Dancing on the street in NY? Prepare for police harassment!

[KoolBak]

Greek..do you feel better now? Tell ya what...don't tell me how to think, act or feel and we'll get along just fine. Don't tell me how to vote, dress, love or what religion to adhere to either while you're at it.

The problem, if you don't get my insinuation, is that I am expressing my opinion here.....you are telling me my opinion and personal reactions are wrong. Hence, you're a self-absorbed, narcissistic zeke ;o) (I love deductive reasoning).

On with the thread!

[2dimes]

Kool,
You should feel happy, vote for the candidate you like best, wear Stuart hunting tartan and consider the RSOF. None of that other stuff seems important.

The weird guy danced behind some NY traffic cops. That was also a bad idea but. No one pushed him. The group with the officer that did were bullies. I think you may be right they have potential reasons to be bullies, they are in NY. Having said that, I don't see the need to shove him at the end.

Ok, they don't want to serve, I hope they want to protect us still. I would have rather seen the police help a guy after some bullies decided to "teach him not to dance around them."

[thegreekdog]

Greek..do you feel better now? Tell ya what...don't tell me how to think, act or feel and we'll get along just fine. Don't tell me how to vote, dress, love or what religion to adhere to either while you're at it.

The problem, if you don't get my insinuation, is that I am expressing my opinion here.....you are telling me my opinion and personal reactions are wrong. Hence, you're a self-absorbed, narcissistic zeke ;o) (I love deductive reasoning).

On with the thread!

I'm not telling you how to do anything. I did two things in response to you.

First, I noted my own opinion which is based on my view of the video as well as my own personal views on the accountability of police (as I responded to Gabby). My opinion happens to be in direct contradiction to your opinion and therefore I denigrated your opinion (as we are keen on doing around here). That appears to be something you cannot handle and/or you lack the intellectual wherewithal to respond appropriately (note Gabby has responded with points and argument).

Second, I noted that your anticipated reaction to the dancer (wherein you would "throw em on the ground too") would likely result in you being arrested for battery (or assault). This was not me telling you anything; this is really what the law says. I don't write the laws (unfortunately). I would recommend that if someone dances behind you, you do not engage the person physically (unless you are indifferent as to whether you arrested).

Finally, while I am definitely self-absorbed and narcissistic, but that has little to do with my views in this thread. As I responded to Gabby, my views on this thread are based primarily on my own personal experiences, my interpretation of my friends' personal experiences, my reading of the news and policy, my dislike of authority in general, and my view of the video. Your views are likely based on similar experienes and, as indicated above, are antithetical to mine. If you would like to engage in a debate, please feel free. If you would like to take some sort of stand as if I've insulted you personally because I disagree with your point of view, then that's fine too, but if you're looking for some sort of apology or admission on my part, that's not forthcoming.

tl; dr version:

You can say whatever the f*ck you want and so can I. So either debate the shit or get the f*ck out. f*ck, if people around here took your tactic in these discussions, this would be shithole of a forum.

Koolbak - "I think X."
Metsfanmax - "I think Y, which is different than X and I therefore disagree with you and you're wrong for the following reasons."
Koolbak - "Don't tell me how to think!"

[2dimes]

my dislike of authority in general,

Why? I think someone needs the authority to protect me from being pushed because I'm too stupid to avoid dancing near bullies.

Though I can't dance as well as that little guy in the video.

[KoolBak]

Dimey....as you've been to my home and we've played together, you may feel free to advise me all you want

[thegreekdog]

my dislike of authority in general,

Why? I think someone needs the authority to protect me from being pushed because I'm too stupid to avoid dancing near bullies.

Though I can't dance as well as that little guy in the video.

To be fair, I would have pushed this guy too (or at least verbally accosted him). I don't need the cops to help me with that.

