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The true face of Hong Kong people

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The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:32 am

Will CNN cheerlead these latest protests in HK?

http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/pictures ... rists.html

Hong Kong Protesters Besiege and Harass Mainland Tourists

Image

February 15, following last weekend’s protest targeting mainland tourists [“independent” tourists not part of a tour group] and parallel traders in Hong Kong’s Tuen Mun district, yet another group has launched an anti-parallel trader protest in Sha Tin town, protesting there being too many mainland tourists negatively impacting the lives of residents. For a time, the protesters had altercations with mainland tourists, resulting in temporary disorder, police using pepper spray, and taking away multiple people. Photo is of the protesters besieging mainland tourists.

Image

Mainland tourists suffering demonstrator’s taunts/ridicule.

Image

Protesters chanting at mainland tourists, “Get lost/go back home!”, with some of them pointing fingers and exchanging insults with mainland tourists.


Parallel traders are people who buy goods in Hong Kong to trade on the mainland.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:35 am

Oh, this has been an issue for a long time. Mainland tourists have brought a great deal of business to Hong Kong, but there's quite a bit of animosity towards them. Here's an op-ed piece from the SCMP from 2012:

Imagine that the entire US population of 314 million can suddenly reach Manhattan in an hour or so by train, ferry or bus. They start streaming in by the millions with minimum immigration controls. The visitors - with different habits and a different dialect from the locals - buy up everything, from property and iPhones to daily necessities. They overwhelm the city's transport system, shops, streets and even campsites. Some shopping districts are virtually colonised. Squeezed out of their own city, the locals fight back.

Anyone who sees the Hong Kong backlash against the flood of mainlanders in any other way is missing the point. Nearly 300 million mainlanders now qualify for easy entry to Hong Kong. The backlash you're seeing - the mocking of mainlanders as locusts, the waving of British flags, and the fury over parallel goods traders - stems not from jealousy or loathing of mainlanders. It's an overdue eruption of fear and frustration that has festered for too long.

Don't confuse a fear of "mainlandisation" with a yearning for "de-Sinofication" or colonial days. That fear came to the fore when Beijing liaison official Li Gang overshadowed Leung Chun-ying at a hospital after the ferry tragedy. Why else would Hongkongers wonder who was really in charge here?

Quality of life suffers when an overcrowded city with an overstretched infrastructure has to, with no preparation, accommodate a "floating" population of extra millions. Ordinary people suffer when mainlanders buy up almost a quarter of Hong Kong homes. Resentment builds when property tycoons give the visitors priority and when even HSBC switches to simplified characters in some branches. This all breeds frustration, which leads to anger, which then explodes at times. Anyone who can't see this or sees it as "de-Sinofication" must have a poor grasp of the public mood.

Frankly, I am surprised at how many minds are muddled. Even Leung seems to have missed the point in his National Day speech. Of course it is essential and inevitable for Hong Kong to integrate with the mainland as he stressed. Hongkongers know that. But do you integrate by sending over a flood as happened in Tibet? Or do you do it in a sustainable and orderly way?

We need to look at the big picture but also see the little things, like tripping over the trolleys of parallel goods traders who rush to cross the Lo Wu checkpoint, missing MTR trains because mainland visitors block escalators with oversized luggage, having to wait for three trains before being able to board, and the mainland unnecessarily sending salvage boats to aid in the ferry collision rescue.

None of this is a big deal on its own, but it adds up to a ticking time bomb. Every Hongkonger I've asked has expressed frustration. They shake their heads when I ask if they want "de-Sinofication". They just see their city being changed too fast to something they fear. Don't forget most Hongkongers find the mainland system totally at odds with their own core values. We can acknowledge we have a potentially explosive situation or we can fool ourselves that it's just the growing pains of integration.


http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opi ... rustration

Then there's the rising cost of housing, with estimates of 25% of the housing in Hong Kong owned by mainland Chinese.

Chong says people want real democratic representation to address real-world problems, such as Hong Kong's crushing housing prices. He uses the tent he's sitting under — an area the size of a bedroom — to illustrate some of the city's extremes.

"This area, it can cost you HK$2 million," he said, the equivalent of $260,000 in the U.S. "So I think that is too crazy. ... We can't accept that kind of price."

