama has no record, and you know it's because he has money and rights. You know all else being equal, were he from the hood, then he'd be smoking the same weed out in public, that the police would stop him 100 times and frisk him 70 and arrest him 8 times and he'd have done prison time before his alternate self had a bachelors.

We have created a system that uses fear rather than opportunity, that punishes unjustly. And rather than say, what could we improve? you say, perfection is impossible. Instead of saying, I can see how this starts and where it leads, you say: look at where it leads.

I can see where it leads, and I can see where it should lead. It should lead to us using our tax dollars for a better society. But then the government would have fewer excuses to extract our tax dollars. It should lead to people who are down and out doing slightly stupid shit instead of massively stupid shit. But it doesn't, because they know they will be treated the same for doing either.

[Metsfanmax]

can we get back to whether Michael Brown should have been killed? The real question here is, despite everything you have said about how police officers have way too much power, whether you're still willing to give Darren Wilson the benefit of the doubt, simply because you don't like the political agenda of social justice warriors.

It's unfortunate there is nothing else besides Darren Wilson's testimony.

What is it you are basing your opinion on? You seem to take the position that Browne did not go for the officer's gun? based on what?

This is exactly my point. Outside of this context, I can't imagine another circumstance in which I would need to justify to you the belief that maybe a police officer is lying. What would his motivation be to lie? I don't know, how about not going to prison?

(Of course, there's also Brown's friend who was there at the time and said it did not happen, but he's black so I guess his testimony doesn't matter in comparison to the friendly and always truthful officer of the law.)

[BigBallinStalin]

I think ceteris paribus is the only reason economists still have jobs.

That and the belief in technocracy + government resulting in superior outcomes.

[BigBallinStalin]

The darling witness of the pro-cop crowd turns out to have (likely) been a liar (and a racist). (IIRC, it's Witness 40).

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... hael-brown
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/prosecutor-a ... brown-case
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/14/justice/f ... edibility/

[Lootifer]

Urgh

[Phatscotty]

can we get back to whether Michael Brown should have been killed? The real question here is, despite everything you have said about how police officers have way too much power, whether you're still willing to give Darren Wilson the benefit of the doubt, simply because you don't like the political agenda of social justice warriors.

It's unfortunate there is nothing else besides Darren Wilson's testimony.

What is it you are basing your opinion on? You seem to take the position that Browne did not go for the officer's gun? based on what?

This is exactly my point. Outside of this context, I can't imagine another circumstance in which I would need to justify to you the belief that maybe a police officer is lying. What would his motivation be to lie? I don't know, how about not going to prison?

(Of course, there's also Brown's friend who was there at the time and said it did not happen, but he's black so I guess his testimony doesn't matter in comparison to the friendly and always truthful officer of the law.)

Really? That's your point? That because there is only one version of the story.....it is therefor false? Care to provide the rationale on that one?

I've conceded many a time already, that sure, maybe the police officer lied. I even volunteered experiences from my own life where police lied against me, where police harassed me. At this point I pity your attempts trying to convince me that police officers lie and request you take your fingers out of your ears.

How about I make a point just as relevant as yours in response....maybe the police officer isn't lying? Wow!, see how relevant the basis for which you have such a strong opinion is edified? At this point, it's pretty clear you don't comprehend anything that is said to you. Perhaps because you are so in love with your own white guilt that race truly does mean everything to you, and what actually happened that night doesn't matter. Want an example? Virtually all of the witnesses testified that Brown was in fact charging/moving toward the police officer. Mets, what do you make of that evidence? Is that just lies as well? However, as you well know and as you often preach, just because you can think of a reason the officer might lie does not mean you are justified in hijacking the narrative by assuming he is lying, and even beyond assumption as the hijacked narrative has now become the monster you willingly created. And that monster announces itself as the judge, jury, and executioner by achieving social justice/getting even by taking 2 cops lives.

Your inability to have a normal conversation bores me. I know why you change subjects often, I know why you steer clear of direct questions and answers, I know why you try to pin things on me that show the opposite of what I just said... and it's not annoying me as much as you may be trying to do so. It's just outing the complete inability of your mind to coexist with your emotions.

[Metsfanmax]

can we get back to whether Michael Brown should have been killed? The real question here is, despite everything you have said about how police officers have way too much power, whether you're still willing to give Darren Wilson the benefit of the doubt, simply because you don't like the political agenda of social justice warriors.