[Phatscotty]

I can easily see how a lot of people who don't know what's going on behind their back might get the impression someone is trying to pick their pocket or some other nefarious activity, or just dancing behind a person who has a migraine headache, just got fired, lost a loved one, or intense menstrual cramps might just haul off and deck ya in the face, not to mention it really is an invasion of other people's space. There are a lot of people who try not to let people get close enough to them without first having a chance to gauge their intentions.....for example a conceal n carry person or an off duty/undercover cop. I get the fun holiday dancing thing, but it would be a lot better if this didn't screw with other people's business in a way they don't know what the heck your'e doing.

per the potential different police reactions, pretty sure anything no matter how innocent that requires sneaking up extremely close to people and trying not to be seen is gonna blip on a few radars. Or least least pick a better time than right now, but is there ever really a good time to sneak up on a police officer? Sounds like a common sense no-no

I understand the police in the first video stopping the dancing fool and asking him what he's doing. I don't understand pushing him initially and then tossing him to the ground without an apology. What I saw in the first video was a group of three or more men, wearing weapons, bullying someone who was by himself and had no weapons and had committed no crime. I fail to see how anyone could find the first video to be a reasonable police response from beginning to end.

If you are one who believes it's normal for police to pull over black people and harass them for no reason, then a black person making wild motions behind the back of police should be a given. Also, I'd bet those are New York cops, who aren't in the 'haha, good joke played behind my back. Not too worried the perception it may give to people....hhaha' type of mood at the moment. On principle, can't find too much sympathy for someone who willingly enters a situation with 3 people who have guns n permission to use them without fear of indictment.

per Reasonable - anyone who expects police to be reasonable is asking way too much. I mean yes, that would be great, we can demand it all day and we should. But, I've been in contact with police enough to know 'reason' is about a 70-30 expectation, just in my experience. Not sure if you've kept up with all my posts, but recently shared one of my experiences, where the police held me in the back of the cop car until they forced a reason, being we got pulled over at 9pm for no reason, and they messed with us until 10pm, at which time they wrote us all curfew tickets. Oh yeah, and I need to edit that story. I facebooked it and one of my friends brought it to my attention he was the 4th guy with us, and he is Asian. So we weren't 4 white young punks.

[Phatscotty]

If someone is dancing behind you and you grab him and throw him on the ground, you are guilty of battery and will go to prison.

Land of the free.

Not anymore. We can't be free when held responsible for the problems and mistakes and bad luck of everybody else. Their problems are chained around our ankles now. Oh yeah, and cuz authority doesn't like being mocked and may push you away without an apology

[Phatscotty]

I can easily see how a lot of people who don't know what's going on behind their back might get the impression someone is trying to pick their pocket or some other nefarious activity, or just dancing behind a person who has a migraine headache, just got fired, lost a loved one, or intense menstrual cramps might just haul off and deck ya in the face, not to mention it really is an invasion of other people's space. There are a lot of people who try not to let people get close enough to them without first having a chance to gauge their intentions.....for example a conceal n carry person or an off duty/undercover cop. I get the fun holiday dancing thing, but it would be a lot better if this didn't screw with other people's business in a way they don't know what the heck your'e doing.

per the potential different police reactions, pretty sure anything no matter how innocent that requires sneaking up extremely close to people and trying not to be seen is gonna blip on a few radars. Or least least pick a better time than right now, but is there ever really a good time to sneak up on a police officer? Sounds like a common sense no-no

I understand the police in the first video stopping the dancing fool and asking him what he's doing. I don't understand pushing him initially and then tossing him to the ground without an apology. What I saw in the first video was a group of three or more men, wearing weapons, bullying someone who was by himself and had no weapons and had committed no crime. I fail to see how anyone could find the first video to be a reasonable police response from beginning to end.

I don't see that the police threw him at all. The video certainly doesn't show that...

I see a clip of someone with an obvious case of narcissistic personality disorder sneaking up and making furtive gestures behind a police officer. This is happening during a period when police are facing the greatest criticism against them and threat against their person's safety in several decades (probably since the 1970s), in a jurisdiction where people residing both inside and outside the city have attempted to kill officers in the preceding months, several attempts of which have been successful.