Chong, who used to work as a real estate agent, says one reason prices are so high — and are about double what they were in 2007 — is that newly rich mainlanders snap up apartments as investments, and often raise eyebrows by making down payments with bags of cash.

"No Hong Kong people, no one would do things like that," says Chong, who now works as a nurse and provided medical care to protesters. "If our government do not stop it, we have no power to compete with them for our house."


http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014 ... s-protests

Or the fact that the landscape of Hong Kong is changing as small shops close up and LV and Armani shops open up in their place.

“The Chinese people coming to Hong Kong. Their culture is different. They go to the toilet in the streets,” says Arthur Pang, 44, standing on the edge of a group of protesters listening to speeches in Mong Kok, one of the movement’s three protest sites. Motioning to Nathan Road, a shopping street that the protesters have blocked with tents and makeshift barricades, he says, “There used to be little shops. Now it is all drug stores and jewelry shops. It’s a shopping mall for mainlanders.” His wife, standing next to him, leans over and says: “I doubt whether we are still in Hong Kong sometimes.”


http://qz.com/290228/the-uglier-side-of ... t-chinese/

It's putting a real strain on the city's resources and transforming it.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Tension between Hong Kongers and mainlanders has simmered ever since the former British colony’s return to China in 1997. For every Hong Konger who sees mainlanders as rude and uncouth, there is a mainlander who sees Hong Kongers as arrogant and bitter that their once-poor cousins to the north are now growing prosperous.
In 2007, China’s then-president Hu Jintao called for a new generation of Hong Kongers who love China.

But that generation never arrived. Over the last five years as Chinese tourists and immigrants to the city have grown exponentially, frustration toward mainlanders boils over more often—an average of 380 tour groups from China visited the city per day since the beginning of October.” Spot the mainlander” is something of a past time among some bloggers. Mainland Chinese have earned their own derogatory slur in Cantonese, wong chung, or “locusts” that critics say are ravaging Hong Kong. The term is also the subject of one popular satirical song, “Locust World” in which a man croons, “Invading across the Hong Kong border and taking our land, that’s your specialty..Locust Nation.”

Heated confrontations and physical fights are becoming more common—in February a group of protesters taunted Chinese shoppers, calling them them wong chung and shi na, a racial slur used to refer to the Chinese during World War II. Hong Kong protesters at a train station near the Chinese border in 2012 held up a sign that said “Chinese people eat shit,” prompting mainland Chinese travelers to attack them. Footage of a Chinese couple and a local wrestling over a memory card containing footage of the parents letting their son urinate on a sidewalk went viral this spring, leading Chinese netizens to declare a boycott of Hong Kong.

“Many Chinese students, we are fed up with the CCP. We understand their anger.”

Daily life in Hong Kong is at times uncomfortable for mainlanders living here. “My friends used to just stay three or four years, and then go back to China. I didn’t understand why until after I started working,” says Anika Wong, a 25-year-old English teacher, originally from Tianjin. Working and living away from home is already difficult enough. She’s not sure whether she has imagined or experienced discrimination in her three years here—a group of locals speaking in Cantonese near her suddenly bursting out in laughter or a rude waiter. “You get used to it,” she says.
Not all Hong Kong appear to have much sympathy for those who feel discriminated against: in a poll done by the South China Morning Post, 83% of those surveyed said no to the idea of outlawing discrimination based on immigration status or nationality—mainland Chinese are not covered by a Hong Kong law against discrimination and harassment of a person based on their race or ethnic origin.


The people in your picture were accused of being parallel traders, something that's actually illegal in Hong Kong but is carried out quite frequently anyway. Mainland Chinese buy up goods in Hong Kong, driving up the scarcity, then take them into mainland China and sell them off.

A magistrate at Fanling Court yesterday lashed out at parallel traders who smuggle baby formula across the border, before sentencing one of them to two weeks in jail. Principal Magistrate Bernadette Woo Huey Fang said the smuggling situation had "spiralled out of control".

She called the problem "unprecedented" and "shocking" and said that not only had the number of cases jumped, the quantity of materials involved had also skyrocketed.