It's unfortunate there is nothing else besides Darren Wilson's testimony.

What is it you are basing your opinion on? You seem to take the position that Browne did not go for the officer's gun? based on what?

This is exactly my point. Outside of this context, I can't imagine another circumstance in which I would need to justify to you the belief that maybe a police officer is lying. What would his motivation be to lie? I don't know, how about not going to prison?

(Of course, there's also Brown's friend who was there at the time and said it did not happen, but he's black so I guess his testimony doesn't matter in comparison to the friendly and always truthful officer of the law.)

Really? That's your point? That because there is only one version of the story.....it is therefor false? Care to provide the rationale on that one?

It appears that you missed the parenthetical statement in my post where I observed that there are two versions of the story, one of which is provided by a police officer, yet you seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt to the police officer. I am no longer interested in arguing this, at this point I am just observing it and moving on.

How about I make a point just as relevant as yours in response....maybe the police officer isn't lying?

In general, do you think that in circumstances in which their career and future is on the line, that police are more likely to be lying or to be telling the truth? Just trying to gauge how much you trust police officers to do the right thing. If you think that the chance he is lying is greater than 50%, this should have gone to trial. Hell, if you think it's greater than 5%, it should have gone to trial.

Want an example? Virtually all of the witnesses testified that Brown was in fact charging/moving toward the police officer. Mets, what do you make of that evidence? Is that just lies as well?

Didn't you see the post by BBS right above this one? The one witness who testified that Brown was "charging" at Wilson was accused of lying by both an independent investigative effort and the prosecutor or in the case. As for the fact that Brown was "moving toward" the police officer -- I don't know what to make of that evidence. A jury trial might have been helpful in determining that. It could be that he was threatening Wilson, but it could also be that Wilson asked him to move closer, or that Brown was trying to tell him to stop shooting at him. Of course I'm not fully convinced that Brown was not attacking the police officer, but when you have a dead unarmed man, you don't give the benefit of the doubt to the person who shot him. Again, a trial where the relevant facts could have been brought out, and a fair assessment made, would have gone a long way towards resolving this. Surely you can agree that if a cop kills someone in this fashion, there should be a trial? That's actually the only thing I want you to respond to in this post. (You can respond to the rest, but I'll ignore it.) Just want to know whether you give him the benefit of the doubt to the extent that you don't even think he should see his day in court.

However, as you well know and as you often preach, just because you can think of a reason the officer might lie does not mean you are justified in hijacking the narrative by assuming he is lying, and even beyond assumption as the hijacked narrative has now become the monster you willingly created.

I don't assume he is lying, I just assume that it's likely enough that there should have been a trial.

And that monster announces itself as the judge, jury, and executioner by achieving social justice/getting even by taking 2 cops lives.

Are you claiming that Ismaaiyl Brinsley killed an Asian cop and a Hispanic cop because he is black and hates white people? Your racism is finally flying in true colors.

Your inability to have a normal conversation bores me. I know why you change subjects often, I know why you steer clear of direct questions and answers, I know why you try to pin things on me that show the opposite of what I just said... and it's not annoying me as much as you may be trying to do so. It's just outing the complete inability of your mind to coexist with your emotions.

Your inability to comprehend basic logic bores me, nevertheless I still engage with you for some reason. Remember that time when you said that college makes people more liberal, and then completely ignored the sentence in the next paragraph of that piece that showed that people who don't go to college become more liberal by about the same amount? Good times.

[DaGip]

This speech reminds me of this:

[thegreekdog]

Remember that time when you said that college makes people more liberal, and then completely ignored the sentence in the next paragraph of that piece that showed that people who don't go to college become more liberal by about the same amount? Good times.

I remember that! I'm going to go back and find that thread. It was one of my favorites.

[thegreekdog]

betiko posted a Headline of 2015 regarding a black police officer killing a white person. I wonder if Phatscotty's position would be different in that case.

[BigBallinStalin]

Vote for Lootifer! 2016!

Potential President Lootifer, say something for the people!

Urgh

WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell us your plans for fixing the financial sector.

Urgh

WOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tell us your plans for fixing the trade deficit!

Urgh

WOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TA1LGUNN3R]

"Urgh we can believe in."

-TG

[Lootifer]

Urghhhhh, ahhhh

[BigBallinStalin]

Urghhhhh, ahhhh

[Phatscotty]

[Dukasaur]

[Phatscotty]

betiko posted a Headline of 2015 regarding a black police officer killing a white person. I wonder if Phatscotty's position would be different in that case.