I've watched the above scene several times, and I can't see that the officers did actually "throw" him as the camera pans away from a complete view after the text stating "THEY THREW ME ON THE GROUND" is shown. I do see limited hand movement from the officers but nothing that indicates an excessive degree of force was used. Quite the contrary, their hands move straight forward at moderately slow speed, not in an underhand or overhand manner which would cause someone to fall down, or indicate pushing with undue force.

It's also interesting that the moment where he falls and hits the ground isn't shown, which begs the question of whether the man tripping is a dramatic over response to a limited physical contact made by the officers, or that he possibly fell on purpose because he intended to edit the video to show the police in a negative light from the beginning.

Is it possible that this person who is obviously making a video to garner attention for himself, who snuck up behind officers in uniform while making furtive gestures, all the while recording the incident during a period of heightened criticism and violence against police, had planned to elicit a response from those officers, and has edited the video in a dishonest or misleading fashion?

surely it's a possibility.

[2dimes]

I can't think this would have went any better for the guy in 1970 or 1980.
Possibly 1990 but probably worse in 2002.

I just think they shouldn't have shoved him at the end. I can't get too defensive either way. Definitely he picked the wrong group of cops.

Would this get any attention if the bullies were not uniformed police officers? What happened to the Police are our friends and we can trust them to help us?

At least they were quick to question him with no detainment sending him on his way.

[thegreekdog]

I can't find a reason to sympathize with the dancer either and that's not my goal here (again, a poor poster child for what's wrong with the police). Ultimately, the issue comes down to whether police should be held to a higher standard (I think they should) and should be held accountable for actions such as these, or more importantly, held accountable for causing serious injury or death to people. If police are held accountable more, I would expect incidents that result in death at the hands of police should decrease.

[2dimes]

I call your rational position and raise it with idealism. I would like to see the police maintain a high enough standard of behavior that "holding them accountable" is not required.

I'll go back to imagining a land where people are nice to weirdos and I get to fly more airplanes.

[mrswdk]

I would like to see a world in which the police are not needed anyway because no one commits crimes. Hooray for our new Utopia! y(^3^)y

[2dimes]

I'm in!

[Phatscotty]

I can't find a reason to sympathize with the dancer either and that's not my goal here (again, a poor poster child for what's wrong with the police). Ultimately, the issue comes down to whether police should be held to a higher standard (I think they should) and should be held accountable for actions such as these, or more importantly, held accountable for causing serious injury or death to people. If police are held accountable more, I would expect incidents that result in death at the hands of police should decrease.

Yeah. Clearly something needs to change. I get the feeling things are gonna go the other way though and it will get much worse.

[Phatscotty]

I call your rational position and raise it with idealism. I would like to see the police maintain a high enough standard of behavior that "holding them accountable" is not required.

I'll go back to imagining a land where people are nice to weirdos and I get to fly more airplanes.

I would like to see citizens no longer committing crimes. extra credit if we can get everyone to stop doing dumb stuff too.

Realistically I do expect far better from police than I do your average Joe, yet we are all still human.

[Lootifer]

Farkin hell, I have personally done that same gag a bunch of times, most of the time you end up getting the "victim" dancing with you, or at the least get a laugh.

I can guarantee that if i pulled off the same gag with a bunch of cops in NZ on xmas eve they would very likely have a laugh with me or at worse grin sardonically. They might have a wtf moment if ya got too close, but he didnt really get anywhere near the cop and clearly did it in the clear view of one of the other officers. To me he actions were a bit daft, sure, but in no way was he in the wrong, nor did he elicit the reaction he got.

Seriously chill the f*ck out america.

[Lootifer]

extra credit if we can get everyone to stop doing dumb stuff too.

What you might call dumb someone else might call fun. Freedom dictates that so long as the person having fun is not impinging on anyone elses rights then they are free to do what they want.

As a proponent of freedom you should be in support of someone who likes dancing randomly with strangers (and of course in support of those who tell him to "f*ck off you idiot"). I know I am.