Woo delivered her strongly worded comments minutes before she sentenced a clerk from mainland China to jail. The clerk, Wu Mingying, 30, admitted to sneaking 20.1kg of formula across the border at the Lok Ma Chau immigration checkpoint.

The amount of formula she carried was almost 12 times the 1.8kg limit, known as the two-tin rule, which the Hong Kong government introduced in 2013.

According to the Customs and Excise Department, 7,638 people have been convicted for smuggling formula since 2013, with some 45,500kg of the substance confiscated. Of those convicted, just 69 have been jailed.

The magistrate, who heard 24 similar cases yesterday, said the incidents were on the rise from fewer than 3,000 in 2013 to some 5,000 last year.


http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/ ... judge-says

Of course, the local shopkeepers don't have a problem with it. Money is one of the gods of Hong Kong, after all.

A tin of chicken bouillon powder sells for HK$15 ($1.94; £1.14).

A sign displaying the price also states each tin can be sold across the border in the mainland Chinese city of Shenzhen for HK$17, for a profit of HK$2.

On a recent weekend, a steady stream of buyers from mainland China, called parallel traders, crowded around the shops to purchase boxes of chicken powder and other items, including toothpaste and red wine, to sell for profit back home.


http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28093730

Still, these parallel traders don't deserve this kind of abuse. They're out to make a buck, just like everyone else, and for now, it's profitable to keep doing what they're doing, no matter how angry local Hong Kong people get over the practice.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby KoolBak on Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:40 am

Not in line with main thread, BUT...I have always wondered why so many Oriental folks wear those masks / respirators....there's a small secular private college very near me that is primarily middle eastern / oriental populace....see those kids wearing masks all the time (orientals only)....always assumed it was because they were paranoid about our air but after doing some research, I discovered that they apparently wear them to keep from spreading their own possible infections....essentially a courtesy.....seems very odd to me.....anyway....back to thread ;o)
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby muy_thaiguy on Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:39 pm

KoolBak wrote:Not in line with main thread, BUT...I have always wondered why so many Oriental folks wear those masks / respirators....there's a small secular private college very near me that is primarily middle eastern / oriental populace....see those kids wearing masks all the time (orientals only)....always assumed it was because they were paranoid about our air but after doing some research, I discovered that they apparently wear them to keep from spreading their own possible infections....essentially a courtesy.....seems very odd to me.....anyway....back to thread ;o)

Yeah, has to do with no getting sick. It can be magnified in some places, but that's what they masks are for.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:36 pm

I'm pretty sure I was talking about the mainlanders causing the last protests in the last thread. Specifically, I mentioned that they shit in the streets which the sophisticated HKers don't do.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:28 pm

I understand why tensions exist between Hong Kongers and mainland Chinese, but it's still strange to me that these two groups are both mostly Han Chinese, and both groups speak Putonghua and another dialect (although not all Chinese who live in villages in China speak Putonghua). The writing systems are a bit different, but simplified Chinese is derived from traditional Chinese, so they're not that different (they're both confusing as hell to me, though - much respect to foreigners who can read and speak Chinese).

People in Hong Kong talk about "going to China" on trips, as if they're not already in China. I'll be on the phone with my folks, talking about vacation plans, and I'll do the same thing.

"So where are you going, Mac?"

"Oh, just across the border into China."

"Don't you live in China?"

"Well . . ."

Identity is also an issue, too. It seems hard for Hong Kongers to identify themselves as simply Chinese:

Hongkongers' sense of Chinese identity has hit a record low, a Chinese University survey conducted during the Occupy Central protests found, as local student organisers plan their overtures to state leaders in Beijing.

Only 8.9 per cent of the 810 people polled last month identified themselves as "Chinese", according to the telephone survey carried out by the university's Centre for Communication and Public Opinion Survey.

That was one of four options presented to respondents of the poll, 26.8 per cent of whom chose "Hongkongers" as their identity. Forty-two per cent chose "Hongkongers but also Chinese" and 22.3 per cent went with "Chinese but also Hongkongers".