......"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks"


You're angle bluffin a straight mighty heavy there Grekko. You should know by now to check that there aren't three cards of the same suit in the community up-cards, and certainly when it's me who sits across from your apophantic drolling. Because you can count on me flushin that ass every time.

2014 called, virtually on the same day Ferguson became a household name around the world, and they want their 'headline' back. Oh yeah, whitey's story gets buried, I forgot. The fact that neither you nor Betiko knows who Dillon Taylor is reveals a lot about just how far perception can be manipulated. As for your ill-minded juxtaposition, I'll add it as one of my favorites as well.




by Phatscotty on Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:39 am

If i wanted to make the point in my own words, I would say it's sad that this year so far 76 police officers have been killed in the line of duty and nobody really knows their names or their stories, but people all around the world know the names Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin.

Dillon Taylor

Chief Burbank said the officer who killed Taylor was not white, but he didn’t elaborate further.

“Officers should be held to extremely high standards, but that cannot be an impossible standard,” he added.

Taylor’s supporters say his death hasn’t received enough media attention.

“We want answers — we need them,” Aaron Swanenberg, a longtime friend of Taylor, told The New York Times.

Taylor, who is white, was reportedly unarmed when he was shot two times near a 7-Eleven on Aug. 11 after a confrontation with police officers.

The Salt Lake City police chief addressed criticism and the militarization of police in the wake of Taylor’s death.

Family and friends of Dillon Taylor say they will continue to hold protests outside state and federal government offices until the authorities answer questions about the shooting, The New York Times reported.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=209298#p4592128

[Phatscotty]

Remember that time when you said that college makes people more liberal, and then completely ignored the sentence in the next paragraph of that piece that showed that people who don't go to college become more liberal by about the same amount? Good times.

I remember that! I'm going to go back and find that thread. It was one of my favorites.

wow, so you remember that the statement remains true, regardless of the number of people who we weren't even taking about? Imagine, for a moment, that outside of the Liberal ratio of 9-1 in academic collegiate and university staff, there were another powerful mind molding institution....coincidentally Liberally biased at around the same rate ....called the media. Your brain-farts could be experienced with far less bovinity if you aimed more honestly and truthfully, like at those who doubted the statement in the first place. You could also give them a pass I guess, seeing some of them at least now admit the statement is in fact true.

Glad to see you digging into unrelated topics from years ago to try to make some kind of point here today. I'll take that as a compliment.

[Phatscotty]

can we get back to whether Michael Brown should have been killed? The real question here is, despite everything you have said about how police officers have way too much power, whether you're still willing to give Darren Wilson the benefit of the doubt, simply because you don't like the political agenda of social justice warriors.

It's unfortunate there is nothing else besides Darren Wilson's testimony.

What is it you are basing your opinion on? You seem to take the position that Browne did not go for the officer's gun? based on what?

This is exactly my point. Outside of this context, I can't imagine another circumstance in which I would need to justify to you the belief that maybe a police officer is lying. What would his motivation be to lie? I don't know, how about not going to prison?

(Of course, there's also Brown's friend who was there at the time and said it did not happen, but he's black so I guess his testimony doesn't matter in comparison to the friendly and always truthful officer of the law.)

It's also unfortunate you continually seem to base everything on your vapid assumption about 'what I hate' It's not that I hate social justice warriors at all. I simply have a problem with any kind of justice based on 'well, 'maybe' it could have been unjust' or 'technically, we don't know for sure that it wasn't unjust....' so yall have built a national movement on that, and count Phatscotty out, because 'he just hates us'. And I already know it doesn't matter to you or most of the hands-uppers what the truth actually is. Because for yall, the truth doesn't matter and the ends justify the means. Their records don't matter, their accomplishments and failures, their character and how they treated others around them doesn't matter....all that matters is 'well, 'maybe' racism'