(filming it however its dubious, there is that)

[thegreekdog]

I can't find a reason to sympathize with the dancer either and that's not my goal here (again, a poor poster child for what's wrong with the police). Ultimately, the issue comes down to whether police should be held to a higher standard (I think they should) and should be held accountable for actions such as these, or more importantly, held accountable for causing serious injury or death to people. If police are held accountable more, I would expect incidents that result in death at the hands of police should decrease.

Yeah. Clearly something needs to change. I get the feeling things are gonna go the other way though and it will get much worse.

I think it will blow over like most of these things tend to do without real significant change. Change tends to be gradual around here. I just watched the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on Allen Iverson's (former NBA star) arrest and conviction in Hampton, Virginia. It was fascinating.

[Phatscotty]

extra credit if we can get everyone to stop doing dumb stuff too.

What you might call dumb someone else might call fun. Freedom dictates that so long as the person having fun is not impinging on anyone elses rights then they are free to do what they want.

As a proponent of freedom you should be in support of someone who likes dancing randomly with strangers (and of course in support of those who tell him to "f*ck off you idiot"). I know I am.

(filming it however its dubious, there is that)

lol. Seems like you get it somewhat just on the other side of where I am. What one person might call fun, if that person only considers themselves, yes, I get it. Yet what we are talking about could easily be called 'fun at someone else's expense' also. But as I originally pointed out, is it still fun if they do that to someone who just lost their job and is fretting about how to put food on the table? someone with a migraine headache? Someone who has recently been pickpocketed? Someone with sever menstrual cramps? Someone who just lost a loved one? A group of cops pushed the the edge of paranoia because a pattern of people jumping from out of the woodwork ambush style with the sole purpose of random murder? What makes the assumption that other people are in the same mood they are in and want to do what they're doing? I suppose this comes with the latest wave of expecting everyone else to tolerate and embrace whatever they feel like doing in public at whatever time they choose. It's almost like they think the the dancer is the only person that matters.

Just sayin, ya gotta pick your spots. Choose poorly - poor results. Choose wisely - dancing behind someone unbeknownst to them because they are wearing a Santa hat.

Should the cops have shoved him, if they did? NO!
Would I expect to be pushed away by cos for doing that? Very Likely! I therefore deem it a poor decision, and I would choose not to approach paranoid armed policemen with tomfoolerish intentions.

[Phatscotty]

I can't find a reason to sympathize with the dancer either and that's not my goal here (again, a poor poster child for what's wrong with the police). Ultimately, the issue comes down to whether police should be held to a higher standard (I think they should) and should be held accountable for actions such as these, or more importantly, held accountable for causing serious injury or death to people. If police are held accountable more, I would expect incidents that result in death at the hands of police should decrease.

Yeah. Clearly something needs to change. I get the feeling things are gonna go the other way though and it will get much worse.

I think it will blow over like most of these things tend to do without real significant change. Change tends to be gradual around here. I just watched the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on Allen Iverson's (former NBA star) arrest and conviction in Hampton, Virginia. It was fascinating.

I don't think the calls for militarization and military equipment will blow over without real significant change. Perhaps that is what has already made the change.

[_sabotage_]

Prison Population per 100,000

Sweden 80
Japan 51
Denmark 73
Germany 78
France 103
England 148
Australia 143
Canada 118

US 707

What could be done to make the US as bad as England, instead of 5 times worse?

[KoolBak]

Both figures are less than a percent of the total.....mathematically it's trivial.

Real freedom spawns real idiots

Very interesting list...here's one that was neglected

Anguilla (United Kingdom) 543

What's up with that?

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ation_rate

[_sabotage_]

Anguilla

Population 13,500.

13.5% of 543 is 73 prisoners. What were you saying about mathematically trivial? I guess you were referring to the extent it affects their extended families, communities, politics when asking "what's up with that".

[KoolBak]

Sure...let's go with that!