Professor Anthony Fung Ying-him, director of the university's school of journalism and communication, said people's low sense of Chinese identity stemmed from news of the Occupy Central movement and conflicts between Hong Kong and the mainland that have permeated social media.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... y?page=all

Hong Kongers refer to their dialect, Cantonese, as Chinese (zhong guo wa), not as Guang dong hua, literally Cantonese in Chinese. When I studied Mandarin (I wish I had worked harder )= ), Zhong guo hua referred to Mandarin. I guess it's like English - Americans usually don't refer to their language as American English, though it has some clear differences from British English.

As for the masks, the Japanese say they wear the masks to protect others, and here in Hong Kong, if you have a cold or a flu, it's standard to wear a mask, but during SARS and bird flu, everyone wore masks. I've looked at different studies regarding whether wearing masks prevents someone from becoming infected, and some studies say it doesn't, but others indicate a correlation between wearing a mask and a lower rate of infection. Usually at clinics and hospitals, the nurses, receptionists, and doctors all wear masks, although specialists usually don't. It took a little time to get used to it.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:58 am

Some of the complaints made in your first post are golden. My favorite was:

the mainland unnecessarily sending salvage boats to aid in the ferry collision rescue.


How dare anyone from the mainland try to help HK during a crisis :lol:
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:23 am

The whole self-identity thing you mentioned is bizarre. I stopped through HK for a few days recently (too busy to call you while I was there I'm afraid 8) ) and had dinner with a couple of my old classmates one night. The HK guys were incredibly sniffy about mainlanders - even the guy who is actually a mainlander himself, but just happens to have grown up in HK. The way they talked it's like they come from a different country (one which they apparently feel is vastly superior).

I get that until 1997 Hong Kong was a European colony and not an integrated part of China, but Hong Kong is now a Chinese city and acting like it isn't is just weird.

Hong Kongers refer to their dialect, Cantonese, as Chinese (zhong guo wa), not as Guang dong hua, literally Cantonese in Chinese. When I studied Mandarin (I wish I had worked harder )= ), Zhong guo hua referred to Mandarin. I guess it's like English - Americans usually don't refer to their language as American English, though it has some clear differences from British English.


That's funny. Usually people in Beijing refer to Cantonese as Guangdonghua, the subtext of which would be that it is the Guangdong dialect and not a separate language.

What do HKers call 'Mandarin' then?
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:55 am

Usually, people use the term Putonghua for Mandarin.

I found a Reuters video that talks about the incident you mentioned in the first post: http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/02/23 ... =363273686

I agree, though, that this whole thing seems ugly, at least from an outsider's point of view. I was having a discussion today with some students, mostly HK kids, and several were vocal in their opinion that mainlanders should stay out of Hong Kong altogether. One of the two students from mainland China was crying by the end of it. On the other hand, many HK students traveled to mainland China to visit family over the break. It's a strange situation.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby persianempire on Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:25 am

When is this Chinese on Chinese crime going to stop??
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:42 am

macbone wrote:I was having a discussion today with some students, mostly HK kids, and several were vocal in their opinion that mainlanders should stay out of Hong Kong altogether. One of the two students from mainland China was crying by the end of it.


Younger HKers really are full of shit.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:25 am

mrswdk wrote:
macbone wrote:I was having a discussion today with some students, mostly HK kids, and several were vocal in their opinion that mainlanders should stay out of Hong Kong altogether. One of the two students from mainland China was crying by the end of it.


People really are full of shit.

Fixed.


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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:15 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
macbone wrote:I was having a discussion today with some students, mostly HK kids, and several were vocal in their opinion that mainlanders should stay out of Hong Kong altogether. One of the two students from mainland China was crying by the end of it.


People really are full of shit.

Fixed.


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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby notyou2 on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:45 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
KoolBak wrote:Not in line with main thread, BUT...I have always wondered why so many Oriental folks wear those masks / respirators....there's a small secular private college very near me that is primarily middle eastern / oriental populace....see those kids wearing masks all the time (orientals only)....always assumed it was because they were paranoid about our air but after doing some research, I discovered that they apparently wear them to keep from spreading their own possible infections....essentially a courtesy.....seems very odd to me.....anyway....back to thread ;o)

Yeah, has to do with no getting sick. It can be magnified in some places, but that's what they masks are for.