Leveling with ya....I understand your point, and I agree fully and always have. 'Maybe' the officer is lying, and just felt like shooting some random black person that night for no reason whatsoever. However it's about a lot, LOT more than that now. I was getting at you and how far a 'maybe' and a 'what if' can/should reasonably go, as well as pointing out the extreme and radical difference between what I am doing with my 'maybe' and what you and yours are doing with your 'maybe' So far, 2 police officers have been killed specifically because of how far this 'maybe' has gone, many more white people have been directly murdered and mercilessly beat to a pulp. You think a mob approaching you is going to take some time out and listen to how you 'feel' about things? Nope, you have a certain skin color, so you are getting beat. Just think of the kinds of things others who look just like you have screamed for their life as they were certain they may me ruthlessly and savagely murdered right there on the street, right in front of their family, being beat to death with hammers, all because of he is white? And all you could hear in your last moments was the laughter your murder brought a bunch of racists barbarians...barbarians created specifically by 'well, maybe racism is why Michael Brown is dead'. That is where the media/universities/government has directed this 'maybe'. Oh, and the officers were non-white. I just feel, for some reason, I should point that out to you as a tremendously important 'factor' in which to weigh your emotional guidance differently, since they where not white, that is. And notice they are getting away with it, since every single 'Ferguson' in America has been owned, operated, and overseen by the Democrat Party for 2-3 generations now... yet the supremely dominant narrative remains Progressive media/education/gov't pointing their fingers at everyone else, even going so far as to send extreme messages of various types. Such as a possible all out war between blacks n police, mayor like Deblasio (for realz Marxist) in New York even seemingly pulling support from and turning his back on his own police department, if not outright betraying his own police department as well as largely responsible for the death of 2 said police officers, and directly responsible for at least 1 civilian death in New York, since their stunt closing down the Brooklyn Bridge, along with the mayorxist Deblasio actually letting them happen, preented a man from being able to access the hospital. It's still not known if the accident the man was in himself was due to closing down traffic. And all this....based on a 'maybe'. No sweat mate, you did your part, and millions of college students all across America as a fact have received extra credit and permission to be excused from class so they can 'do their part' for 'social justice' and be the generation of 'Progress'. Just ask them, they'll tell ya all about it. Go ahead, disagree with them. Consider yourself lucky if you even get a chance to give your take on things and why you say what you say or think what you think before you get called a racist, a bigot, a homophobe, an Islamiphobe, a Xenophobe, or a sexist. And they'll tell ya....the older people just don't understand! Somehow the least seasoned among us not only have all the knowledge but also all the experience and all the wisdom as well. They know all about what color skin should be treated a certain way, and what color skin will just have to pay. And edifying all this...their racism and hate anyone who 'hates' what they like and think is right is totally justifiable and they can explain it. Not understanding a whit that all racism and hate before them also believed they could rationalize and justify the racism and the hate of their time.

And besides these pictures you may remember I have already shares elsewhere that lady that got run over in Minneapolis trying to close down traffic, the story about a local school teacher here in Minneapolis who took to twitter to write 'No indictment in the Browne case!!! What am I supposed to tell my students??' And these are students performing at a 25% literacy rate. Oh well, who cares if they can read or not, by all means, excuse them from class to get their extra credit. And who can forget the University president that was forced to apologize for mass-emailing a message to her students that 'all lives matter'

I mean really, this whole thing is f'd up and if I believed in Satan I would observe his work is being done. Well, 'maybe', guess you can't say 'for certain' that Satan's work isn't being done....eh?

Let me try it to ya another way. 'Maybe' God exists...'maybe' God does not exist. You really don't have any problem whatsoever with billions of people on the other side of that 'maybe' closing down traffic, letting students out of class, rioting, vandalizing billions of dollars in property and causing all kinds of related deaths and injuries, all in their forceful push of promoting what they honestly believe and feel is the ultimate truth, and telling you the new rules based around them and how to think how to act how to talk and how not to talk to them, demanding billions of dollars in changes and special treatment/psychology of their specific creed? pushing their narrative of world history, world events, what is right and wrong, what is socially acceptable and what isn't..... all based on their 'maybe'?

[_sabotage_]

Prejudice, not racist.

Prejudice: willing to believe one party over another for whatever predetermined reasons.

You have failed to show this is not the case. You have consistently argued that perhaps the police actions were legit. You have found various reasons they may have been so.

This is completely besides the point to me. Police have a role in society, and if they can't fulfill it, but instead escalate them into far grievous problems, then they are failing at their jobs.

It doesn't matter if this happens with a black "suspect" or a white one. Race only enters the equation when it becomes disproportionately evident that it should. You have ignored this.

[Phatscotty]

I was just listening to that CD in my car earlier. Its still in the deck.

Even if I did fall, I still ball
bustin mother fuckers with my back against the wall

I will probably always relate to the golden age of rap

[Phatscotty]

Prejudice, not racist.

Prejudice: willing to believe one party over another for whatever predetermined reasons.

You have failed to show this is not the case. You have consistently argued that perhaps the police actions were legit. You have found various reasons they may have been so.

This is completely besides the point to me. Police have a role in society, and if they can't fulfill it, but instead escalate them into far grievous problems, then they are failing at their jobs.

It doesn't matter if this happens with a black "suspect" or a white one. Race only enters the equation when it becomes disproportionately evident that it should. You have ignored this.

I have constantly argued that we don't know, admitted that I do not know, and urged the hands uppers to admit they do not know as well. And how is it you fail completely to call out the prejudice of 'well, there have been racist police in the past, therefore we decide that This police that shot Browne is racist" How is that ANY different from the thought process of 'purple people have stole in the past, therefore we decide this purple person here must be have stole something or is likely to steal something'?? And even if I did take the position 'Officer Wilson did nothing wrong', which I have not, it wouldn't be for a pre-determined reason. How is not the hands uppers decision that the officer did lie based on pre-determinations???

Your post is not entirely true. You are still putting words in my mouth. I think you should probably start quoting me and what it is a said you base all that on. I have only argued the perhapness of police legitimacy as a counter measure in relevance to the also unperhapsness of police legitimacy. Conclusion; WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!

I admit, as I seem to do a lot but nobody else has the integrity to do so.....There is a small part of me that speculates 65-35 to the officer of the law more than the blunt thief who just threatened harm to a senior citizen, who also has a record of crime and a history of not giving a f*ck about anyone else but themselves. There is a small part of me that speculates 95-5 that the police officer did not wake up that morning and decide he was gonna kill a black person for no reason that day. As well as my 'suspicion' that the overwhelming majority of police officers do not risk their lives every day and enter the most dangerous situation you or I could imagine because they 'don't give a f*ck' and to the contrary they are officers of the law because most of them do give a crap about everybody else...That makes me prejudiced? What is the antidote for such such a horrendous accusation!?? Never using prior factors or records or evidence in speculating more one way or another ever again in my life??? Is not the other side of this coin JUST as 'prejudiced'? Granting they also do not know, but have made their minds up, started a national movement, and because of that people have died, been beaten to death, been beaten almost to death, with millions of dollars in damage, resulting in them being the ones who literally have turned the clock back on racial progress? Really, you are gonna call me out huh? That's awfully 'prejudiced' of you And, just for you Sabby, I will point out what I did not say here, and add that this is not what I am trying to say. I am not saying and not trying to say Wilson did not shoot a black person for no reason. I said I find that unlikely, but it's possible. I also did not say and was not trying to say the Wilson did not lie. I know police lie, I know it's legal for them to lie, I have told you specifically a couple instances where police lied against me. He may have lied, he may not have. We don't know, I don't know, and you don't know either. I also am not saying or not trying to say Michael Brown deserved to be shot for stealing blunts. I only said the fact that we know he steals does not win him honesty points, which would normally go without saying. Just like the fact the we know Browne threatened a senior citizen just moments before does not win him and citizen of the year points either. Either way, I am not taking physical action on this. I am not demanding political action. I am not stirring up racial emotions with something that may not even be true. They are doing all those things, and people are dead because of it.

Race only enters the equation when it becomes disproportionately evident that it should. You have ignored this

Let me challenge you there, as I have challenged many many others with only one person brave enough to face the music and give an honest response. What specifically have I ignored? What is the evidence that Michael Browne being killed had anything to do with race?

Another challenge to what you said ...

Police have a role in society, and if they can't fulfill it, but instead escalate them into far grievous problems, then they are failing at their jobs.

Do not citizens have a role in society as well? are the hands uppers really fulfilling it? Shouldn't the hands uppers have even a bit of evidence that racism is the blame for Browne's daeth? Are the hands uppers not severely escalating this 'unknown' into already committed grievous problems, such as police murdered at random? All this based on a 'maybe it was racism' Are they not failing as well? Again, you really have nothing to say to them huh, only me? I think that is a bit prejudiced as well, even if granted only by the fact that my constant from day one position has been 'We don't know, I don't know, and you don't know' cannot be directly responsible for any known murders, while the hands uppers as well as those who have helped build this false narrative that enrages people to murder, they have blood on their hands. You pick me to criticize huh.