It's not because they're bandits?
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby KoolBak on Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:16 pm

:lol:
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby muy_thaiguy on Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:43 pm

notyou2 wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
KoolBak wrote:Not in line with main thread, BUT...I have always wondered why so many Oriental folks wear those masks / respirators....there's a small secular private college very near me that is primarily middle eastern / oriental populace....see those kids wearing masks all the time (orientals only)....always assumed it was because they were paranoid about our air but after doing some research, I discovered that they apparently wear them to keep from spreading their own possible infections....essentially a courtesy.....seems very odd to me.....anyway....back to thread ;o)

Yeah, has to do with no getting sick. It can be magnified in some places, but that's what they masks are for.


It's not because they're bandits?

Only in old Chinese Westerns, where the Chinese sheriff has a handlebar mustache, a tiny little town that normally would fit a few hundred has 10,000 people, and instead of whiskey, it's rice wine.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:41 pm

notyou2 wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
KoolBak wrote:Not in line with main thread, BUT...I have always wondered why so many Oriental folks wear those masks / respirators....there's a small secular private college very near me that is primarily middle eastern / oriental populace....see those kids wearing masks all the time (orientals only)....always assumed it was because they were paranoid about our air but after doing some research, I discovered that they apparently wear them to keep from spreading their own possible infections....essentially a courtesy.....seems very odd to me.....anyway....back to thread ;o)

Yeah, has to do with no getting sick. It can be magnified in some places, but that's what they masks are for.


It's not because they're bandits?


I'm pretty sure that the people in the photos in this thread are just wearing masks to hide their identities.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:12 pm

On the Scene – Mainland Tourist Besieged in Hong Kong, Little Girl Frightened into Tears Comforted by Passerby

A mother and daughter pair of mainland tourists were besieged by a number of Hong Kong youths, the child frightened into crying nonstop. The young woman [mother] at one point says, “We’re all Chinese”, only to get a fierce reaction from the Hong Kong youths, snarling: “We’re not Chinese!!”

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http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/videos/h ... rists.html
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:52 am

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Holy crap, look at this guy! If I were four years old, I'd be sobbing, too!

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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby mrswdk on Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:33 am

Self-immolations are not a protest at Tibet's status as part of the PRC.

And yeah, that guy is balling pretty hard lool.
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:24 am

So here's the video:



The protestors are accusing this woman of being a parallel trader. It's part of their switch in strategy to protesting the parallel traders in Hong Kong. I really don't see how this can be effective.

Here's plenty more about the 137 Tibets who have immolated themselves since 2009 in protest of the PRC's continued occupation of Tibet: http://www.savetibet.org/resources/fact ... -tibetans/

But of course, the Central Government doesn't seem to care.

IN DELHI this week the Indian authorities rolled out the red carpet for leaders of its fellow BRICS, a group of emerging economies that also includes Brazil, Russia, China and South Africa. Security officials were nervous. On March 26th a Tibetan had set himself on fire (see picture) near India's parliament during a protest against Chinese rule in Tibet. The man died two days later. India did not want China's President, Hu Jintao, to be embarrassed by such displays.

The self-immolation in Delhi was not the first act of its kind by a Tibetan outside China. In 1998 another man died after setting himself on fire in Delhi. But an unprecedented recent wave of some 30 self-immolations by Tibetans inside China, many of whom died, has made Chinese officials anxious. In November two other Tibetans suffered relatively minor injuries after setting fire to themselves outside Chinese embassies in Delhi and Kathmandu.

But China does not seem worried that the recent unrest in Tibet might derail its diplomacy. And it has good reason not to be too concerned. Four years ago China came under international pressure when a series of protests and riots swept across the Tibetan plateau. That outbreak coincided with Chinese preparations to stage the Olympic Games in August 2008, a period when international attention was unusually focused on China's human-rights record. The unrest erupted before the global financial crisis made Western leaders more than usually eager to co-operate with China rather than confront it over internal issues such as Tibet.


http://www.economist.com/node/21551540
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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:05 am

I've read about the immolations over the years. The NY Times also just recently had an articled on the Dalai Lama and China's preference to select the new spiritual leader, demanding there be an afterlife: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/world ... rlife.html


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Re: The true face of Hong Kong people

Postby macbone on Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:24 am

Reincarnate or else!
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